Rebuild or Retool?
Old 01-16-2009, 11:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
dogbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Representing:
Default Rebuild or Retool?

As far as I can tell, there are only two ways we can go from here.

Rebuild: This would include trading Bosh right now to get something of value for him (young players and draft picks) before he leaves in 2010 (which is looking inevitable right now). In this scenario, you could also hold onto JO for the next 2 years until he expires, leaving a huge amount of money avaialble for the 2010 offseason. The only players left on the team in this situation would be Bargnani, Calderon (though he could be traded, too), Ukic, and Jawai (and also JO for the next season and a half). The benefits of this would finally be seeing what Bargnani could do as a full-time option. This method also carries the higher ceiling of the two options. Yes, they'd probably have to lose a lot for the next two seasons (if not longer), but with a base of Bargnani, Calderon, the young players/draft picks they get out of Bosh, and a huge amount of cap space, there might be potential to be a championship contender at some point in the next 4-5 years.

Retool: Keep Bosh for the next 2 years with the hope that he'll stay in Toronto past 2010. This would include trading JO right now for a SG/SF (Josh Howard/Shawn Marion) to improve the team in the short-term. The ceiling of this method is smaller, but atleast they'll have a chance to be a playoff team for the next 2 seasons, and may win a series as well. Next year's starting lineup would probably look something like this: PG-Calderon SG-Delfino SF-Howard PF-Bosh C-Bargnani. Maybe a 45-50 win team in the East?

Bosh would then decide to leave (freeing us up to spend money on another franchise player) or stay past 2010 (something I consider to be unlikely).


So which option would you prefer? I'm partial to option 1, because I feel that's the only real way to ever make the Raptors a true contender in the foreseeable future.
dogbert is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,312
Representing:
Default

Bosh is going to stay here, find him a real guard trading JO + w/e except AB and Calde (unless a Vet PG is in the deal).
Ugo Ferst is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

Bosh pulls a T-Mac, guaranteed.
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
dogbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
Bosh is going to stay here, find him a real guard trading JO + w/e except AB and Calde (unless a Vet PG is in the deal).
What possible reason could Bosh have to stay here? This really isn't his home, it's Canada (less attention paid to him by American media), and the Raptors aren't very good.
dogbert is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,225
Representing:
Default

Trades have to be made, this team has slowly been losing it's identity without Sam.
bjjs is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,312
Representing:
Default

It's pretty simple, he likes it here, he respects BC, he knows we are far from a finished product and we have assets to move, the fans love him here (except the fools that want too much), he likely wont get to be a franchise player anywhere else, and who are all these teams willing to offer him Max? Name a few? We can still offer more, and i dont think theres many teams out there that want him as the number 1 option. Im pretty confident that he will resign in the off season in fact, i dont want to say why because nobody will believe me and i hate argueing stuff like that, but im pretty sure he will stay Get him a real guard and nobody will remember all this crap, he shouldnt be the main option in late game situations.
Ugo Ferst is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
p2thaizarts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 152
Representing:
Default

Yeah nevermind me...
p2thaizarts is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
dogbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Representing:
Default

I've become convinced that Bosh can't be a #1 option for a championship contender, anyway, so I'm not sure why the Raptors would want him. We'd just be treading water for the next few years if he decides to stay unless Bargnani emerges as a #1, so I'd really like to see a trade.
dogbert is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

[T.O.P]
 
jeaxz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 391
Representing:
Default

uhh we can bring back VC? Even though i never really watched ball during his Reign and destruction, after watching NBA journey: CB4, it seemed that VC was a good guy. I dunno. Maybe VC changed???

I always imagined that VC coming back and being a secondary player or something.

W/e everyone thinks i am high or something.

Anyway, i think its best to rebuild with AB and the other dudes.
jeaxz is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
dogbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by p2thaizarts View Post
Yeah nevermind me...
Come over to your point of view? WTF? I've been wanting to trade Bosh and rebuild for nearly a year now.
dogbert is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,312
Representing:
Default

Glad to see more then 1 person doesnt think things thru... what do you really think you can get for Bosh anywhere near a 24/9 guy he is? Who knowing his contract situation is giving up real young talent or high draft picks for him? We will get fleeced if we move him, doublely so since we are tanking in the standings and ppl will percieve it as a desperation trade, then we will force AB to be the "man" yet all the AB lovers dont like to mention the fact he almost never creates off the dribble and would be much worse as late game guy then Bosh is.... almost no team goes to big men for game winners, there is a reason for that!!

Lets get fleeced for Bosh just in case he wont resign.... lets do it now!! Desperation style, the sign of a good GM!!! Lets not wait to see if he resigns in the offseason, then go from there, lets trade him NOW!!!
Ugo Ferst is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
dogbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaxz View Post
uhh we can bring back VC? Even though i never really watched ball during his Reign and destruction, after watching NBA journey: CB4, it seemed that VC was a good guy. I dunno. Maybe VC changed???

I always imagined that VC coming back and being a secondary player or something.

W/e everyone thinks i am high or something.

Anyway, i think its best to rebuild with AB and the other dudes.
Are you high?
dogbert is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
dogbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
Glad to see more then 1 person doesnt think things thru... what do you really think you can get for Bosh anywhere near a 24/9 guy he is?
More than you'll get when he leaves us in 2 years (ie. nothing).

