Rate the Worst BC Moves - Page 3
Old 11-27-2009, 12:04 PM   #41 (permalink)
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You're against having redundant players but you are in support of both the Bargnani exntension AND the getting Turkoglu move?

...

pretty ironic if u ask me.
i'm against drafting a player when you already have a player of that type as your centerpiece guy.

and i don't see hedo and Bargs as redundant considering Bargs absolutely can't play point forward, can't be the primary ball handler in crunch time, and can't break down opposing defences, which are clearly the reasons we got hedo.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:06 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I'm not the only one who believes that the Bosh and Bargnani tandem can't work. You don't team your real franchsie player who is a finesse player with the softest center in the league. I would prefer Rudy Gay who give you more production than Bargnani, and get a tradtional center to help Bosh in the frontcourt. There is a reason why Portland shelled out 15 million per year for Aldridge, and Bargnani got 10 million per year. Aldridge is a much better player than Bargnani. He also plays at both ends of the floor. You should watch more Portland games, you'll notice a big difference in their games.
well i do have league pass, so i'm guessing i probably watch more Portland games than you do (that is, unless you have league pass too - then we're even ).
you're really going to have to provide examples and proof that proves that Aldridge is worth 15 million dollars more than bargnani... because i dont see it.
He benefits becuase he plays on a better team, that actually plays defense.... but statistically, AB's numbers trump Aldridges.

17 ppg / 6.5 rebs / 1.1 blocks
or
14 ppg / 7.8 rebs / 0.5 blocks

but thats just stats.
maybe you can explain how Bargs has gotten better each and every year he's been in the league, whereas Aldridge has declined in almost every statistical category 2 years in a row?

Last edited by INSIDER; 11-27-2009 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:06 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Hiring Triano, he is not head coach material. He does not have what you see in good coaches. He is too timid, and does not stand up for his players. He fails to motivate the team.

Hiring him, especially with who is available (Avery Johnson, Jeff Van Gundy, etc), is a bad move. Most recently Byron Scott was let go, he would be a great one to take over, especially after what we have seen from Triano.
welcome to rf coom jiggy.

and as i remember it, van gundy was not available (he said he wanted to spend anothe year in broadcasting before taking on another coaching job) and bc didn't want to go with avery b/c he's very smitch-like in his approach and we were trying to get away from that.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:08 PM   #44 (permalink)
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1 - No analysts were expecting Roy or Gay to go # 1. Andrea Bargnani was a virtual consensus #1 pick by major mock drafts. Roy and Gay were not predicted to go #2 either. Some thought Gay should be in the top 3, but most also thought Roy should not be in the top 5. Analysts did not view Roy and Gay as the top talent in the draft. In fact, many analysts thought Tyrus Thomas was the best pick after Bargnani. Imagine the Raps with Tyrus Thomas. Things could be much worse. That just shows you how fucked up drafts can be and how far off analysts predictions can be. I'm not talking out of my ass. I will provide a link to the 2006 mock draft predictions.

NBA.com 2006 mock draft predictions

2 - That deal could turn out to be a huge steal. Bargnani's contract of $50 mill over 5 years is pretty efficient given what he provides. The Trail Blazers are paying Aldridge $65 million over 5 years. Aldridge's contract is much harder to trade if he doesn't take his game to another level. After this season, the Jazz are paying Okur more than $10 million per for basically the same skill set and scoring production that Bargs provides the Raps. Okur is a slightly better rebounder, but Bargs, believe it or not, is a better post defender.

3 - I don't have the desire to debate that one. You might be right. If I was playing devil's advocate, the only thing I'd say is that we don't know who BC may have approached about coaching and whether they declined the job. It's possible that BC put "feelers" out to see if certain people were interested but discovered that nobody wanted the Raptor job. Before the moves BC made this summer, I doubt elite candidates were interested in coaching in Toronto.
Only because Colangelo made it clear right away Bargnani was his boy. If anyone else picks 1st, Bargnani likely goes 4-7 like Yi and Gallinari and Montiejunas this year. Thats where he was ranked pre lottery

The top 8 was fairly even. The night the Raptors won the lottery the argument on RealGM was Gay or Aldridge.

