At this rate...

Joshz · 01-21-2009, 10:45 AM

I'm a positive person first and foremost; For me, especially being a T.O. fan i can be interested enough in an underachieving team if i can see the draft having an impact on the team in the future.

Especially after hearing Colangelos comments that he will probably wait out the J.O situation till the trade deadline (the level headed move) i have to start thinking ahead...Without Calderon, with Parker running point, J.O. coming off the bench and no real wing player it becomes concerning with how bad this team will finish the season. So here im interested in hearing what draft spot...pre-lottery everyone expects the raps to be in...and who you'd like to see the Raps drafting.

For those unaware of the college prospect situation maybe we can inform any of you via youtube or whatnot (pretty much every college/highschool players highlights are there)

See i think if BC can make a wing addition (save some camp room this off-season) make an addition in FA, and draft a REAL talent i see this team being successful next season (AKA over .500)

The Raps right now are 9th in the lottery...(nbadraft.net has us taking Earl Clark)...I'm a proponent of the raps looking at either Gerald Henderson (off the charts athlete, absolutely destroys at the rim, has been playing VERY well of late for duke) or Demar Derozan (another of the charts athlete, winner of McDonalds All-American dunk contest, starting to lead USC) both project as 2's in the NBA, which is in my mind our position of need, and both would immediately be upper echelon talents at there positions...Realistically i see the raps finishing between 10-15, which right now makes both players realistic draft wise (although they probably will rip training sessions based on athletic ability alone)

Joshz · 01-21-2009, 10:51 AM

Heres a high school mix of Henderson

YouTube - Gerald Henderson - Bad Side (High...

And one of Derozan NOT dunking (check out his dunk highlights...trust worth it)

YouTube - Demar Derozan Can Only Dunk?

**'trane** · 01-21-2009, 11:02 AM

can't draft anybody from duke. that should be a rule.

**fancylad** · 01-21-2009, 11:04 AM

They both look good. I'm really not in tune to college ball at all unfortunately, so i rely on guys like you to make me less of an ignoramus on draft night.

One thing i'll say, i'm unsually never in faovur of drafting based on position, but this year would be one year to consider it.

Superjudge · 01-21-2009, 11:16 AM

Buddy, this has been my angle for a long time now, your post is a very intelligent post, and it's thinking from the 'other' side of the table, the business side. A lot of people here don't wanna acknowledge that the .....

newsflash, don't mind the interuption, however, Barracuda just sweet talked the cable tech support guy into not only restoring our basic cable, which is all we should have for not payin gor bill in time, but he restored all the channels, ALL, EVERY ONE, for free and it took 48 seconds, not 48 hours because she is that sexy, that smart, and that damn good. My Barracuda is the Bee's Knee's

anyhow, back to the Subject, the business angle is important for the GM and the Ownership. But in this case all can be helped. Now I know a lot of people will say "ohh we can't rebuild now, we have been for years....". Ok, fine, I respect that, however, BC said it would be a 5 year process, were in year three, and in the NBA, if you tank, and get a decent pick, you can turn it around with a smart trade or FA signing in an offseason.

You have a decent set of players now. Lets not forget that. We have a base with Bosh, Jose, Bargnani, Parker and Kapono. If a clever move is made to lose ONeal, for example, if the marion thing works, and they are free'd up all that cash for the 09 draft, and they have say a top 7 pick or better, now things look really good. You can get lucky for once in the draft and have a 2-3 guard that comes in and really is a top pick, and can play, a Roy or Mayo type, AND solid cash to sign very good veteren, like an artest type (im just putting in names to show the level of player, god knows who we'd get). Now all of a sudden, you have this, and NEXT year.

Jose
rookie/solid vet
rookie/solid vet
Bosh
Bargnani

still got Parker off the pin, still have Kapono, or a moon or whoever to spot minutes. roko still there as well, and stiff like huump or Jawai.

And you still have room under the cap probably, and you have a solid rookie who is no more than 3 million for three years on the cap.

