The Rebounding Dilemma
Old 11-19-2009, 12:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I posted this in another thread but decided its worthy of its own dedicated thread. Below you will see three teams compared using rebounds per minute.

Rebounds per minute = total rebounds by a player/Total minutes played by a player.

This shows the rate at which a player rebounds the ball. Its the most fair comparison I can think to use. I have selected the Raptors, the NBA Champs and the rebounding leader of 2009/2010 to date. All calculations are based on stats from the 2009/2010 regular season to date. The stat source used was YahooSports.com:

Toronto Raptors, ranked 19th in rebounding
Name Rebounds/Minute
Pops Mensah-Bonsu 0.571428571
Chris Bosh 0.341067285
Amir Johnson 0.294416244
Rasho Nesterovic 0.275862069
Patrick O'Bryant 0.2
Andrea Bargnani 0.180929095
DeMar DeRozan 0.158139535
Antoine Wright 0.144230769
Hedo Turkoglu 0.138381201
Sonny Weems 0.137254902
Marco Belinelli 0.07860262
Jarrett Jack 0.071684588
Jose Calderon 0.071428571
Marcus Banks 0
Team 0.171249565

L.A. Lakers, ranked 6th in rebounding
Name Rebounds/Minute
DJ Mbenga 0.351851852
Andrew Bynum 0.299435028
Lamar Odom 0.250645995
Josh Powell 0.185897436
Sasha Vujacic 0.179775281
Luke Walton 0.157894737
Adam Morrison 0.153846154
Ron Artest 0.143229167
Jordan Farmar 0.135135135
Kobe Bryant 0.126491647
Shannon Brown 0.108571429
Derek Fisher 0.093645485
Team 0.181040892

Milwaukee Bucks, ranked 1st in rebounding
Name Rebounds/Minute
Ersan Ilyasova 0.322404372
Dan Gadzuric 0.295454545
Andrew Bogut 0.274834437
Kurt Thomas 0.264705882
Hakim Warrick 0.22705314
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute 0.215517241
Jodie Meeks 0.17
Carlos Delfino 0.164772727
Michael Redd 0.14516129
Brandon Jennings 0.134185304
Charlie Bell 0.120300752
Luke Ridnour 0.089473684
Roko Ukic 0
Team 0.19221968

As you can see there are two glaring differences between the Raptors and these two teams. First, at the center spot both the Lakers' and Bucks' starting centers are rebounding at a much higher rate than Bargnani. Second the point guards on both the Lakers and Bucks are rebounding at a much higher rate than Jack and Calderon.

Bargnani's difference can be partially explain by his unsual role when compare to the starting centers of the Lakers' and Bucks'. Both the Lakers and Bucks have centers who typically stay close to the basket on both ends of the court. Bargnani however is used on the perimeter and mid range on offense. As a result his numbers are skewed a little due to having less opportunities to get rebounds.

Calderon and Jack, when compared to the Bucks and Lakers, cannot be explained so easily. The Raptors as a whole rebound at a lower rate than the Lakers and Bucks. As such one one think that the Raptors guards would have more opportunities at rebounds than the guards on the Lakers and Bucks. This assumption does not seems jive with the rates however...

The Bucks rank 11th in PPG allowed per game. The Lakers rank 14th and the Raptors rank 28th.

Source: NBA Stats - CBSSports.com

It is obvious based on this that teams are scoring on the Raptors with a higher rate efficiency than on the Bucks or Lakers. As such there would be less rebounds but I am unsure if this can explain the lack of rebounding at the guard spot...
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Nothing shocking here unfortunately.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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.2 behind San Antonio

ahead of Orlando, Cleveland, Boston, Nuggets, Heat, Detroit
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Play Amir Johnson more. He brings energy, shot blocking, and rebounding. With Amir and Bosh, Raptors always seem to get on a run.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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With Evans we'd be more in the middle of the league 14-16th in the league. And by the new year i say we're in that area.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
With Evans we'd be more in the middle of the league 14-16th in the league. And by the new year i say we're in that area.
ya, what he said
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
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With Evans we'd be more in the middle of the league 14-16th in the league. And by the new year i say we're in that area.
So how many minutes will evans play? Where would he play on the floor? and who would be losing minutes?
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think Rasho, Johnson, and Wright.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Who needs Evans now when we have Amir playing so well? Screw Evans, he should only be playing vs certain matchups. Amir is the man in the middle off the bench.

