Raptors working hard to move Lowry/Derozan, price very high? - Page 7
Old 12-23-2013, 11:51 AM   #121 (permalink)
Masai Ujiri

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,775
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rapsmannn View Post
Indiania still needs money to put a side to sign born ready
They have enough cap as of now, they'll be fine.
Kirby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 02:28 PM   #122 (permalink)
likes the consistency in the colangelo built raptors

Senior Member
 
rapsmannn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,437
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
They have enough cap as of now, they'll be fine.
well there at 65 million with danny granger off the books already,

so I can't see them adding salary for next year which would cut into signing lance Stephenson

Lance is currently making just under 1 million, he will go to 10 million per, if he takes a discount maybe 8 million

that puts there salary at 73 to 75, you add steve novak to that cap which would be about 3.5 million would end up costing the pacers another 3.5 million in luxury tax

Last edited by rapsmannn; 12-23-2013 at 02:31 PM.
rapsmannn is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 02:30 PM   #123 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,386
Representing:
Default

players on their first contract don't take discounts man, they're poor as fuck by nba standards
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 04:04 PM   #124 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,807
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
The trick with getting Novak off the roster is that 15-16 salary he's got. The team is geared to have a ton of cap room that summer (the summer before the city hosts the all-star game) so having more space would be even better. Two years of top picks, plus Jonas and Ross (and possibly DD and/or Amir), then a max level free agent and this team might look pretty good.
But when was the last time that we were able to sign a max level free agent? I wouldn't count on it to be honest.

Last edited by Tommy C; 12-23-2013 at 11:44 PM.
Tommy C is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 04:15 PM   #125 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
But when was the last time that we were able to sign max level free agent? I wouldn't count on it to be honest.
How else are we going to get a franchise player? We have nothing to trade for one, we're destined to pick 12th-16th. Gotta go for a max free agent otherwise the team is screwed. Unless Masai finally wakes up and acts on the sky high trade value of Amir and Lowry and gets the tank started.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 04:41 PM   #126 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,807
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
How else are we going to get a franchise player? We have nothing to trade for one, we're destined to pick 12th-16th. Gotta go for a max free agent otherwise the team is screwed. Unless Masai finally wakes up and acts on the sky high trade value of Amir and Lowry and gets the tank started.
How many times we heard BC talks about financial flexibility and positioning ourselves? This didn't really work. We were not able to attract big names via FA and it's not gonna be any different unless we are starting to be a better team altogether. IMO only via trade we will be able to bring over some good players, but the reality is that you have at least two players who want to be here and love the city (Amir and DD) and we were already thinking of trading them hoping to land here much better talent. Easier said than done.
Tommy C is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 05:46 PM   #127 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
How many times we heard BC talks about financial flexibility and positioning ourselves? This didn't really work. We were not able to attract big names via FA and it's not gonna be any different unless we are starting to be a better team altogether. IMO only via trade we will be able to bring over some good players, but the reality is that you have at least two players who want to be here and love the city (Amir and DD) and we were already thinking of trading them hoping to land here much better talent. Easier said than done.
BC used his financial flexibility to overpay average starters. If Masai is as good as we believe that will definitely not be the case. Although I agree that if a player is given the choice of max money here or in a bigger market or a warmer city they will likely choose the other city. That's the reality of having a basketball team in Toronto.

I think me and you are actually agreeing, I don't think it will be easy to turn anyone or any group of assets on this team into a franchise player through a trade. It it would take JV + other starters + picks to get one, which is what OKC asked from us for Harden, and that was after everybody and their mother knew they had no chance of keeping him. I don't think it we will be able to grab a franchise player away from another team in a trade unless that player is expiring and that team has lost all leverage, in which case we'd be back at the free agency.

That is why I want this team to tank so much. We have very limited chances to get a franchise player through free agency or trades, so our only option left is the draft. And before someone gives me the "hurr durr we can just pick the GOAT at #16 overall because scouting", While you can get lucky with later picks, it is indisputable that it's easier to draft a better player with a higher pick.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 08:15 PM   #128 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,807
Representing:
Default

Which brings me to another dilemma, why do we all think that MU is such a great GM? First, he won the award, but let's not forget, he dealt with the Melo trade very well, for sure, will give him that, but at the end of the day he was able to build a good playoff team with no superstars, and I believe he will try to apply the same concept here. I like MU but he also has a lot to prove. This team needs to get out of the treadmill mode but I don't believe that by trading all your pieces away and getting a couple of picks we will be able to be a contender. Developing players is a long process.

