The reason why the Raptors can't find success
Old 03-14-2010, 08:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default The reason why the Raptors can't find success

I think everyone can agree that building an NBA team is a precarious process: one wrong move can set the victory parade back years. I also believe, however, that the necessary moves to build a good team are not difficult to figure out. The blueprint for a contender is at every GM's perusal. All one has to do is look at other top teams and see how they've gotten to where they are.

One of the team's top two players must be a guard/wing who can pass and consistently get to the rim. In addition to this, you also need either a dominant big man or a defensive stopper in the post. (Wade/Shaq, Kobe/Shaq, Kobe/Gasol, Parker-Ginobili/Duncan, Lebron/Varejao) Next, you need at least a couple of guys that can shoot the three very well, and, depending on the relative skill of the core duo/trio, you can fill out the rest of the roster with cheap role players, vets, and energy guys. Ideally, a couple of those role players would be defensive specialists.

This is a very simple formula, yet one that does not fail to produce results. And one that Toronto has only put together once over its 15 years in this league. Indeed, their best period came when they had one of the best slashing guards in the league in Vince Carter and a tough frontcourt presence in Antonio Davis. For reasons known to all of us, it didn't work out in the end.

The Turkoglu signing was supposed to give us that slashing/passing wing we needed. Combined with not one, but two excellent frontcourt players, this season's forecast looked to be brighter than most dared believe. But Hedo's playing with little motivation or intensity, and is revealing to be little more than a deadweight. One can only hope he is saving his best stuff for the playoffs, if the Raps even make it there.

My point is, a really good slashing guard/forward or PG is the single most crucial player to have for a prospective contender. Look at Miami: they're barely over .500, but if Wade's playing, they have a legitimate chance against any team in the NBA. If you don't have a player like that, one around which your offense can completely revolve, who can truly create offense out of nothing, who can take over a game, you must rely on the team as a whole to perform at a high level. Unfortunately, as Toronto has shown us this season, this happens intermittently at best. Thus, if the Raps once again go nowhere in the playoffs this season, Colangelo must do what it takes to get a player such as the one I described above in Toronto. And if Bosh or Bargnani must be sacrificed to get it, so be it. I believe the Raptors would be a better team with a wing who's 3/4 as good as Bosh, than with Bosh.

And, if you've taken the time to read the entirety of my rambling post, you'll know that's not a knock on Bosh.
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Old 03-14-2010, 08:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I would just say it cause of our commentators.
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Old 03-14-2010, 08:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
losing faith in Rap's fan base

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Varejao?

funny
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Old 03-14-2010, 09:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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Ooooh, good! Me likes to to write long too.

Oddly enough, I think the gamble was that Derozan was that guy and that we'd all see enough flashes to say that he is not just a glorified Joey Graham.

They're still selling hope around here, and it's not hopeless, but if you take a good look:

1) We can't really make excuses about DD learning because all rookies are learning and many seem to be leaping ahead of him. He's not the answer there and who knows when he will be.

2) Dwight Howard covers up a lot on offense, defense, and rebounding AND allows guys to slack off a bit on defense so that they have more in the tank on offense. So you can't concern yourself too much about what Turk did in Orlando. He's not in Orlando. Maybe this is just who he is.

3) They obviously thought that the rest of the lineup would be so potent that whoever was at the 2 would only need to play strong defense and not contribute a whole lot more. But how many teams does that work out for?

4) As usual, who can really say that Bargnani has finally gotten his game together. Every year I say, "Is this the year he's going to go 20 and 10?" He's capable of it and if he did, this team would be a conundrum to play. Five years from now, we could be talking about flashes of greatness for 10 games, followed by 15 games of mediocre play.

5) I thought having 2 capable point guards would leave the point guards on other teams run ragged by the end of the game. Instead, I'm hoping Weems or Amir are in the game instead of Jose in there saying "Ole!" as he's blown right by.

It would be nice to say it's just one problem because that would be easier to fix.
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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i think DD can be the guy...he needs to be more of a focal point to develop his game.

the fact that he's the last option on the floor doesn't help him develop the one on one skills necessary for a wing to be successful in this league.

In the offseason, i hope he works on his dribble and work on his jumper
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
playoffs please dont end

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I think a better coach would use the roster we have better.
- Jack/Jose combination is mind boggling.
- How about "three playmaker combo"?
- Giving players playing time out of respect?
- Third quarter curse?
- NOT giving time to young energy guys?

Anyhow this losing streak is big. After all-star breal we didnt win a single game, really. NJN, WAS and NYK
Thats 0-10
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
likes the consistency in the colangelo built raptors

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the fact that our perimeter players get owned every game doesn't help

hell Amir is known for his defense and he looks like a horrible defender playing with these guys, now look at bosh, and Bargs is just exposed with these guys

the fact is outside of bosh,amir, and bargs, the whole team needs to be traded
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Bargs should go too. Im tired of his fuckin 3-Pointshots. Im tired of his lack of effort and energy. Hes a pussy. Hes not fighting under the basket. Hes doin nothing the last few games.

