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-   -   Raptors: A Team With No Identity (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/raptors-team-no-identity-7143.html)

Dr. J. Naismith 03-20-2009 10:27 AM

Raptors: A Team With No Identity
 
They're absolutely right ..... what are we right now besides a really shitty basketball team? :confused2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by National Post
When things get tough, the Raptors don't. When pushed, they tend to fall.

"Tenacity and intensity and competitiveness," says Chris Bosh. "That's what's missing."

More than that is missing from this edition of the Raptors, but those are major components. Maybe it's the result of a long and dispiriting season; more likely, it's part of the innate makeup of this nice-guy, offence-oriented roster. Either way, this team has beaten one plus-.500 team since Jan. 5. There is an extra competitive gear that Toronto simply does not possess.

But as Calderon put it, it was not one thing. There has been bleeding from many tiny cuts. There were the different systems -- first under Mitchell, who liked to walk it up and play pick-and-roll basketball; then under current coach Jay Triano, who without the benefit of a training camp tried to introduce more motion; then the Marion acquisition, at which point the Raptors tried to run. The ability to adapt, it seems, was absent.

"What's missing from that team is an identity," says one league source who has studied the Raptors. "Are they a running team? A half-court team? A shutdown team? They need to decide what they are."

Source - Mystery men

Dann38 03-20-2009 10:40 AM

The identity comes from the coach IMO. It's his philosophy that trickles down through the team and onto the court.
Again, this team improved too quickly which allowed BC to deviate from the traditional method of re-building. The division title and Sam's COTY award have proven detrimental and exposed Colangelo as a reactionary GM instead of a "stay-the course" long term thinker.
A return to tried and true re-building practices, starting with the hiring of a skilled and single-minded head coach, is ultimately what will help establish not only an identity but a tradition of winning basketball.

LX 03-20-2009 05:01 PM

Quote:

"Tenacity and intensity and competitiveness," says Chris Bosh. "That's what's missing."
They need to get some Tenacinpetitivity!

Gurk 03-20-2009 05:02 PM

LX thats wackness

Ligeia 03-20-2009 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann38 (Post 162867)
The identity comes from the coach IMO.

I disagree. I think the identity comes from the GM based on the players he brings in; then he brings in a coach whose philosophy will work well for those players and the organization.

'trane 03-20-2009 05:23 PM

crappy team in frozen wasteland isn't an identity? :confused2:

Dann38 03-20-2009 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ligeia (Post 162968)
I disagree. I think the identity comes from the GM based on the players he brings in; then he brings in a coach whose philosophy will work well for those players and the organization.

Most coaches have a set philosophy on how they think the game should be played. There aren't very many who are able to adapt their styles to suit different players. Which is one of the reasons coaches are canned so often.
The teams in the league with clearly defined identities such as Utah, Los Angeles and San Antonio find the players to fit the coach and the way he wants to play.
That's what Toronto should strive to become. Your way allows the inmates to run the asylum.
What we're currently seeing here is what happens when the GM tries to define the identity. It changes with the personnel.

'trane 03-20-2009 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann38 (Post 162974)
Most coaches have a set philosophy on how they think the game should be played. There aren't very many who are able to adapt their styles to suit different players. Which is one of the reasons coaches are canned so often.
The teams in the league with clearly defined identities such as Utah, Los Angeles and San Antonio find the players to fit the coach and the way he wants to play.
That's what Toronto should strive to become. Your way allows the inmates to run the asylum.
What we're currently seeing here is what happens when the GM tries to define the identity. It changes with the personnel.

good post dann. 'tis a strong point.

Admiral 03-20-2009 05:53 PM

they have an identity, their identity is a team that plays no D

bogus 03-20-2009 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann38 (Post 162867)
The division title and Sam's COTY award have proven detrimental and exposed Colangelo as a reactionary GM instead of a "stay-the course" long term thinker.

What do you mean by reactionary?

Dann38 03-20-2009 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogus (Post 162982)
What do you mean by reactionary?


BC's moves in years 2 and 3 were more like impulse buying then adhering to a longer term plan.
The immediate success of '06-'07 created the illusion that the team was prepared to take the next step to becoming a title contender. The team that year was making a lot of threes. Ergo, Kapono would be a great fit. Last season they couldn't rebound, so he reacts by trading for J.O. That doesn't work out so he moves him for Marion. Yadda yadda.
Moves to plug holes instead of being part of a bigger picture.

