Rate the starting 5 on individual defence
Old 11-30-2009, 01:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Rate the starting 5 on individual defence

Rate from 1-5 who is the best defender in the starting lineup to who is the worst (1 being the Best defender of this sorry bunch)

5.Jose
4.Hedo
3.Derozan
2.Bargnani
1.Bosh

So imo Bosh wins by default!
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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1. Bosh C+

2-4 terrible.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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At least with Bosh and Derozan the effort is there. Bosh I think is actually good defensively. Look at all the rebounds he's been getting, and blocked shots. You guys need to give credit where its due. he just gasses out very quickly because he's got no help on the inside.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Jose - F-
derozan - D
hedu - C -
bargnani - C
bosh - C+
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Jose 1
Derozan 3
Hedo 2
Bosh 5
andrea 0
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Jose - F
derozan - F
hedu - F
bargnani - D
bosh - C+
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Other than hedu, everybody else is trying hard IMO
hedu is the only one slacking
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
Other than hedu, everybody else is trying hard IMO
hedu is the only one slacking
wow u think Bargnani is trying i dont even wana know what u think of him not trying is
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I depends what part of defense you are thinking of (team D, one-on-one D, shot blocking, P'n'R D, pure hustle, rebounding). I'd say both Bosh and Bargs are both ok as individual defenders against other bigs that play big. Both of them suck in pick'n'roll situations (Bosh is worse). Bosh gets some help blocks where as Bargs can often block people trying to make a move near the basket. Both are often late in helping though. Bosh is a better rebounder (really? ). AB is by no means a hustle guy. Bosh is sometimes. I'd say both are all in all decent, but look really bad because our perimeter defense and the defensive schemes suck big time.

Jose is not good defender. That cant be denied. However all the PG's get blown by in this league and Jose gets even more crap thrown at him than he deserves. He also is stuck in P'n'R situations with those above mentioned big guys who dont really help.

Hedo is not the most athletic guy, but he is long and has experience. The thing he seems to lack the most is hustle. I think he could be decent, but is just not motivated to play D.

DD has the tools, but is inexperienced. Plus he is often defending the best guy of the opposing team. He makes mistakes, but I think he can be ok defender after learning the trade in few years.

So basically we have guys that at their best are decent. Then we seem to have bad defensive schemes and not enough hustle. This combination basically makes our team defense pretty bad and makes each individual seem even worse than they are. I think any of these guys could pass as ok defender when surrounded with good defenders. We just dont have any of those.

One new bad thing has been emerging lately (not only against Bobcats). We dont seem to get back as quick as we should. We are a jumpshooting team offensively which often leads to long rebounds and when our guys are not getting back fast, we get beaten or forced into bad missmatches. It would be more understandable if we had more guys going for offensive rebounds, but outside Bosh (and Amir of the bench) our guys dont do that regularly. AB actually went for some against Phoenix (slapped a few back to our guards) and DD gets an offensive rebound or two in every game, but thats still not consistent enough to warrant not getting back.

Oh and of course we are a bunch of nice guys who are not willing to take a hard foul to stop people from scoring easy baskets from underneath. This goes for every starter we have. Might be that they just want to avoid fouling too much to stay on the court to bring offense (this certainly seems to be the case with Bosh often), but you need somebody willing to defend too.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rudy-T View Post
I depends what part of defense you are thinking of (team D, one-on-one D, shot blocking, P'n'R D, pure hustle, rebounding). I'd say both Bosh and Bargs are both ok as individual defenders against other bigs that play big. Both of them suck in pick'n'roll situations (Bosh is worse). Bosh gets some help blocks where as Bargs can often block people trying to make a move near the basket. Both are often late in helping though. Bosh is a better rebounder (really? ). AB is by no means a hustle guy. Bosh is sometimes. I'd say both are all in all decent, but look really bad because our perimeter defense and the defensive schemes suck big time.

Jose is not good defender. That cant be denied. However all the PG's get blown by in this league and Jose gets even more crap thrown at him than he deserves. He also is stuck in P'n'R situations with those above mentioned big guys who dont really help.

Hedo is not the most athletic guy, but he is long and has experience. The thing he seems to lack the most is hustle. I think he could be decent, but is just not motivated to play D.

DD has the tools, but is inexperienced. Plus he is often defending the best guy of the opposing team. He makes mistakes, but I think he can be ok defender after learning the trade in few years.

So basically we have guys that at their best are decent. Then we seem to have bad defensive schemes and not enough hustle. This combination basically makes our team defense pretty bad and makes each individual seem even worse than they are. I think any of these guys could pass as ok defender when surrounded with good defenders. We just dont have any of those.

One new bad thing has been emerging lately (not only against Bobcats). We dont seem to get back as quick as we should. We are a jumpshooting team offensively which often leads to long rebounds and when our guys are not getting back fast, we get beaten or forced into bad missmatches. It would be more understandable if we had more guys going for offensive rebounds, but outside Bosh (and Amir of the bench) our guys dont do that regularly. AB actually went for some against Phoenix (slapped a few back to our guards) and DD gets an offensive rebound or two in every game, but thats still not consistent enough to warrant not getting back.

Oh and of course we are a bunch of nice guys who are not willing to take a hard foul to stop people from scoring easy baskets from underneath. This goes for every starter we have. Might be that they just want to avoid fouling too much to stay on the court to bring offense (this certainly seems to be the case with Bosh often), but you need somebody willing to defend too.
+1 thats what im saying so keeping the guy on is an important factor for his learning development!
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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individual defense, does help D count as well?

Caldy 1
DeRozan 2
Hedo 2
Bosh 2.5
Bargs 1.5
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Bosh - man to man - B
- team - B+ (based on defensive rebounding.. 1 and out)

Bargnani - man to man - B+
- team - D-

Turkoglu - man to man - C
- team - C-

Calderon - man to man - F
- team - D+

Derozan - mean to man - D+
- team - C-
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post
individual defense, does help D count as well?

Caldy 1
DeRozan 2
Hedo 2
Bosh 2.5
Bargs 1.5
I agree with those numbers...None of the Raptors should be ranked over 2.5 they let teams score at will on us...

& yes Jose is one of the big reasons!
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Defense. Our best man2man defenders are our best help defenders, as is usually the case.

1. Chris Bosh.
2. Demar Derozan.

3. Hedo Turkoglu





4. Jose Calderone
5. Bargnani
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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5.Jose
4.Bargnani
3.Derozan
2.Hedo
1.Bosh
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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5.bargs
4.jose
3.hedo
2.demar
1.bosh

however hedo jose Bargs are no where close to the Bosh and demar as they try when they want to. triano should stop practicing offense and just run defensive plays. until this team learns to play def we will never win.
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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1) Bosh...2) Bosh...3) Bosh, i wasn't aware the others played defense!
lol
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Old 12-01-2009, 01:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I will rank them in this order:
1. Bosh
2. Barg
3. Hedu
4. DD
5. Jose
I will rate them as:
Bosh B
Barg C
Hedu D
DD D
Jose F

Team defence and coaching F
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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this is an excellent thread to see who knows anything about basketball ... not going to name any names though
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
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this is an excellent thread to see who knows anything about basketball ... not going to name any names though
I know, anyone who rates Bargnani as our second best defender surely doesn't know their basketball.
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