I agree Roy doesnt go 1st by anyone. Everyone knew hed be great, but ye ol senior ceiling doubts got him, saying he tops out at 18ppg. With that said Colangelo said hed win ROY easily and we were never picking Gay because of his character issues. Thereby its reasonable to assume if Colangelo thought hmm, Bargnani wont fit beside Bosh, then hed have taken Roy.

But when picking first I think BPA is the way to go. Its just that Colangelo got the BPA wrong... he thought Bargnani would be Dirk and hes Okur.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:19 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Only because Colangelo made it clear right away Bargnani was his boy. If anyone else picks 1st, Bargnani likely goes 4-7 like Yi and Gallinari and Montiejunas this year. Thats where he was ranked pre lottery

The top 8 was fairly even. The night the Raptors won the lottery the argument on RealGM was Gay or Aldridge.

I agree Roy doesnt go 1st by anyone. Everyone knew hed be great, but ye ol senior ceiling doubts got him, saying he tops out at 18ppg. With that said Colangelo said hed win ROY easily and we were never picking Gay because of his character issues. Thereby its reasonable to assume if Colangelo thought hmm, Bargnani wont fit beside Bosh, then hed have taken Roy.

But when picking first I think BPA is the way to go. Its just that Colangelo got the BPA wrong... he thought Bargnani would be Dirk and hes Okur.
1 - Regarding the Bargs consensus, you raise a very good point. I'm sure the mock draft results took into account Colangelo's preference for Bargs.

2 - That may have been the argument on RealGM, but they were off base with Gay, because he slipped to #8. More than a handful of teams passed on Gay, for whatever reasons. As for Aldridge, a couple of people have already stated why Bargs is just as good a pick, if not better, than Aldridge.

3 - Just because a GM thinks a player will win Rookie of the year, that does not mean that player is one of his top 2 or 3 chocies. I made a seperate post on this already. The rookie of the year is not always one of the top 2 or 3 players in a draft class. The winner of the ROY award is frequently the player who gets the best chance to showcase their skills. That is, they get minutes and touches. Everyone knew Brandon Roy would get that in Portland, so picking him as the Roy candidate was not a huge prediction. Big men take longer to develop. So Tyrus Thomas, Aldridge, and Bargs would have been expected to reach their potential further down the road than Brandon Roy.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:23 PM   #46 (permalink)
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welcome to rf coom jiggy.

and as i remember it, van gundy was not available (he said he wanted to spend anothe year in broadcasting before taking on another coaching job) and bc didn't want to go with avery b/c he's very smitch-like in his approach and we were trying to get away from that.

I have been meaning to get into a forum about the Raptors, just to voice my frustrations with other Raptors fans, if nothing else.

Thanks for that Info on those coaches Trane. But I'm sure there are others better suited for the job are out there. I know people like Triano cause he is Canadian and all, but wouldn't we rather see progression in the franchise? I liked him as an assistant cause he knows the game, but a head coach is a totally different game. I liked Mitchell and was kind of disappointed to see him go, he had the aggressive get in your face proactive style of personality needed to be a head coach.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
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i liked smitch too jiggy, so i hear ya on that one. truth is there weren't too many coaches available at the time. it's been discussed here a few times though. do a search and you may find some interesting opinions from other board members.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:31 PM   #48 (permalink)
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BCs worst move is going in the direction he did. He likes the euroball too much and although its fun to watch it just doesnt win games. I want to see him go in a defensive direction with this team getting more athletic quick guys, especially in the starting 5. If Jose and Bargs are still our PG/C combo by day 1 next year, BC needs to be on the hot seat.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:32 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Worst moves?