Last edited by Tommy C; 12-23-2013 at 09:05 PM.
Tommy C is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 08:21 PM   #129 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,276
Representing:
Default

The trick is to draft a star players will want to play with. The lure of being part of a potential "superteam" can easily overcome location preferences.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 11:18 PM   #130 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,218
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
The trick is to draft a star players will want to play with. The lure of being part of a potential "superteam" can easily overcome location preferences.
But when has that ever happened? What stars came to play with Lebron James? Mo Williams?... Who came to play with Dwight Howard...? You can't draft that type of player. That player needs to be developed in the right culture. Players with their eye on a championship don't want to play with a team focused on a draftee because they know how long it will take to get to a championship level.
bjjs is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 11:49 PM   #131 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,807
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
But when has that ever happened? What stars came to play with Lebron James? Mo Williams?... Who came to play with Dwight Howard...? You can't draft that type of player. That player needs to be developed in the right culture. Players with their eye on a championship don't want to play with a team focused on a draftee because they know how long it will take to get to a championship level.
Couldn't agree more. We better of developing our own players and try and add pieces. If we trade everyone for picks and then we trade let's see Wiggins and another top 10 pick, are we really gonna become a contender all of a sudden? Hell no. Sometimes if feel most people here look at the draft as the solution for everything because it's very sexy nowadays to tank for Wiggins.
Tommy C is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 12:33 AM   #132 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
J-Bo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,374
Representing:
Default

--While Toronto has played better since trading Gay, the Raptors remain active in the trade market. One opposing executive told FSO he'd be shocked if point guard Kyle Lowry was still with the team after the February trade deadline. New York and Brooklyn are reportedly most interested, but Orlando and New Orleans are also considered potential Lowry landing spots.

NBA Report: Bucks may be gauging Sanders trade | FOX Sports on MSN

Orlando and NOP sound a hella lot more intriguing than anything Brooklyn or NYK have to offer
J-Bo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 02:25 AM   #133 (permalink)
rootin for the eagles, boise state, the leafs, raps, and jays

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 5,563
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Bo View Post
--While Toronto has played better since trading Gay, the Raptors remain active in the trade market. One opposing executive told FSO he'd be shocked if point guard Kyle Lowry was still with the team after the February trade deadline. New York and Brooklyn are reportedly most interested, but Orlando and New Orleans are also considered potential Lowry landing spots.

NBA Report: Bucks may be gauging Sanders trade | FOX Sports on MSN

Orlando and NOP sound a hella lot more intriguing than anything Brooklyn or NYK have to offer
Indeed, I agree. So tired of hearing of the Knicks and Nets. They have literally nothing at all.
Chiggmo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 07:38 AM   #134 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,276
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
But when has that ever happened? What stars came to play with Lebron James? Mo Williams?... Who came to play with Dwight Howard...? You can't draft that type of player. That player needs to be developed in the right culture. Players with their eye on a championship don't want to play with a team focused on a draftee because they know how long it will take to get to a championship level.
Who came to play with Dwyane Wade? No one? I thought some big center came to play with him. They won a championship. Meh, can't remember.

I think someone else came to play with him recently too, though I can't remember. Couple of people, I thought. Oh well.

Did anyone sign in free agency to play with Blake Griffin? I can't remember. Darn this memory of mine.

I can't recall if anyone ever went to play with Kobe in LA. He just won a bunch of championships all by himself right? He definitely didn't have any help from any Hall of Fame big men, right?

