Raptors: point guards in the BC era
Old 12-18-2012, 01:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
it's time to empty the trash

Senior Member
 
Raptors1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,022
Representing:
Default Raptors: point guards in the BC era

Quote:
When Bryan Colangelo took over as general manager of the Toronto Raptors in February of 2006 he didn’t waste any time putting his stamp on the roster.

Colangelo quickly made over the team and in his first full season with the Raptors he constructed a club that won the Atlantic Division title in 2007. Ever since that season Toronto has been going downhill as the general manager struggles to find the magic he had in his first year on the job.

One of the areas Colangelo struggles with has been repeated attempts to replace the team’s starting point guard. Since joining the team Colangelo continues to make multiple moves trying to fix a position that has actually been one of the least concerns of the franchise.

Colangelo inherited Jose Calderon and for one reason or another has never viewed him as an acceptable starter for the Raptors.

His first major trade with Toronto was acquiring T.J. Ford. Ford posted career highs in his time as a Raptor, but only lasted two seasons before being shipped off to the Indiana Pacers.

At first Ford appeared to be a wonderful piece but quickly got away from the playmaking that made him successful and decided he wanted to be a scorer. He changed from looking to pass first to looking for his shot first. Meanwhile Calderon was coming off the bench and out playing the starter by taking better care of the ball and passing more while shooting a lot less.

Calderon won the starter’s role in Ford’s final season as a Raptor averaging 11.2 points, 8.3 assists, 1.5 turnovers while shooting 51.9% from the field. It was a no brainer who was the better guard to get the team involved as Calderon was averaging only 8.6 field goal attempts per game compared to Ford’s 15.7 attempts.

A year after the point guard controversy between Ford and Calderon, Colangelo signed Jarrett Jack to a four-year $20 million contract. Calderon got injured and Jack replaced him in the starting line-up even though Calderon still had better numbers. As he watched Jack start more games than he did after recovering, Calderon still had 5.9 assists and 1.5 turnovers compared to Jack’s five assists and two turnovers average.

Having enough of another point guard controversy Jack was traded to the New Orleans Hornets in a deal that brought the team Jerryd Bayless. Bayless came in expected to be a bench player but received some time as a starter. Given his love trading for point guards, Colangelo most likely thought he had a potential steal acquiring the former first round pick but unfortunately things didn’t work out for Bayless in Toronto.

After letting Bayless go this past summer, Colangelo once again made a trade for a new point guard this time using the team’s 2013 first round draft pick to attain Kyle Lowry.

A puzzling move considering that Calderon had just come off a season averaging 10.5 points, 8.8 assists, and three rebounds while committing only two turnovers a game. At the age of only 30, Calderon proved that he could carry the team as the starting point guard and that trading a first round pick would be better served to acquire help in other areas.

Instead Colangelo continued to attempt to upgrade a position the team needed no help in while ignoring the areas the team did. The Raptors havn’t had a decent small forward since the horrific injury to Jorge Garbajosa changed his career forever. Not to mention the team was never able to provide Chris Bosh with a half-decent center to give the power forward a bit of protection down low. Instead the best center he ever had was an aging Rasho Nesterovic who only lasted a couple of seasons.

Despite all the knocks on Calderon for his defense, the team as a whole in his entire Raptor career has been poor at best on the defensive end. If Toronto ever managed to attain a shot blocking center then guards getting by Calderon would actually have something to think about as to oppose to whether they wanted to simply finger roll or sink the lay-up off glass. The Raptors’ point guard is not great on defense but he is no worse than Steve Nash. He is only made to look a lot worse because of how bad the entire Toronto team has been on defense during his time with the team.

Calderon’s name has been mentioned in trade rumors to begin the year as he’s likely to be dealt being in the final year of his contract. However, it remains puzzling as to why so many of Colangelo’s trades involved point guards when the team needed much greater help in several other areas. In fact it can be said that during the Bosh era, the point guard position was the only other area the Raptors ever received consistency from and the major reason for that was Calderon.

Colangelo clearly never had any interest in the most consistent point guard in team history, who continues to play his heart out every time he puts on his Raptors jersey. Now the general manager must hope that over the next six months the pick he traded away doesn’t come back to haunt him, considering he used it to upgrade a position that didn’t need filling.
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/1...been-puzzling/
Raptors1995 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
it's time to empty the trash

Senior Member
 
Raptors1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,022
Representing:
Default

PG spot did need an upgrade long-term. I like Kyle Lowry and think he has the tools to be a great point guard in this league. I'm sick and tired of not having a decent small forward for the longest time. Rasul Buter? Dominic McGuire?:cookie:

I think BC should try to buy low on an SF. Wilson Chandler should be a good pick up. Decent contract and under club control for a number of years. We have the piece(s) to get it done.
Raptors1995 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 7,055
Representing:
Default

is it possible that raptors1995 is the same user as raptor123?

edit: didn't read his second post in the thread. sorry dude. but you have been an avid caldy fan before so...
pzabby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
it's time to empty the trash

Senior Member
 
Raptors1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,022
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
is it possible that raptors1995 is the same user as raptor123?

edit: didn't read his second post in the thread. sorry dude. but you have been an avid caldy fan before so...
What you smoking?? aaahahha avid Caldeon fan? Maybe 5 years ago.
Raptors1995 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 02:04 AM   #5 (permalink)
it's time to empty the trash

Senior Member
 
Raptors1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,022
Representing:
Default

The author of the article provides a good summary of the point guard situation in Toronto under the BC era. I don't agree with what he said regarding not needing a point guard upgrade. Some people get carried away just because caldy drops a triple double. He's right in pointing out that our sf situation has been awful under BC though. Last time we had a decent sf was when chuck anointed Garbo as the "Great Garbo."
Raptors1995 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 02:08 AM   #6 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptors1995 View Post
The author of the article provides a good summary of the point guard situation in Toronto under the BC era. I don't agree with what he said regarding not needing a point guard upgrade. Some people get carried away just because caldy drops a triple double. He's right in pointing out that our sf situation has been awful under BC though. Last time we had a decent sf was when chuck anointed Garbo as the "Great Garbo."
Shawn Marion
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 02:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
it's time to empty the trash

Senior Member
 
Raptors1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,022
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Shawn Marion
We shouldn't have let that one go. At the time, the few teams interested in him could only offer the mid-level so the only way he was moving for more than that was s and trade which is what happend with dallas. We could have got him to sign here at a pretty good price. I liked Turkoglu back then, but at the time I had doubts with him and Jose working out together.
Raptors1995 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 04:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
a Piston Fan !

