Raptors Republic: Jose Calderon the Scorer
Old 09-28-2009, 10:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
convinced that Raptors fans are only happy when they're unhappy.

Retired Administrator
 
Dr. J. Naismith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Almonte
Posts: 10,246
Representing:
Default Raptors Republic: Jose Calderon the Scorer



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenalist via Raptors Republic
It seems whenever you hear that chap Calderon’s name it’s either preceded or succeeded somewhere in the sentence by ‘terrible defender’, ‘hand-clapping defense’ or ‘hamstring’. Even the bloke himself agrees that he needs to avoid being penetrated so frequently. His coach has resigned himself to try and hide him by hoping that he can ‘play a defensive system’. That’s all peaches, but what about offense? We need a lot more from our 9 million dollar man than a few hollow assists.

His offensive game can be broken down in a few different roles:

The Quarterback: This is the Caldy most of us know. A risk averse guard who takes his sweet time getting the ball to the safest option on the court – Chris Bosh. If he’s not available, kick it out to the wing hoping that somebody has freed himself of off some half-ass screen and is open enough to give him an easy assist. This is the Calderon that doesn’t look for his shot, his first, second and third option is to pass and he’s not even thinking about turning the corner or popping a jumper using the screen. He’s the guy we saw most of last year and want to see less of next year. This role would be ideal for Jose if he were a backup, in fact, he’d be one of the safest backup options in the league if he stuck to this script. Unfortunately, he’s a starter and the responsibilities double if not triple when you’re in charge of the team.

The Creator: By creator I really mean creating shots for his mates that wouldn’t have been there otherwise. Like, pretend an utterly shite player like Jason Kapono is hanging out at the wing where he’s got no business scoring. A creator will shift to his side of the court, break his man, show the ball enough that Kapono’s defender is both tempted and forced to help; at this point the creator will make a chest-high pass to Kapono for the open J. In this role your business is only to get people who can’t get their own shot, a shot. This is where you make lesser players look good enough to get contracts. This is the role that we wanted Jose to play last year when we had weak wing options like Kapono, Parker and Moon. Those players are leeches that rely on their point guard to feed them and Jose didn’t do much of that. Needless to say, this role can only be played by a point guard who can dribble penetrate, if not at will, then at least consistently enough to be considered a threat. We saw Jose play this role in 2007-08 when Ford went down but not since. Not since indeed.

TJ Ford Lite: You can never straighten a dog’s tail, but can you teach a PG who can’t run to run? Some might say those are equally hard propositions and Jose has done little to prove otherwise. His risk averse nature means that he’s programmed to take three dribbles after a defensive rebound before he even considers passing it up. Don’t believe me? Notice how many times his head is actually up staring directly at a flank option only to keep on dribbling as the opportunity evaporates. The post-Marion team last year was advertised as a run ‘n gun squad and we didn’t do enough of that (I believe Marion’s arm is still up begging for that pass). I’m not sure how much Triano will depend on the fast-break, but if history is to be believed, it’s better he not. If you ask him if the Raptors are going to be a running team he’ll give the safest answer which doesn’t put any pressure on Jose or commit to anything: We’ll run when the opportunity is there. I don’t think a PG needs to have Barbosa qualities and force his way into easy points when nothing’s imminent, but if TV viewers can notice you passing up easy points, then it’s a real problem.

Off the ball: He hasn’t had a chance to play with another PG so far. He played a bit with T.J Ford but the sample size for that experiment was too small to make anything of it. He played a little with Roko Ukic but that’s Roko Ukic. Not enough information to comment in this area but safe to say he’s going to be doing a lot more of this with Turkoglu around.

The Scorer: What happened to the guy who averaged 15 points, 10 assists and shot 55% from the field and 51% from three in January and February of 2007-08 go? Isn’t that really what his contract was awarded for? That’s the gritty, hard-nosed, leave-it-all-on-the-floor Jose Calderon that we grew to love. The one that played 37 minutes a game, didn’t break a sweat, robbed liquor stores and still wanted to take the big shot in the end. The one that could leave even the best defenses wondering how they could’ve been so late in guarding his turn off the high screen. The one which left the PG scratching his head wondering what to do since he got burned every time he went under, the one that made you pay for cheating off of him, that’s the Calderon I want back. I was talking to a Raptors fan over a few the other day and he told me that Calderon needs to have the offensive qualities of Deron Williams for us to be successful. I told him that his sixth beverage was taking a toll on his thinking when I realized he’s not that wrong and the gist of his argument is true: We need Jose Calderon to be a scorer as much a passer.

The top scoring PGs in the league all have either a physical or a quickness advantage on any given night. Let’s consider Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Devon Harris, Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups and Derrick Rose. What you’ll be surprised to know is that Jose Calderon at 210 lbs is heavier than any of those players. The closest anyone comes is Deron Williams at 207 lbs but he happens to have a much more developed body. At 6′3″ he’s as tall as any of that bunch with his height matching Rose, Billups, Williams and Harris. Quickness is a subjective issue and the best one can say is that the only players he could even come close to matching is Billups and Williams, the latter because of age and the former because of weight. He’s only younger than Chauncey Billups (33) and Tony Parker (by 5 months).