THAT'S a good deal. Bosh can like it, and stay. If he doesn't, big deal, he leaves, it's the NBA, if he goes, you have 18million bucks to replace him. Seeing as his scoring will be not as needed anyhow, you can replace him with a guy that does a few other things, like defend and rebound.... ie. Bosh has tonnes of tools, but so do other guys, so believe it or not, he can be replaced.

Under that scenario, I'm happy, and I'm willing to take the lottery gamble.

Mind you, my job doesnt rely upon it. heehee

moremilk · 01-21-2009, 01:03 PM

losing is bad though, I think losing on purpose is a very damaging thing to do. I want our players to play hard as a habit, and habits are only built by repetition.

but if we play hard and still end up losing, it's OBVIOUS that it's going to be good for us long term. The reality of the draft system is that the worst number of wins to have is anything in the 30-50 range ...

Superjudge · 01-21-2009, 01:10 PM

then perfect, dont change a thing, this team will keep losing.

The MVP of West Hollywood · 01-21-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge

Buddy, this has been my angle for a long time now, your post is a very intelligent post, and it's thinking from the 'other' side of the table, the business side. A lot of people here don't wanna acknowledge that the .....

newsflash, don't mind the interuption, however, Barracuda just sweet talked the cable tech support guy into not only restoring our basic cable, which is all we should have for not payin gor bill in time, but he restored all the channels, ALL, EVERY ONE, for free and it took 48 seconds, not 48 hours because she is that sexy, that smart, and that damn good. My Barracuda is the Bee's Knee's

anyhow, back to the Subject, the business angle is important for the GM and the Ownership. But in this case all can be helped. Now I know a lot of people will say "ohh we can't rebuild now, we have been for years....". Ok, fine, I respect that, however, BC said it would be a 5 year process, were in year three, and in the NBA, if you tank, and get a decent pick, you can turn it around with a smart trade or FA signing in an offseason.

You have a decent set of players now. Lets not forget that. We have a base with Bosh, Jose, Bargnani, Parker and Kapono. If a clever move is made to lose ONeal, for example, if the marion thing works, and they are free'd up all that cash for the 09 draft, and they have say a top 7 pick or better, now things look really good. You can get lucky for once in the draft and have a 2-3 guard that comes in and really is a top pick, and can play, a Roy or Mayo type, AND solid cash to sign very good veteren, like an artest type (im just putting in names to show the level of player, god knows who we'd get). Now all of a sudden, you have this, and NEXT year.

Jose
rookie/solid vet
rookie/solid vet
Bosh
Bargnani

still got Parker off the pin, still have Kapono, or a moon or whoever to spot minutes. roko still there as well, and stiff like huump or Jawai.

And you still have room under the cap probably, and you have a solid rookie who is no more than 3 million for three years on the cap.

THAT'S a good deal. Bosh can like it, and stay. If he doesn't, big deal, he leaves, it's the NBA, if he goes, you have 18million bucks to replace him. Seeing as his scoring will be not as needed anyhow, you can replace him with a guy that does a few other things, like defend and rebound.... ie. Bosh has tonnes of tools, but so do other guys, so believe it or not, he can be replaced.

Under that scenario, I'm happy, and I'm willing to take the lottery gamble.

Mind you, my job doesnt rely upon it. heehee

thank you, this is what I've been standing by as well. With Jose/Bosh/Bargs set, turn JO's deal into a good wing player and we have a 4 star team, the same as Orlando or LA or something. Then if we can get another wing through the lottery pick or some other deal down the road (if Ukic's better, trade Jose, for example. or get someone in 2011 FA), we're looking REALLY good.

insight_tor · 01-21-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge

Buddy, this has been my angle for a long time now, your post is a very intelligent post, and it's thinking from the 'other' side of the table, the business side. A lot of people here don't wanna acknowledge that the .....

newsflash, don't mind the interuption, however, Barracuda just sweet talked the cable tech support guy into not only restoring our basic cable, which is all we should have for not payin gor bill in time, but he restored all the channels, ALL, EVERY ONE, for free and it took 48 seconds, not 48 hours because she is that sexy, that smart, and that damn good. My Barracuda is the Bee's Knee's

anyhow, back to the Subject, the business angle is important for the GM and the Ownership. But in this case all can be helped. Now I know a lot of people will say "ohh we can't rebuild now, we have been for years....". Ok, fine, I respect that, however, BC said it would be a 5 year process, were in year three, and in the NBA, if you tank, and get a decent pick, you can turn it around with a smart trade or FA signing in an offseason.