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,242
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptors1995 View Post
Jose Calderon Shoudn't Be Replaced By the Toronto Raptors
Thank you !!!!:cookie:
raptor123 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 09:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,510
Representing:
Default

Landry Fields..... is going to haunt Colangelo forever. The guy is absolute rubbish. We needed a difference maker at that spot, thank goodness for Anderson, who makes Fields look like a highschooler on the court. We still need to upgrade that spot.... getting tired of saying it too.

Lowry and Bargnani for a stud 3..... or the draft picks to get it done.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 09:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,510
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptors1995 View Post
PG spot did need an upgrade long-term. I like Kyle Lowry and think he has the tools to be a great point guard in this league. I'm sick and tired of not having a decent small forward for the longest time. Rasul Buter? Dominic McGuire?:cookie:

I think BC should try to buy low on an SF. Wilson Chandler should be a good pick up. Decent contract and under club control for a number of years. We have the piece(s) to get it done.
Wilson Chandler might not ba a buy low.... for several reasons. Look at guys leaving D'Antoni's system, look at his injuries mounting, his declining playing time.....
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 11:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
Gam zeh ya'avor

The Gatekeeper
 
MikeToronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,068
Representing:
Default

The author of the article makes some very interesting points. Like, for example, why BC hasn't tried harder to upgrade other positions and see how that'd work out?
MikeToronto is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 11:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeToronto View Post
The author of the article makes some very interesting points. Like, for example, why BC hasn't tried harder to upgrade other positions and see how that'd work out?
He's drafted 2 SG's, aquired a tone of PF's (drafted two of them), added JO to try and upgrade the Center position, drafted our supposed Center of the future. I agree though about the SF position, that's been a disaster here for years.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
it's time to empty the trash

Senior Member
 
Raptors1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,022
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Wilson Chandler might not ba a buy low.... for several reasons. Look at guys leaving D'Antoni's system, look at his injuries mounting, his declining playing time.....
I'd try to pick him up for Amir and a 2nd rounder. That IMO would be a fair offer. He's obviously not the same player as in Dantoni's system statistically at the moment. After he left, his numbers did go down. On average in Den, he's around 11 points 5 rebs, 1 block, and close to 1 steal, which is still pretty decent. Is he the answer long-term as the starter? Probably not. But I can see him giving us some temp relief at that spot and his contract wouldn't be bad for someone who comes off the bench. However, they could easily ask for more knowing how desperate we are for help at that position.
Raptors1995 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptors1995 View Post
I'd try to pick him up for Amir and a 2nd rounder. That IMO would be a fair offer. He's obviously not the same player as in Dantoni's system statistically at the moment. After he left, his numbers did go down. On average in Den, he's around 11 points 5 rebs, 1 block, and close to 1 steal, which is still pretty decent. Is he the answer long-term as the starter? Probably not. But I can see him giving us some temp relief at that spot and his contract wouldn't be bad for someone who comes off the bench. However, they could easily ask for more knowing how desperate we are for help at that position.
I wouldn't even touch Chandler right now. He's barely played this season due to injuries (4GP).
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,510
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
I wouldn't even touch Chandler right now. He's barely played this season due to injuries (4GP).
Wow... never thought I'd read you saying that.

I agree, but I kind of knew he was fool's gold last year too.

:cookie:
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
it's time to empty the trash

Senior Member
 
Raptors1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,022
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
I wouldn't even touch Chandler right now. He's barely played this season due to injuries (4GP).
I wouldn't do the trade without getting the health reports/MRI/physical and so on given the length of his contract. We would have to evaluate how he comes back from a few games as well. But I wouldn't say his career is over yet. Only Denver would know the exact extent of his injury.
Raptors1995 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 10,417
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Shawn Marion
so we didn't want marion because he was due to make 10+ in his last 2 years of his contract, even though he would have been close to matching his salary in his first 3 seasons, and now you want him ONLY in those 2 final years?

come on, marion is not a 10 million player anymore, dallas would give him for free if anybody would be willing to absorb that salary. Sure, he's an upgrade over pietrus, but our SF of the future he is not ...
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 01:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
so we didn't want marion because he was due to make 10+ in his last 2 years of his contract, even though he would have been close to matching his salary in his first 3 seasons, and now you want him ONLY in those 2 final years?

come on, marion is not a 10 million player anymore, dallas would give him for free if anybody would be willing to absorb that salary. Sure, he's an upgrade over pietrus, but our SF of the future he is not ...
I didn't say aquire him.

I said he was the last decent SF we had.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 06:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
Keep it simple

Senior Member
 
Dario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,614
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Dario
Default

so we traded marion for JO, and Mitch thought we had the twin towers, then it was gg
Dario is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 06:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dario View Post
so we traded marion for JO, and Mitch thought we had the twin towers, then it was gg
We traded JO for Marion, then S&T Marion for Turkoglu. A year later Turkoglu was dealt for Barbosa.

jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24