Yes he improved this season. But he get smacked by every tough guy hes playin against. Camby? Isnt that great anymore. He lacks speed. Bargs has that speed. But what Andrea did? HE SHOT 3--POINTERS!
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Old 03-15-2010, 10:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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This team is instantly better without Bargnani. That's how I feel right now. The guy doesn't compete. How can a team win when their 7-footer doesn't compete every night? It's a tragedy.
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
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This team is instantly better without Bargnani. That's how I feel right now. The guy doesn't compete. How can a team win when their 7-footer doesn't compete every night? It's a tragedy.
how i feel about Bosh.

Trade him and the team is instantly better. Bargs will be fine if Mr. Precious isnt playing beside him and the team gets a man to play the PF spot.

Hedo is shit, bad signing, knew it would be.

DD is alright, might get a bit better.

Jack is a bum.
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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how i feel about Bosh.

Trade him and the team is instantly better. Bargs will be fine if Mr. Precious isnt playing beside him and the team gets a man to play the PF spot.

Hedo is shit, bad signing, knew it would be.

DD is alright, might get a bit better.

Jack is a bum.
And that's what makes me think you can only be a hating troll. Bosh has fought through injury and the flu to at least have some impact. Bargnani gave us shrinkage and somehow that is all on Bosh. Give it up.

It's possible we could be better with Bosh replaced by a sturdier player that is not going to have injury issues every season. But I still don't hold out any hope for the team if Bargnani is in the mix.
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Nobody seems to get it Hedo is a facilitator

Problem is he is a facilitator for the other team with his bad passes, butter fingers and lack of effort/hustle/energy.

B.C. really can't be blamed for this, nobody thought this guy would be this horrid. I mean he is touted as a facilitator and a play maker and a ball handler. Well we have seen exactly the opposite in Toronto. Derozan handles the ball better then butter finger Hedo.

The lack of conditioning, effort, hustle and energy that is all on Hedo, that is a personal choice you make as a player in any sport, no coach or gm can make that for you. Considering the fukin contract he got you would think he would at least have the decency to show up in proper condition for training camp. Also when do you ever see that guy dive for a ball, there was a point in last night's game where he could have secured the rebound if he had dived, but lack of hustle/effort again.

Seriously this guy is actually a liability on the floor. He shouldn't start and shouldn't finish games until he get's his shit together. He has had a whole season and has produced shit, I for one ain't buying anymore excuses. I think his teammates are starting to get pissed at him too.

Ball, you don't fukin deserve it.
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Old 03-15-2010, 12:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Nobody seems to get it Hedo is a facilitator

Problem is he is a facilitator for the other team with his bad passes, butter fingers and lack of effort/hustle/energy.

B.C. really can't be blamed for this, nobody thought this guy would be this horrid. I mean he is touted as a facilitator and a play maker and a ball handler. Well we have seen exactly the opposite in Toronto. Derozan handles the ball better then butter finger Hedo.

The lack of conditioning, effort, hustle and energy that is all on Hedo, that is a personal choice you make as a player in any sport, no coach or gm can make that for you. Considering the fukin contract he got you would think he would at least have the decency to show up in proper condition for training camp. Also when do you ever see that guy dive for a ball, there was a point in last night's game where he could have secured the rebound if he had dived, but lack of hustle/effort again.

Seriously this guy is actually a liability on the floor. He shouldn't start and shouldn't finish games until he get's his shit together. He has had a whole season and has produced shit, I for one ain't buying anymore excuses. I think his teammates are starting to get pissed at him too.

Ball, you don't fukin deserve it.
Yep - I think I'd rather see Bosh be more of a playmaker, or see Beli get more of a burn. Hedo really ends up being a wrench in the gears too often.
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Old 03-15-2010, 12:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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We keep going after players who are passive nice guys. The team although more athletic than last year is still methodically slow for the most part. Proof is in the way other teams crash our offensive boards so dilligently. they simply don't respect our fast break capability. If a team knows your gonna get out and run they start sending their guys back early to defend. Why worry when the Raps are gonna just walk the ball up the court most of the time. Because we play at such a slow methodical pace our conditioning visa vi other teams is also poorer.

Bryan has to keep building with high energy guys with a good motor, that are naturally aggressive. Guys like Bosh, Amir and Jack are good starts. Weems has some good potential and Derozan is still young. We still need more speed and aggresiveness, guys like Lou Williams and Iguodala . Agressive tough young players like the Bullets Andray Blatche. We need to improve toughness and agressiveness. GUYS YOU DON"T HAVE TO MOTIVATE! Guys like Reggie Evans, who god help, have a little more skill though. We're still 2 or 3 players away from being a serious contender.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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And that's what makes me think you can only be a hating troll. Bosh has fought through injury and the flu to at least have some impact. Bargnani gave us shrinkage and somehow that is all on Bosh. Give it up.