You have a decent set of players now. Lets not forget that. We have a base with Bosh, Jose, Bargnani, Parker and Kapono. If a clever move is made to lose ONeal, for example, if the marion thing works, and they are free'd up all that cash for the 09 draft, and they have say a top 7 pick or better, now things look really good. You can get lucky for once in the draft and have a 2-3 guard that comes in and really is a top pick, and can play, a Roy or Mayo type, AND solid cash to sign very good veteren, like an artest type (im just putting in names to show the level of player, god knows who we'd get). Now all of a sudden, you have this, and NEXT year.

Jose
rookie/solid vet
rookie/solid vet
Bosh
Bargnani

still got Parker off the pin, still have Kapono, or a moon or whoever to spot minutes. roko still there as well, and stiff like huump or Jawai.

And you still have room under the cap probably, and you have a solid rookie who is no more than 3 million for three years on the cap.

THAT'S a good deal. Bosh can like it, and stay. If he doesn't, big deal, he leaves, it's the NBA, if he goes, you have 18million bucks to replace him. Seeing as his scoring will be not as needed anyhow, you can replace him with a guy that does a few other things, like defend and rebound.... ie. Bosh has tonnes of tools, but so do other guys, so believe it or not, he can be replaced.

Under that scenario, I'm happy, and I'm willing to take the lottery gamble.

Mind you, my job doesnt rely upon it. heehee

Sounds like a plan, they don't have to make any efforts to tank the season though ... they tank the season by design already

... BTW, who is that Baracuda dude? Looks like a nice fella to have around to run errands for you

Ugo Ferst · 01-21-2009, 01:38 PM

Never draft a duke player!!!

Barracuda · 01-21-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insight_tor

Sounds like a plan, they don't have to make any efforts to tank the season though ... they tank the season by design already

... BTW, who is that Baracuda dude? Looks like a nice fella to have around to run errands for you

In the real world, this 'dude' would eat you for breakfast.

But you're lucky, we're on a message board. So in that case, I will smile politely, appreciate a joke, and be the nice girl.

heehee.

insight_tor · 01-21-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barracuda

In the real world, this 'dude' would eat you for breakfast.

But you're lucky, we're on a message board. So in that case, I will smile politely, appreciate a joke, and be the nice girl.

heehee.

Ahhh ... I am so happy I am still alive

. I was just curious to compare with Justin which is even capable of making coffee.

Justin Story

spuriousjones · 01-21-2009, 05:15 PM

harden would be pretty great for us. we'd have to get lucky though. maybe if we don't move jo and the team that get's harden already has a good sg + has bad contracts, we can swap picks and take their financial burden?

Dark Knight · 01-21-2009, 09:23 PM

Wow, that Derozan vid really impressed me. Someone send it to BC!

Snooch · 01-21-2009, 09:38 PM

I would also bring in Delfino.

And would strongly consider moving Kaps for Scalabrini and Tony Allen.

Joshz · 01-22-2009, 01:31 AM

Carlos Boozer, Elton Brand...Duke

I'm with Superjudge, J.O. any way out...Marvin Williams, and a draft pick would be nice for next season

BballWatcher · 01-22-2009, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshz

Carlos Boozer, Elton Brand...Duke

I'm with Superjudge, J.O. any way out...Marvin Williams, and a draft pick would be nice for next season

Don't forget Grant Hill - the best Dukie of them all (until he fucked up his ankle). And Luol Deng. And Battier. Duhon and Dahntay Jones both also went to Duke.