I wonder if asking Jose to be a scoring threat at this point in his career is too much. Whereas Williams dominates with his strength, Parker with his quickness, Harris with his speed and Billups with shot-making ability, Calderon’s niche on offense is much more hard to locate. He doesn’t have the craftiness to create his own shot like those players and has to rely a lot more on the set pieces making life easier for him. His money-maker so far has been a mid-range jumper and the occasional turn off the screen, not sure if we’re ever going to see anything beyond that from him.

Thoughts on where Calderon can get his points this year?
Source - Jose Calderon the Scorer – Raptors Republic - Raptors Blog ESPN TrueHoop
Dr. J. Naismith is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:15 AM   #2 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

rubbish.

I read the first paragraph. then the last.

Both were ridiculous.

You people who write these "expert blogs" need to spend more time learning the game.

Thats the long and short of it.
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,662
Representing:
Default

that's teh short of it, anyways... perhaps you should have read the rest sj. there are some great points in there. he was a scorer at the end of 2007-8. and we need that from him. we need him to get to the basket and to use the size advantage he has over other pg's. these are all truths and all things that will help this team next year.

it's really quite amazing how much different an article looks when you read more than just just the intro and concluding paragraphs... you know, the contents...?
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

nah.

It's not actually.

When You base your arguments of inaccurate assumptions, all that follows is flawed.

Sorry trane, I just cant get into it
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,662
Representing:
Default

what's the inaccurate assumption that ruins the piece? and what's flawed about pointing out his size advantage over other pg's?
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

from top to bottom there's holes.

same ole BS comments you hear day in and day out.

- he's too safe
- he can't run
- he's not a scorer.


Why do I need to support an article thats based upon idea's that come from a mind that perhaps doesn't really understand the game.

Of all sports, basketball is perhaps the one sports that an athlete is MOST affetd by the personel he's with. Add to that Jose is a pg, and you see the issues straight off.

I'm not saying Jose Calderon is a scoring machine, or a fast break expert. I'm simply pointing out that in every situation he has been out in where he should succeed, he has. Dudes like this guy were crying about how he wasn't pushing the ball enough last year, but pushing it to who????? And at what cost???? It wasn't until Marion came an dhe had a couple horses to run with that Jose started to run, and he ran very well.

Anyway, whatever, people can type what they want, but I ain't buying into thier "expert" blog posts. Not one bit.
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,363
Representing:
Default

I don't think he based shit on inaccurate assumptions, but he did throw them all out there, and they might not all be inaccurate.

My biggest concern is that he doesn't waste chances to convert defensive stops into offensive advantages, instead of insisting on slowing down, pausing and plodding along up the court. If I see any of that he will have lost me forever. It would also be nice to see him play with a level of aggressiveness that allows him to shoot a couple more freethrows per game at least. He absolutely has to put some pressure on the defense at the point of attack.

Much gets said about Bosh needing to show something with a solid lineup like they have now, but I think more can be said about Jose in that regard. If he doesn't return to the form he showed a few years back then is he really a good fit for this team? Probably not. But just as with Bosh, I'm pretty confident that the new faces are going to be a great help, and that a lot of the issues I've had with him in terms of style of play have had more to do with the supporting cast not being there, and yeah - his health.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,662
Representing:
Default

that's not really what the artcile is saying sj. perhaps you should read the whole thing...

it actually says he is a scorer, we just didn't see it last year. it goes on to say that we want to see that kind of jose this year, that a scoring, penetrating jose is a good thing. that he has done these things well, just inconsistently. this is, of course, all true, whether because of his teammates or not. now we have a different team, and it will be interesting to see which of these skills jose shows us, especially considering some of the size mis-matches. i don't understand what's wrong with a piece that talks about this... it's not ground-breaking, but it's certainly not rubbish just because you say it is.
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

I'm not quite sure why you all think that slowing it down isn't a premeditated thing.

The EASIEST thing to do is get out and push the ball.

That so many on here think Jose, or ANY guard in the NBA can't do this if they want, or if they are asked to, astounds me.

Sorry, it just does
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
that's not really what the artcile is saying sj. perhaps you should read the whole thing...

it actually says he is a scorer, we just didn't see it last year. it goes on to say that we want to see that kind of jose this year, that a scoring, penetrating jose is a good thing. that he has done these things well, just inconsistently. this is, of course, all true, whether because of his teammates or not. now we have a different team, and it will be interesting to see which of these skills jose shows us, especially considering some of the size mis-matches. i don't understand what's wrong with a piece that talks about this... it's not ground-breaking, but it's certainly not rubbish just because you say it is.
I didnt say that all of it was rubbish, I just said it was rubbish.



As for this year, we won't know what he's gonna do until we see what Triano and the gang have planned. PG's at that level are basically extensions of the coaching staff. If they say run, he runs, if they say slow it down, he'll do just that.

