The REAL reason why we are frustrated - Page 3
Old 06-24-2011, 09:37 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Dont trust them "experts"!!! They the same "experts" who said that Evan Turner would be rookie of the year last season, and how did that turn out? Walker would have been better, and would have been more of an impact to this team, at a faster rate. Free agency this year has a hand full of centers. We should have drafted Walker, signed Jordan or Marc Gasol, then maybe hope that were also shit next year, and get a top 3 pick to get Harrison Barnes. There ! PG, C, and Sf- biggest problems on this team would be solved. Then get rid of Calderon and Bargnani, and build around what we have.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:43 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Dont trust them "experts"!!! They the same "experts" who said that Evan Turner would be rookie of the year last season, and how did that turn out? Walker would have been better, and would have been more of an impact to this team, at a faster rate. Free agency this year has a hand full of centers. We should have drafted Walker, signed Jordan or Marc Gasol, then maybe hope that were also shit next year, and get a top 3 pick to get Harrison Barnes. There ! PG, C, and Sf- biggest problems on this team would be solved. Then get rid of Calderon and Bargnani, and build around what we have.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:45 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Oh they'll be trying to win. I don't doubt that, and that's good. But this team isn't likely to fully take shape until another season is in the books. The more they can move in the right direction until then the better. And a long lockout could really help this team get another high pick with not so much pain at all.
Yeah. I can't speak for others but, from my perspective, some of the lotto pick comments are a combination of tempered expectations and joking around (jokes about tanking). It's a young team still, so I'm not going to have too high of expectations, aside from really wanting to see them play hard and show improvement on the defensive end.

I just don't think the playoffs are realistic unless the Raps obtain another pretty significant piece via free agency or a trade. I doubt that will happen. However, given that Casey's job is at stake, I expect him to be pushing this team to win and demonstrate tangible improvement. That's great. I hope it happens, too. We'll see how it goes.

And, yes, if the lockout shortens the season, then maybe we get the best of both worlds. Maybe the team shows some significant improvement over the course of the season, wins some games and is competitive, but the season is not long enough for the team to fully gel and make the playoffs. Last season, that's what would have happened to the 76ers. Philly needed the full season to pull things together. In that type of scenario, the Raps show improvement and still land a decent pick. If next year's draft ends up as deep as speculated, a late lotto could still be a very solid prospect.
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Old 06-24-2011, 10:00 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Yes it will. Answer me this... just who the fuck will replace him? We haven't had a good SG like DeRozan since Vince Carter, and that says alot. There is no reason to trade the core group we are rebuilding with, if anything you trade useless pieces like Calderon, Kleiza, Bargnani, etc.
no offence, but stop discrediting everything you say by posting hate-filled jabs at guys like Calderon, Kleiza and Bargnani. Useless?

You're better than that.
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Old 06-24-2011, 10:45 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Lets just keep in mind that BC only extended his contract for 2 years. And an agreement buyout for Jonas to come play for us in next season 2012-2013. You should give him the credit for having that much guts to take someone who will take a lot of time to develop into a player we want.
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:54 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Yes it will. Answer me this... just who the fuck will replace him? We haven't had a good SG like DeRozan since Vince Carter, and that says alot. There is no reason to trade the core group we are rebuilding with, if anything you trade useless pieces like Calderon, Kleiza, Bargnani, etc.
seriously? like i said, yes derozan is decent. but he's no Carter when he was at his prime for the raptors. Carter completely brought about a hype to the Raptors that many nba teams were envious of. derozan hasn't done that, Raptors are still spiraling to me. i will admit that the Raptors future looks really good, but at the moment, there is no single player that is a must have on this team.

bosh was more of a centre piece than derozan is at the moment. when he left, that hurt. i doubt Raptors will see that much of a drop off if derozan leaves because there are other players that can replace him. there are a lot of slashers in the league, they may not be available, but they are still there. not many good jump shooting, rebounding big men like bosh.

i agree with you on trading jose and kleiza
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:21 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Since hes not coming over until next year we are pretty much going into next season with same players that got us the third worst record in league.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:23 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Since hes not coming over until next year we are pretty much going into next season with same players that got us the third worst record in league.
No we're not. We'll have 3-4 new players.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:46 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Dont trust them "experts"!!! They the same "experts" who said that Evan Turner would be rookie of the year last season, and how did that turn out? Walker would have been better, and would have been more of an impact to this team, at a faster rate. Free agency this year has a hand full of centers. We should have drafted Walker, signed Jordan or Marc Gasol, then maybe hope that were also shit next year, and get a top 3 pick to get Harrison Barnes. There ! PG, C, and Sf- biggest problems on this team would be solved. Then get rid of Calderon and Bargnani, and build around what we have.
Umm wtf? No one was saying he will be rookie of the year, it was all John Wall and Blake Griffin.