If you pick carefully, you can sift through the Laeteners, the Redicks, the Shelden Williamses, the Josh McRobertses and the Trajan Langdons.

Windex · 01-22-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane

can't draft anybody from duke. that should be a rule.

Duke has the most players in the NBA. Don't put heavy emphasis based on College, if you look at the top players that went to school.

Bosh/Georgia Tech
Wade/Marquette
CP3/Wake Forest
Billups/Colorado
Granger/New Mexico
Tim Duncan/Wake Forest
D Harris/Wisconsin
Brandon Roy/Washington
Joe Johnson/Arkansas
D Will/Illinois
K. Durant/Texas
Steve Nash/Santa Clara

2 best rookies this year
Rose/Memphis
Mayo/USC

all went to different schools, with exception of Wake

LX · 01-22-2009, 07:18 AM

I think this team is more screwed than we'd like to admit if we lose Bosh for nothing. Who is going to come here without a Bosh already in place? Free Agents follow the money, but they also look at likely success, and even if they go to a weaker team, they usually end up being problems when the losing continues. Players like Kapono, Parker and Calderon, while amounting to a lot with a balanced roster, do not add up to anything when there are holes. Kapono in particular is a big minus in that scenario. We'd have to get lucky in the draft and then still wait years for good things to happen.

01-21-2009, 10:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
Joshz is Pondering if these are BCs last days Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 355 Representing:	At this rate... I'm a positive person first and foremost; For me, especially being a T.O. fan i can be interested enough in an underachieving team if i can see the draft having an impact on the team in the future. Especially after hearing Colangelos comments that he will probably wait out the J.O situation till the trade deadline (the level headed move) i have to start thinking ahead...Without Calderon, with Parker running point, J.O. coming off the bench and no real wing player it becomes concerning with how bad this team will finish the season. So here im interested in hearing what draft spot...pre-lottery everyone expects the raps to be in...and who you'd like to see the Raps drafting. For those unaware of the college prospect situation maybe we can inform any of you via youtube or whatnot (pretty much every college/highschool players highlights are there) See i think if BC can make a wing addition (save some camp room this off-season) make an addition in FA, and draft a REAL talent i see this team being successful next season (AKA over .500) The Raps right now are 9th in the lottery...(nbadraft.net has us taking Earl Clark)...I'm a proponent of the raps looking at either Gerald Henderson (off the charts athlete, absolutely destroys at the rim, has been playing VERY well of late for duke) or Demar Derozan (another of the charts athlete, winner of McDonalds All-American dunk contest, starting to lead USC) both project as 2's in the NBA, which is in my mind our position of need, and both would immediately be upper echelon talents at there positions...Realistically i see the raps finishing between 10-15, which right now makes both players realistic draft wise (although they probably will rip training sessions based on athletic ability alone)

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01-21-2009, 11:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
'trane is on a monk trip. giant steps Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 15,249 Representing:	can't draft anybody from duke. that should be a rule.

01-21-2009, 11:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
fancylad is travis pickin' nosce te ipsum Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: east side. Posts: 13,806 Representing:	They both look good. I'm really not in tune to college ball at all unfortunately, so i rely on guys like you to make me less of an ignoramus on draft night. One thing i'll say, i'm unsually never in faovur of drafting based on position, but this year would be one year to consider it.