It's possible we could be better with Bosh replaced by a sturdier player that is not going to have injury issues every season. But I still don't hold out any hope for the team if Bargnani is in the mix.
good Bosh, fighting through that terrible injury and the flu. Good guy.


And yet again, team is built for Bosh and only Bosh, no one can perform better when he is out except for Amir or Evans because the team still runs everything the exact same way.


Team will be alot better next season once Bosh is gone.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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good Bosh, fighting through that terrible injury and the flu. Good guy.


And yet again, team is built for Bosh and only Bosh, no one can perform better when he is out except for Amir or Evans because the team still runs everything the exact same way.


Team will be alot better next season once Bosh is gone.

Dont think so. We would be a contender WITH Bosh plus a decent Wing. BC just needs to make a trade for a guy like Posey, Miller or Webster.
Oh and fuck Hedo. Cant see him anymore -.-*
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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good Bosh, fighting through that terrible injury and the flu. Good guy.


And yet again, team is built for Bosh and only Bosh, no one can perform better when he is out except for Amir or Evans because the team still runs everything the exact same way.


Team will be alot better next season once Bosh is gone.
my girl-friend agrees 100% with this assessment! I am leaning that way as well. too bad, he is popular, but is probably gone as soon as he can with NO compensation! o well, we have hope, we are fans, right...
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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What a load. Bargnani can't grab a fucking board because the team is built around Bosh. Holy crapoli that takes the cake.
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
looking to shed a few bad contracts

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Here's a few reasons:

Alex Radojevic 12th overall 1999- A guy who never even got into the rotation,
passed on Artest (this was like getting kicked in the stomach on that draft day for me), Posey, hell Jumaine Jones and Todd MacCulloch were more productive NBA players.

Mike Bradley 17th overall 2001- A guy who never even got into the rotation, passed on Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Dalembert, Arenas among others.

Kareem Rush/Chris Jefferies 20th overall 2002- Traded a useful player, Rush, for a useless player with an injury history which was known at the time, Jefferies and Lindsey Hunter. Could have taken Tayshaun Prince, Kristic, Salmons, Boozer, not to mention a crapload of very good Euros that went in the 2nd round.

Araujo 8th overall 2004- Iguodala, Biedrins, Jefferson, Josh and JR Smith, Nelson, West, K-Mart, Udrih, Varejao, hell trade that pick for a dollar and the Raps are in a better position going forward.

2005- Joey Graham over Danny Granger among others.

The Raps haven't made a useful 2nd round pick EVER.

Watching a team like the Blazers just makes you sick when you compare what they have built through the draft compared to the Raps, who have essentially Bosh and Bargnani to show. When their #1 pick went down, they were able to trade a guy they drafted (Outlaw) for Camby to replace him because they have so much depth. The only way to build a contender in Toronto, not exactly the hottest destination for NBA players, IS TO DRAFT WELL. Until the Raps do this, they'll be on the yo-yo between terrible and .500.

Sometimes you need to take a useful player and not swing for the fence.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Here's a few reasons:

Alex Radojevic 12th overall 1999- A guy who never even got into the rotation,
passed on Artest (this was like getting kicked in the stomach on that draft day for me), Posey, hell Jumaine Jones and Todd MacCulloch were more productive NBA players.

Mike Bradley 17th overall 2001- A guy who never even got into the rotation, passed on Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Dalembert, Arenas among others.

Kareem Rush/Chris Jefferies 20th overall 2002- Traded a useful player, Rush, for a useless player with an injury history which was known at the time, Jefferies and Lindsey Hunter. Could have taken Tayshaun Prince, Kristic, Salmons, Boozer, not to mention a crapload of very good Euros that went in the 2nd round.

Araujo 8th overall 2004- Iguodala, Biedrins, Jefferson, Josh and JR Smith, Nelson, West, K-Mart, Udrih, Varejao, hell trade that pick for a dollar and the Raps are in a better position going forward.

2005- Joey Graham over Danny Granger among others.

The Raps haven't made a useful 2nd round pick EVER.

Watching a team like the Blazers just makes you sick when you compare what they have built through the draft compared to the Raps, who have essentially Bosh and Bargnani to show. When their #1 pick went down, they were able to trade a guy they drafted (Outlaw) for Camby to replace him because they have so much depth. The only way to build a contender in Toronto, not exactly the hottest destination for NBA players, IS TO DRAFT WELL. Until the Raps do this, they'll be on the yo-yo between terrible and .500.

Sometimes you need to take a useful player and not swing for the fence.
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