Also sign Jordan and Marc Gasol? Easier said than done. You must think rebuilding happens overnight, in which case you are very wrong. It doesn't matter if Walker would bring a quick impact, rebuilding is for long-term success.
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Old 06-25-2011, 01:38 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Lets just keep in mind that BC only extended his contract for 2 years. And an agreement buyout for Jonas to come play for us in next season 2012-2013. You should give him the credit for having that much guts to take someone who will take a lot of time to develop into a player we want.
Gutsy move or pure stupidity... We will know for fact in a few years.
I just feel that after 22-60 season, the fans deserve more. We needed an immediate impact, and we got a long term project, that`s what I feel. Buy the time Jonas will be serviceable center DD and the rest may not wanna stay if the team sucks.
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Old 06-25-2011, 02:27 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Just watch this video. This guy is just what we needed. We are just upset cuz most of us (including me in the beginning) never saw this guy play. He is beasting it in the vid. Crashing boards, running the floor, finishing around the rim, playing solid D. I am actually excited. We have to be patient as fans, it will all be worth it in two years or so. Kemba or knight can't improve us from a 20 win team to a 40-50 win team.
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Old 06-25-2011, 02:37 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Dont trust them "experts"!!! They the same "experts" who said that Evan Turner would be rookie of the year last season, and how did that turn out? Walker would have been better, and would have been more of an impact to this team, at a faster rate. Free agency this year has a hand full of centers. We should have drafted Walker, signed Jordan or Marc Gasol, then maybe hope that were also shit next year, and get a top 3 pick to get Harrison Barnes. There ! PG, C, and Sf- biggest problems on this team would be solved. Then get rid of Calderon and Bargnani, and build around what we have.
A couple of things....

Evan Turner was a solid player last season and when he played in the playoffs. One season does not a career make, so your comparison is flawed. Hell, winning rookie of the year does not make you the best player all of a sudden from your draft class. I can cite numerous examples if you want.

Gasol is a restricted free agent and by all accounts is wanting to stay in Memphis. DeAndre Jordan is cut from the same cloth as Javale McGee an athletic big man who is incredibly dumb and gets by on his athleticism. I wouldn't be willing to over spend on that guy.

And really, what has Kemba shown right now? Anything? The guy had a TON of questions surrounding him this year. Hell, I think people forget that UConn prior to the Big East tournament were horrible. They got hot and carried it into the tourney. Had UConn continued to struggle, I'm willing to bet a ton of you guys here don't really want him.

Really, drafting is about next year, it's about 3-5 years down the line. It's looking at high school kids that may be draft picks in a few years, it's about solidifying a core, it's about evaluating exisiting trade offers, it's about cap space management etc. etc.

I don't know if some of you guys truly understand this.
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Old 06-25-2011, 02:42 PM   #53 (permalink)
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A couple of things....

Evan Turner was a solid player last season and when he played in the playoffs. One season does not a career make, so your comparison is flawed. Hell, winning rookie of the year does not make you the best player all of a sudden from your draft class. I can cite numerous examples if you want.

Gasol is a restricted free agent and by all accounts is wanting to stay in Memphis. DeAndre Jordan is cut from the same cloth as Javale McGee an athletic big man who is incredibly dumb and gets by on his athleticism. I wouldn't be willing to over spend on that guy.

And really, what has Kemba shown right now? Anything? The guy had a TON of questions surrounding him this year. Hell, I think people forget that UConn prior to the Big East tournament were horrible. They got hot and carried it into the tourney. Had UConn continued to struggle, I'm willing to bet a ton of you guys here don't really want him.

Really, drafting is about next year, it's about 3-5 years down the line. It's looking at high school kids that may be draft picks in a few years, it's about solidifying a core, it's about evaluating exisiting trade offers, it's about cap space management etc. etc.

I don't know if some of you guys truly understand this.
Kemba is also just two years younger than Bayless and one year younger than Demar. Plus Bayless has like 4 years of NBA experience.
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Old 06-25-2011, 02:45 PM   #54 (permalink)
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A couple of things....

Evan Turner was a solid player last season and when he played in the playoffs. One season does not a career make, so your comparison is flawed. Hell, winning rookie of the year does not make you the best player all of a sudden from your draft class. I can cite numerous examples if you want.

Gasol is a restricted free agent and by all accounts is wanting to stay in Memphis. DeAndre Jordan is cut from the same cloth as Javale McGee an athletic big man who is incredibly dumb and gets by on his athleticism. I wouldn't be willing to over spend on that guy.