There's just so much shit I can read about what people think he can or cant do.... it's just not accurate in my opinion.

If a guy posts his opinion on a blog dedicated to sport, in a manner that puts him in a position of expertise, he had better know his shit. That's all. So I call rubbish.

Oddly, if it were Gurk, I'd just say nice post.
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 10:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
A Celtic-Red Sox hater!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 511
Representing:
Default

Calderon hit's wide open jumpers as good as anyone in the game. Turk will assure that he gets a truckload of them. He should outscore his career high this year in less minutes than he has played in the past. He could even lead the league in three point percentage and better Kapono's accomplishments there. His assists may come down a touch with Turk around but Jose will still be more valuable to us with his two pronged role.
tvett6 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 11:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
adoring his baby girl.

Senior Member
 
Sick, Wicked and Nasty!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada eh?
Posts: 3,288
Representing:
Default

But we know that Jose WAS asked to do it by Jay last year and he did not initially respond, because as many believe it's out of his comfort zone. He had to insert the directive that whomever rebounded the ball could outlet to the running wings and not have to look for Jose. That's what it seemed to take to get him going after Marion showed up, because it took weeks for Jose to start looking comfortable playing with the Marion lineup...weeks! To his credit Jose did appear to acclimate himself a bit to the uptempo game in the last couple weeks of the season but it wasn't instant and really it only proved affective against weaker opponents with nothing left to play for. We'll see how he runs things this year.
Sick, Wicked and Nasty! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 11:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
Is The:

Chairman of the Boards
 
gdaytday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,452
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
I'm not quite sure why you all think that slowing it down isn't a premeditated thing.

The EASIEST thing to do is get out and push the ball.

That so many on here think Jose, or ANY guard in the NBA can't do this if they want, or if they are asked to, astounds me.

Sorry, it just does
I bet that you haven't played much point guard. Getting out and pushing the ball is NOT the easiest thing to do. In fact, it is quite difficult. Angling yourself for the optimal outlet pass in itself is not an easy task. Take a look at Steve Nash. He wouldn't win a sprint against many guards in the NBA but he is the best at putting himself into an optimal location for receiving the outlet pass. It's rarely the "outlet" spot that kids are taught when they begin playing the game. He gets himself as far up the floor as he can without making the pass a hazard. He also makes the outlet cut better than any other point guard. You'll notice than when he receives the pass from the rebounder he's gives a great target but also catches the ball on the fly with his head up the floor so that he's not caught in a charge or steal position.

It's not as easy as catch the ball and run.
gdaytday is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 11:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

I was actually really effin good on the break to be honest.

Most Hockey kids were, I was more comfortable running the floor than in the half court.

Anyhow.

Good thread boys....
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 12:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 74,928
Representing:
This PG tandom (Jose/Jack) should average 20+PPG, 12-13APG.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 12:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
Waiting for DD's 1st in game wind mill Dunk

Senior Member

 
halphbreedballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: T.O.
Posts: 4,787
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
This PG tandom (Jose/Jack) should average 20+PPG, 12-13APG.
True dat!!

By the way u know that Janet doesn't look like your avi anymore don't ya?

She has gained like 20 pounds...At least from what I saw during the Michael Jackson ceremonies.
halphbreedballer is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 12:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

Janet Jackson is a disaster
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 12:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,363
Representing:
Default

Anyway - since when does blogging have anything to do with any kind of credentials, let alone expertise? A blogger needs to be an expert at having his or her own thoughts and communicating them fairly well. That's the only real bar to get over. It's up to us to take from it what we can or will, and there was a good amount in this piece to take away and work with in terms of merging my own ideas with.

I do get the angst over stuff getting expressed as a sort of assumed consensus. That happened all the time with the anti-Sam crowd, and I always fought it, as did some others. But that was only there in the first paragraph, and it does reflect the idea of a blogger having an audience, so it's not like some kind of terrible crime. Everything said thereafter doesn't flow from that paragraph. It's just a hook to get people to read on, and I guess in some cases it has the opposite effect.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 12:48 PM   #19 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 74,928
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halphbreedballer View Post
True dat!!

By the way u know that Janet doesn't look like your avi anymore don't ya?

She has gained like 20 pounds...At least from what I saw during the Michael Jackson ceremonies.
That pic in my avatar is from 2yrs ago.

This was her last week in Milan:





Almost 44yrs old. Looks good to me.

Last edited by jeffb; 09-28-2009 at 01:03 PM.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toronto Star: Raptors' fiery Jose Calderon silences critics Liston Toronto Raptors 20 11-07-2009 09:34 PM
Jose Calderon Cartoon Nat77 Toronto Raptors 1 10-29-2009 04:20 PM
Chisholm: Where is Jose Calderon? Dr. J. Naismith Toronto Raptors 47 02-21-2009 07:42 PM
Jose Calderon So far..... Superjudge Toronto Raptors 29 01-14-2009 04:57 PM
Player Expectations - Jose Calderon Dr. J. Naismith Toronto Raptors 16 07-15-2008 05:35 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24