Quote:
Who knowing his contract situation is giving up real young talent or high draft picks for him? We will get fleeced if we move him, doublely so since we are tanking in the standings and ppl will percieve it as a desperation trade, then we will force AB to be the "man" yet all the AB lovers dont like to mention the fact he almost never creates off the dribble and would be much worse as late game guy then Bosh is.... almost no team goes to big men for game winners, there is a reason for that!!
Obviously, you likely won't get fair value for Bosh. That isn't the point. The point is to get something, and stop being a treadmill, mediocre team.

And who here is an "AB lover?" Certainly not me. I'm as skeptical as anybody about his future success.

Quote:
Lets get fleeced for Bosh just in case he wont resign.... lets do it now!! Desperation style, the sign of a good GM!!! Lets not wait to see if he resigns in the offseason, then go from there, lets trade him NOW!!!
No, desperation would be trading Jermaine O'Neal for a short-term solution in Josh Howard/Shawn Marion to try to get Chris Bosh to stay. At best, they'll make the playoffs in the East, and MAYBE win one round. That isn't any sort of a solution. It's the same damn mediocrity we've been going through for this franchise's entire history.
dogbert is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,312
Representing:
Default

I would rather lose Bosh in the biggest FA market ever will tons of $ to spend and get a player there then get ripped off for him with possibily some worse contracts. Im open minded so if perhaps a trade was mentioned and it was great i would go for it, im not saying it's not possible, but a generic "lets trade Bosh for whatever we can get" isnt flying well with me.

How about getting Bosh a real guard for the 1st time since he was a rookie?? Then seeing what he can do? Perhaps some of the critisms are misdirected?
Ugo Ferst is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
dogbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
I would rather lose Bosh in the biggest FA market ever will tons of $ to spend and get a player there then get ripped off for him with possibily some worse contracts. Im open minded so if perhaps a trade was mentioned and it was great i would go for it, im not saying it's not possible, but a generic "lets trade Bosh for whatever we can get" isnt flying well with me.
This doesn't make any sense. The Raptors will still have a massive amount of money for the 2010 free agency with JO's expiring contract.

So if they rebuild they'll have the cap space for that great free agency period (they could even re-sign Bosh), in addition whatever they get for Bosh.

If they keep Bosh, and he leaves, they'll just have the cap space and nothing else.
dogbert is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,312
Representing:
Default

I think we could get more in the FA market in value then we could get trading him, it makes sense to me. Doesnt really matter because i think he will resign, we just need to get the right players around him and stop expecting things from him that no other teams expect from their bigs.
Ugo Ferst is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
dogbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
I think we could get more in the FA market in value then we could get trading him, it makes sense to me.
Did you even read my post? They'll still have the necessary cash to sign anybody they want, even if they trade Bosh.
dogbert is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
the only guy who thinks Terrence Ross will be an all-star

Senior Member
 
The MVP of West Hollywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,129
Representing:
Default

Actually, I think the path we're on is just fine. We're not that far off from being really really good actually.

I think we're gonna get a SF one way or the other from the JO contract. It'll either be Josh Howard (who I feel very comfortable with going forward), or we get the Marion contract and turn that into Marvin Williams or Lamar Odom this summer, hopefully.

Then we have a lottery pick.

So we're looking at a core of
Jose and Ukic
?
Howard or Odom or Williams
Bosh
Bargnani

+ top 10 pick

What's wrong with that again? We'd have one of the most set frontcourts in the league and the Jose/Ukic thing has potential. Either Jose is as good as his early 2008 form and we rock, or Ukic is good enough to start in a Rondo like role and we can trade Jose for a great SG. If our lottery pick doesn't turn out to be that guy anyways.

A month ago when Bargs was dead I probably would've agreed blowing up is a viable option. But with his emergence things completley turn around. The Bosh/Bargnani frontcourt has potential to really be something, there's no fucking way I'm giving that up for the lottery

PS if Bargnani is good enough to be a #1 then Bosh won't be in his way. Bargs isn't quite ready for that pressure yet anyways though, not till at least next year. Still needs to work on stuff like screens, posting up, rebounding, yada yada

Last edited by The MVP of West Hollywood; 01-17-2009 at 12:01 AM.
The MVP of West Hollywood is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009, 12:00 AM   #19 (permalink)
Masai Ujiri

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,775
Representing:
Default

Rondo is a nice defender. Is Roko there yet?
He also has 3 future hall of famers to work with. (Boo..)
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009, 12:01 AM   #20 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
dogbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Representing:
Default

You think Jose, ?, Odom, Bosh, and Bargnani is a "really good team?"

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I mean it would be a decent enough team, but at best, that's still 4th in the East, behind the Celtics, Cavs, and Magic, and behind several other West teams. We wouldn't be championship contenders at all if we were to "retool" like that.
dogbert is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RealGM: A Quick Rebuild Dr. J. Naismith Toronto Raptors 21 07-17-2009 09:23 AM
Rebuild from the ground up dmbphan041 Toronto Raptors 23 12-16-2008 08:12 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24