It's hard to blame the guy. I drank the kool-aid like most and thought they'd be a much better team. I'm by no means calling for Colangelo's head. I just want to see a concrete plan put into action instead of piddly-ass moves just to sneak into the playoffs.

LX 03-20-2009 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann38 (Post 162985)
BC's moves in years 2 and 3 were more like impulse buying then adhering to a longer term plan.
The immediate success of '06-'07 created the illusion that the team was prepared to take the next step to becoming a title contender. The team that year was making a lot of threes. Ergo, Kapono would be a great fit. Last season they couldn't rebound, so he reacts by trading for J.O. That doesn't work out so he moves him for Marion. Yadda yadda.
Moves to plug holes instead of being part of a bigger picture.

It's hard to blame the guy. I drank the kool-aid like most and thought they'd be a much better team. I'm by no means calling for Colangelo's head. I just want to see a concrete plan put into action instead of piddly-ass moves just to sneak into the playoffs.

Yep - that's my biggest disappointment. I really thought the guy came in here with a blueprint, but this season shows that to be not so true.

'trane 03-20-2009 06:47 PM

i think he had a blueprint, it just didn't work and now he's scrambling...

The MVP of West Hollywood 03-20-2009 06:49 PM

Yeah, two years ago we were THE deep team, then we were THE 3 point shooting/no turnovers team, now we're just kind of ... nothing.

I agree that what's disappointed me from BC is how little overall progress we've made since he's been here. If Bosh has to go he's turned Bosh, Charlie, #1 pick, capspace into Bargnani, #7, the young player we get for Bosh (which arguably = Charlie or Charlie + difference between #1 and #7), and capspace. We're going back in a time machine to 3 years ago so we can try again. What a waste. Perform better this time BC.

bogus 03-20-2009 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann38 (Post 162985)
BC's moves in years 2 and 3 were more like impulse buying then adhering to a longer term plan.
The immediate success of '06-'07 created the illusion that the team was prepared to take the next step to becoming a title contender. The team that year was making a lot of threes. Ergo, Kapono would be a great fit. Last season they couldn't rebound, so he reacts by trading for J.O. That doesn't work out so he moves him for Marion. Yadda yadda.
Moves to plug holes instead of being part of a bigger picture.

It's hard to blame the guy. I drank the kool-aid like most and thought they'd be a much better team. I'm by no means calling for Colangelo's head. I just want to see a concrete plan put into action instead of piddly-ass moves just to sneak into the playoffs.

Ah, ok cool. I agree with that.

When you called him reactionary, I thought that you might have meant that he was conservative with his moves, which is why I was confused.

He's definitely pushing aggressively for what he thinks of as progress, although people may disagree with his assessment of exactly what 'progress' is.

moremilk 03-21-2009 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The MVP of West Hollywood (Post 162991)
Yeah, two years ago we were THE deep team, then we were THE 3 point shooting/no turnovers team, now we're just kind of ... nothing.

I agree that what's disappointed me from BC is how little overall progress we've made since he's been here. If Bosh has to go he's turned Bosh, Charlie, #1 pick, capspace into Bargnani, #7, the young player we get for Bosh (which arguably = Charlie or Charlie + difference between #1 and #7), and capspace. We're going back in a time machine to 3 years ago so we can try again. What a waste. Perform better this time BC.

however, the reality is that so far, all he had to work with (beyond the andreea pick)was 1 first rounder (#17th last summer) and 12 million in cap space in 06. And we had a shitload of bad luck, with the injuries to TJ and Garbo. TJ before the injury was a very valuable asset, but after the 2 months hiatus, his value was compromised. As for Garbo, ever since he got injured we went downhill.

The worst thing that happened to this franchise was winning before the team was complete. I would like to see a true rebuilding process, like OKC and Portland went through. Instead, we, like the Bulls one year before us, got too good too soon, and we went backwards ever since.

Aar_Canada 03-21-2009 12:52 AM

I know I sound like a broken, silly record, but if Bosh cuts his hair, it's all good. No more Ru Paul. Like, seriously.


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