1. Signing Calderon to a 5 year deal for the purpose of keeping him rather than trading him when his value was highest.

2. Signing Kapono instead of getting a starting caliber SF/SG.

3. Signing Wil Solomon as the backup PG.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:37 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Worst moves?

3. Signing Wil Solomon as the backup PG.
Hahaha, very good call.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:38 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Worst moves?

1. Signing Calderon to a 5 year deal for the purpose of keeping him rather than trading him when his value was highest.

2. Signing Kapono instead of getting a starting caliber SF/SG.

3. Signing Wil Solomon as the backup PG.

1. Signing Calderon at the time was a no brainer. And at 8-9Mil dollars he's still worth that imo. It's always funny when a player struggles a little and people all of a sudden forget what the circumstances were at the time.

2. What starting caliber SG/SF could you get 3yrs ago for the MLE (5.7Mil)? Good luck. At the time Kapono was a popular move. Again revisionist history at it's finest.

3. Solomon was awful, but with little to no money available any move he made there would have benn a crapshoot.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:45 PM   #52 (permalink)
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well i do have league pass, so i'm guessing i probably watch more Portland games than you do (that is, unless you have league pass too - then we're even ).
you're really going to have to provide examples and proof that proves that Aldridge is worth 15 million dollars more than bargnani... because i dont see it.
He benefits becuase he plays on a better team, that actually plays defense.... but statistically, AB's numbers trump Aldridges.

17 ppg / 6.5 rebs / 1.1 blocks
or
14 ppg / 7.8 rebs / 0.5 blocks

but thats just stats.
maybe you can explain how Bargs has gotten better each and every year he's been in the league, whereas Aldridge has declined in almost every statistical category 2 years in a row?
Its nice that you haven't mentioned nothing about defense. Aldridge declining every year, he averaged his career best in points last year at 18.1ppg and has improved every year since his rookie year. The only reason his points have gone down this year is because they are giving more touches to Oden. It isn't because Aldridge is shooting a low percentage. Ever since his rookie season, Aldridge is shooting close to .500 (.503, .484, .484, .491). Also, he has improved his rebounding every year from his rookie year 5.0 rbg to this year 7.8 rbg.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:50 PM   #53 (permalink)
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this tem need a solid SG (defence and shooting) DD is not ready at all. That said all BC moves appear good
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:51 PM   #54 (permalink)
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1. Signing Calderon at the time was a no brainer. And at 8-9Mil dollars he's still worth that imo. It's always funny when a player struggles a little and people all of a sudden forget what the circumstances were at the time.

2. What starting caliber SG/SF could you get 3yrs ago for the MLE (5.7Mil)? Good luck. At the time Kapono was a popular move. Again revisionist history at it's finest.

3. Solomon was awful, but with little to no money available any move he made there would have benn a crapshoot.
No..if you have read my posts i've been very consistant from Calderon's second year on the team I didn't think he was the right point guard for THIS TEAM..and i've never waivered on that. This isn't about a guy struggling, and i'm not saying he's a bad player. I dont' think he's suited for this roster and i've always said that. Don't lump me in with the haters.

Corey Maggette is who I would have gotten. We needed and still do a guy that can get to the rack and score points from the wing(now it's from the 2 spot). Revisionist my ass. We needed either rebounding/toughness or scoring but it had to be a starting caliber wing player and we signed Kapono..and no it wasn't a popular signing at the time...where we you when BC was getting flamed?

Perhaps, but i was asked to rate the bad moves and I think that was one of them. Perhaps a guy that had proven at least he was able to play at the nba level. Carlos Arroyo and that guy we used have, plays for the Bulls now..crap i forget...played oversees last year. Jason Williams retired but might have been available.

Man, what a hostile thread. You get asked to do something and then get flamed for it. Sheesh
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:58 PM   #55 (permalink)
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2. What starting caliber SG/SF could you get 3yrs ago for the MLE (5.7Mil)? Good luck. At the time Kapono was a popular move. Again revisionist history at it's finest.
Really? Where was it a popular move? Not here...seeing as here didn't really exist.