What we need is to get Turk to 100% and get his ass on the boards again avging 5+ per game, and to play Demar more because he goes for the boards. Enough of the time restriction bullshit.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thriller92 View Post
Who needs Evans now when we have Amir playing so well? Screw Evans, he should only be playing vs certain matchups. Amir is the man in the middle off the bench.

What we need is to get Turk to 100% and get his ass on the boards again avging 5+ per game, and to play Demar more because he goes for the boards. Enough of the time restriction bullshit.
I feel Demarr is a liabilty at times on the floor. His defensives awareness is pretty low now and wouldn't dream of giving him more mores.


As for Amir to keep his minutes I'm glad you said that. It just disproves any theory that the Raptors will be a better team when Evans is back.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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team stats after 10 games are not very relevant
if we stay 19th in rebounding, that would be ok - many here were fearing much worse.

and rebounds per minute is a not a great stat. Who cares if mbenga can pull a rebound every 3 minute if he's so bad that he only gets 5 minutes a game.

And don't kid yourself, he main and almost only issue with this team is defense, which is worse than anybody thought. What's puzzling is that almost every game we have a half where we defend very poorly, and a half where we are decent to good. LAst night we were awful in the first 15 minutes of play, and decent in the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half. Very strange.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Demar should change his name to Defer cause that's all he ever does...
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
team stats after 10 games are not very relevant
if we stay 19th in rebounding, that would be ok - many here were fearing much worse.

and rebounds per minute is a not a great stat. Who cares if mbenga can pull a rebound every 3 minute if he's so bad that he only gets 5 minutes a game.

And don't kid yourself, he main and almost only issue with this team is defense, which is worse than anybody thought. What's puzzling is that almost every game we have a half where we defend very poorly, and a half where we are decent to good. LAst night we were awful in the first 15 minutes of play, and decent in the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half. Very strange.

Average teams do that to you. THey make you think they are really good and just drop a cannon on you after.

When a guy like bellinelli is one of your better wing defenders you have problems
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Demar should change his name to Defer cause that's all he ever does...
but he has one dynamite basketball mind
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Honestly Thrills... if anyone's earning more time right now (at the SG spot) it's Belli.

DD has shown some great stuff... but at the end of the day he's still a rook. And rooks make mistakes. He's being brought along pretty well so far I think.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Honestly Thrills... if anyone's earning more time right now (at the SG spot) it's Belli.

DD has shown some great stuff... but at the end of the day he's still a rook. And rooks make mistakes. He's being brought along pretty well so far I think.
Just trying to disprove the theroy of Reggie Evans as well. He won't really revolutionize this team they are what they are.

As for Dero you may say he is coming around I think to what I see. I see a kid who is a liability at D and isn't a scorer. Yes he may show a nose for the ball for weakside putbacks and the odd board but to me I don't think its enough. He shows great Bball IQ but I think Julius James put it best......

Defer Derozan is a great name and if their is a fan club starting up I'll be joining.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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im telling u guys we should get ersan illayasova he is so good
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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maybe if we trade for the all the top 5 rebounders in the league, every guy who rebounds over 9 per we as a team would average at least 65 per game.
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Just trying to disprove the theroy of Reggie Evans as well. He won't really revolutionize this team they are what they are.

As for Dero you may say he is coming around I think to what I see. I see a kid who is a liability at D and isn't a scorer. Yes he may show a nose for the ball for weakside putbacks and the odd board but to me I don't think its enough. He shows great Bball IQ but I think Julius James put it best......

Defer Derozan is a great name and if their is a fan club starting up I'll be joining.
I don't have a problem with him deferring.... in fact, I think that he SHOULD since he's a rook and all. I'd much rather see him take his time and not force his game than try to jack 20 shots/gm. For the most part he takes pretty good shots and gives an honest effort. And he seems to be catching on faster than everyone's favourite whipping boy Joey Graham ever did.

Give him time.
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