And really, what has Kemba shown right now? Anything? The guy had a TON of questions surrounding him this year. Hell, I think people forget that UConn prior to the Big East tournament were horrible. They got hot and carried it into the tourney. Had UConn continued to struggle, I'm willing to bet a ton of you guys here don't really want him.

Really, drafting is about next year, it's about 3-5 years down the line. It's looking at high school kids that may be draft picks in a few years, it's about solidifying a core, it's about evaluating exisiting trade offers, it's about cap space management etc. etc.

I don't know if some of you guys truly understand this.
If Jordan had been in this draft right now (knowing the skills that he has and how "dumb" he is) where do you think he'd have gone? Probably a top 3 pick. You can't teach size and athleticism.... you CAN teach him to play smarter. He's young. Give me a guy like that any day of the week.

As for Kemba.... UCONN was crap because outside of him they really weren't that good. When he got hot he flat-out CARRIED them all the way to the national title. That says something. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't have a solid NBA career.
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Old 06-25-2011, 02:52 PM   #55 (permalink)
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If Jordan had been in this draft right now (knowing the skills that he has and how "dumb" he is) where do you think he'd have gone? Probably a top 3 pick. You can't teach size and athleticism.... you CAN teach him to play smarter. He's young. Give me a guy like that any day of the week.

As for Kemba.... UCONN was crap because outside of him they really weren't that good. When he got hot he flat-out CARRIED them all the way to the national title. That says something. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't have a solid NBA career.
I think a team reaches for Jordan because of his size, but from what I've seen of Val, I'll take Val right now in the same draft. Why? Because Val KNOWS how to play defense with his feet and body and Jordan knows how to play with his athleticism.

And if you CAN teach a player to play smarter, how comes Andrea hasn't learned after 6 years? How come Iverson never learned how to trust teammates? How come no one taught Keon Clark how to play basketball? I could go on and on.

As for Kemba, well, he carried them to a title in a weak college field. DaJuan Wagner also carried his Memphis team once. Where's he again?

I just don't think Kemba is all that good. I watch the Big East religiously (b/c of St. John's) and I've watched him play a ton this year. He's a good college player. He may be a good back up NBA PG. I think at best he's a bobby jackson, a guy you count on for his offense, but you don't trust running your team. Not a knock, just the reality.
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Old 06-25-2011, 02:56 PM   #56 (permalink)
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If Jordan had been in this draft right now (knowing the skills that he has and how "dumb" he is) where do you think he'd have gone? Probably a top 3 pick. You can't teach size and athleticism.... you CAN teach him to play smarter. He's young. Give me a guy like that any day of the week.
I like some aspects of Jordan's game. He can really rebound the ball, and during some games he looks like a solid help defender. So I like him a bit. He can work well next to PFs he need the ball a lot. He might have been a decent fit here. Who knows?

However, in my opinion, I don't think he'd be a top 3 pick. Jordan's offensive game has some limitations. Kanter, Thompson, and Jonas all have the potential to produce on both ends, in varying degrees.

In my opinion, he could have been worthy of the 6th or 7th pick, but it's also a very weak draft, so you gotta keep that in mind, too.
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Old 06-25-2011, 03:14 PM   #57 (permalink)
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rhetorical.

Yeah, I get the reasons, but I listed one major reason to not be frustrated. You got your tank, now bask in it.
My feeling exactly. Tank Nation.. Are you happy with the results??????
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Old 06-25-2011, 03:25 PM   #58 (permalink)
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My feeling exactly. Tank Nation.. Are you happy with the results??????
I think a thoughtful member of tank nation would say that the question can't be answered yet. Ask in 3 years. There were a number of teams trying to trade up to get Val. If the Raps had slipped out of the top 5, and finished ahead of Sac and Washington, it's possible Val would be with any one of 4 or 5 other teams that tried to trade for him. If Val is a high quality Center in 3 years, then a lot of Raptor fans will be happy.

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Old 06-25-2011, 07:46 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I think a team reaches for Jordan because of his size, but from what I've seen of Val, I'll take Val right now in the same draft. Why? Because Val KNOWS how to play defense with his feet and body and Jordan knows how to play with his athleticism.

And if you CAN teach a player to play smarter, how comes Andrea hasn't learned after 6 years? How come Iverson never learned how to trust teammates? How come no one taught Keon Clark how to play basketball? I could go on and on.
Because his team mates kept bring up the issue about practice
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Old 06-25-2011, 08:40 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Iverson was an effective role player for a 50+ win Nuggets team. He had trust issues throughout his career, as do almost all great guards, but to say that "he never learned to trust his teammates" suggesting his game never matured is false.

The way his career ended is unfortunate.
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