At the time it seemed pretty silly. The top three point shooting team in the league signing another three point shooter instead of addressing several glaring holes in the roster.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:17 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I think it's pretty ridiculous to judge a move before it happens. Bargnani's extension only kicks in next season, let's wait until then to evaluate if it's a good move or not. As of right now, he's only making 7 million, which is pretty good value.

Regarding the direction, I think you can disagree with it, but not call it a bad move.
If everybody would only try to do the safe thing, we'd still light fire by hitting stones together. I would be willling to bet that before the end of his career, colangelo will win a title with a team that's better on offense than on defense.

In terms of bad moves, eliminating hindsight (signing garbajosa was a bad move that way), the top 3 imo is:

1. Signing solomon
2. Signing roko
3. Signing kapono

None of his other moves I can call them bad from their a priori reasoning. Maybe the poll is not explained properly. Maybe the author wants us to analyze which moves were the worst in hindsight - but that would be futile. YOu can take any team in the league 5 years ago, and show how they could be a title contender now if only they would have made the right moves
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:21 PM   #57 (permalink)
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No..if you have read my posts i've been very consistant from Calderon's second year on the team I didn't think he was the right point guard for THIS TEAM..and i've never waivered on that. This isn't about a guy struggling, and i'm not saying he's a bad player. I dont' think he's suited for this roster and i've always said that. Don't lump me in with the haters.

Corey Maggette is who I would have gotten. We needed and still do a guy that can get to the rack and score points from the wing(now it's from the 2 spot). Revisionist my ass. We needed either rebounding/toughness or scoring but it had to be a starting caliber wing player and we signed Kapono..and no it wasn't a popular signing at the time...where we you when BC was getting flamed?

Perhaps, but i was asked to rate the bad moves and I think that was one of them. Perhaps a guy that had proven at least he was able to play at the nba level. Carlos Arroyo and that guy we used have, plays for the Bulls now..crap i forget...played oversees last year. Jason Williams retired but might have been available.

Man, what a hostile thread. You get asked to do something and then get flamed for it. Sheesh
you seem to like offensive players with no defensive rep (jamison, magette) ...

in any case, in my opinion no player signing is really bad if the contract remains a good asset. Calderon is very tradeable at 9/yr, he might not be a great fit here, but he would be perfect for the lakers.

This team needs some time before we can look at it at decide whether we need to tweak it. If Bosh stays, I would be willing to wait until the end of next season before we reload. Bargnani can still become a defensive force, and derozan can be a lot or nothing - we need more time to tell. It would be a mistake to trade either Bosh or Bargnani until we can definitely say that it doesn't work.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:50 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Its nice that you haven't mentioned nothing about defense. Aldridge declining every year, he averaged his career best in points last year at 18.1ppg and has improved every year since his rookie year. The only reason his points have gone down this year is because they are giving more touches to Oden. It isn't because Aldridge is shooting a low percentage. Ever since his rookie season, Aldridge is shooting close to .500 (.503, .484, .484, .491). Also, he has improved his rebounding every year from his rookie year 5.0 rbg to this year 7.8 rbg.

Whats so special about his Defense? he isnt a defensive phenom at all.
he avg 18 points in his rookie campaign, avg'd 18 points last year, this year he averages 14.
blocks have dropped, steals have dropped. so because he has Oden (that Offensive dynamo) now he's not getting as much touches? Bargs has to compete with Bosh to get touches, and thats not even close.

lets play your game:
so we have Aldridge on our team...
who's playing Center?
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:10 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Aldridge isn't that reliable -he's on my fantasy team. I wish I would've choosen Bargs -he ranked 15th overall now.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:29 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I don't like to look at he past especially when players are gone now (Kapono, etc..)

I'll make it short

mistakes
Hedo contract
Drafting Bargs
not trading Caldy or AP after their breakout years
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