If only I could remember...
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 07:40 AM   #135 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,276
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
Couldn't agree more. We better of developing our own players and try and add pieces. If we trade everyone for picks and then we trade let's see Wiggins and another top 10 pick, are we really gonna become a contender all of a sudden? Hell no. Sometimes if feel most people here look at the draft as the solution for everything because it's very sexy nowadays to tank for Wiggins.
Some people here have been advocating a tank since Bosh left, and are in no way being swayed by the "sexiness" of the Wiggins draft.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 02:49 PM   #136 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,807
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Some people here have been advocating a tank since Bosh left, and are in no way being swayed by the "sexiness" of the Wiggins draft.
The ideal time was to tank after Bosh left. When you already have young pieces such as DD, JV, Ross, Amir etc this is not the time to tank. Cheering for tanking now while this team isn't all that bad is just silly. Tanking and rebuild can take a very long time and there is no guarantee what the results would look like. You can end up like OKC or you can end up like the Kings or even Cleveland or Washington, none of them really killing it.
Tommy C is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 02:58 PM   #137 (permalink)
rootin for the eagles, boise state, the leafs, raps, and jays

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax
Posts: 5,563
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
The ideal time was to tank after Bosh left. When you already have young pieces such as DD, JV, Ross, Amir etc this is not the time to tank. Cheering for tanking now while this team isn't all that bad is just silly. Tanking and rebuild can take a very long time and there is no guarantee what the results would look like. You can end up like OKC or you can end up like the Kings or even Cleveland or Washington, none of them really killing it.
Or you can end up like our constant treadmill.
Chiggmo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 04:13 PM   #138 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
The ideal time was to tank after Bosh left. When you already have young pieces such as DD, JV, Ross, Amir etc this is not the time to tank. Cheering for tanking now while this team isn't all that bad is just silly. Tanking and rebuild can take a very long time and there is no guarantee what the results would look like. You can end up like OKC or you can end up like the Kings or even Cleveland or Washington, none of them really killing it.
Who ever said anything about guarantee? There are no guarantees with any strategy. What you get with tanking is a higher chance to succeed than a treadmilling team.

DeMar, JV, Ross, and Amir is not a core that will ever win a championship. At best they become like this year's Atlanta Hawks and are a solid team in need of a franchise player to make the push in order to become a contender. What pro-tank guys suggest is that we grab that player now so we're not stuck in their predicament.

And also, Cleveland is about the worst a tanking team can do. They consistently picked guys slotted to be picked way later. They wasted assets. Masai will not do that, judging by what we've seen so far. Sacramento was cursed with the worst owners in the league, which we do not have, and Washington's GM is terrible too. If your examples of tanks gone wrong are all teams with shitty management, perhaps it means those teams weren't actually tanking but rather just sucked because of their GM's incompetence. If that's the case those teams are destined to fail not because they tank, but because they have shitty management who don't know what to do with assets. Those examples mean nothing to us, as that is not a dilemma we have.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 04:28 PM   #139 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
Who ever said anything about guarantee? There are no guarantees with any strategy. What you get with tanking is a higher chance to succeed than a treadmilling team.

DeMar, JV, Ross, and Amir is not a core that will ever win a championship. At best they become like this year's Atlanta Hawks and are a solid team in need of a franchise player to make the push in order to become a contender. What pro-tank guys suggest is that we grab that player now so we're not stuck in their predicament.

And also, Cleveland is about the worst a tanking team can do. They consistently picked guys slotted to be picked way later. They wasted assets. Masai will not do that, judging by what we've seen so far. Sacramento was cursed with the worst owners in the league, which we do not have, and Washington's GM is terrible too. If your examples of tanks gone wrong are all teams with shitty management, perhaps it means those teams weren't actually tanking but rather just sucked because of their GM's incompetence. If that's the case those teams are destined to fail not because they tank, but because they have shitty management who don't know what to do with assets. Those examples mean nothing to us, as that is not a dilemma we have.
Well said.

Also, what BC did after Bosh left in 3 seasons wasn't tanking or any clear direction - it was plain idiocy. He squandered flexibility constantly, picks were thrown away as if they were nothing. He never once took back longer contracts for first rounders. I don't want this team to be ATL, and others have the same mentality as well. If that is the goal of this franchise - to win maybe one playoff series each year, then what's the point. The goal should be an NBA championship.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 05:07 PM   #140 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,624
Representing:
Default

Lowry's value is imo as high as it will ever be, we've already seen DeMar decline this year Masai shouldn't wait until Lowry does to finally make a deal.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24