01-21-2009, 11:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
Superjudge is pounding the rock! Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 17,389 Representing:	Buddy, this has been my angle for a long time now, your post is a very intelligent post, and it's thinking from the 'other' side of the table, the business side. A lot of people here don't wanna acknowledge that the ..... newsflash, don't mind the interuption, however, Barracuda just sweet talked the cable tech support guy into not only restoring our basic cable, which is all we should have for not payin gor bill in time, but he restored all the channels, ALL, EVERY ONE, for free and it took 48 seconds, not 48 hours because she is that sexy, that smart, and that damn good. My Barracuda is the Bee's Knee's anyhow, back to the Subject, the business angle is important for the GM and the Ownership. But in this case all can be helped. Now I know a lot of people will say "ohh we can't rebuild now, we have been for years....". Ok, fine, I respect that, however, BC said it would be a 5 year process, were in year three, and in the NBA, if you tank, and get a decent pick, you can turn it around with a smart trade or FA signing in an offseason. You have a decent set of players now. Lets not forget that. We have a base with Bosh, Jose, Bargnani, Parker and Kapono. If a clever move is made to lose ONeal, for example, if the marion thing works, and they are free'd up all that cash for the 09 draft, and they have say a top 7 pick or better, now things look really good. You can get lucky for once in the draft and have a 2-3 guard that comes in and really is a top pick, and can play, a Roy or Mayo type, AND solid cash to sign very good veteren, like an artest type (im just putting in names to show the level of player, god knows who we'd get). Now all of a sudden, you have this, and NEXT year. Jose rookie/solid vet rookie/solid vet Bosh Bargnani still got Parker off the pin, still have Kapono, or a moon or whoever to spot minutes. roko still there as well, and stiff like huump or Jawai. And you still have room under the cap probably, and you have a solid rookie who is no more than 3 million for three years on the cap. THAT'S a good deal. Bosh can like it, and stay. If he doesn't, big deal, he leaves, it's the NBA, if he goes, you have 18million bucks to replace him. Seeing as his scoring will be not as needed anyhow, you can replace him with a guy that does a few other things, like defend and rebound.... ie. Bosh has tonnes of tools, but so do other guys, so believe it or not, he can be replaced. Under that scenario, I'm happy, and I'm willing to take the lottery gamble. Mind you, my job doesnt rely upon it. heehee

01-21-2009, 01:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
moremilk is whatever Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: toronto Posts: 7,082 Representing:	losing is bad though, I think losing on purpose is a very damaging thing to do. I want our players to play hard as a habit, and habits are only built by repetition. but if we play hard and still end up losing, it's OBVIOUS that it's going to be good for us long term. The reality of the draft system is that the worst number of wins to have is anything in the 30-50 range ...

01-21-2009, 01:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
Superjudge is pounding the rock! Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 17,389 Representing:	then perfect, dont change a thing, this team will keep losing.

01-21-2009, 01:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ugo Ferst is pounding the rock! Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,312 Representing:	Never draft a duke player!!!

01-21-2009, 05:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
spuriousjones is comfortably numb Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 255 Representing:	harden would be pretty great for us. we'd have to get lucky though. maybe if we don't move jo and the team that get's harden already has a good sg + has bad contracts, we can swap picks and take their financial burden?

01-21-2009, 09:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dark Knight is waiting for the sun to come out so he can let his guns out. Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Electric Avenue Posts: 15,049 Representing:	Wow, that Derozan vid really impressed me. Someone send it to BC!

01-21-2009, 09:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
Snooch is Kobe i's the b'y Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: In the Paint Posts: 7,813 Representing:	I would also bring in Delfino. And would strongly consider moving Kaps for Scalabrini and Tony Allen.

01-22-2009, 01:31 AM	#16 (permalink)
Joshz is Pondering if these are BCs last days Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 355 Representing:	Carlos Boozer, Elton Brand...Duke I'm with Superjudge, J.O. any way out...Marvin Williams, and a draft pick would be nice for next season

01-22-2009, 07:18 AM	#19 (permalink)
LX is boycotting boy cots In the Paint Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 23,286 Representing:	I think this team is more screwed than we'd like to admit if we lose Bosh for nothing. Who is going to come here without a Bosh already in place? Free Agents follow the money, but they also look at likely success, and even if they go to a weaker team, they usually end up being problems when the losing continues. Players like Kapono, Parker and Calderon, while amounting to a lot with a balanced roster, do not add up to anything when there are holes. Kapono in particular is a big minus in that scenario. We'd have to get lucky in the draft and then still wait years for good things to happen.