Raptors overrate their players
Old 11-26-2009, 06:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Raptors overrate their players

It's my opinion that toronto tends to overrate their players or set the expectations too high and then get upset when they aren't met when really we set them unrealistly high. for example:

1) Calderon had a breakout year when he came off the bench and schooled the opposing teams back up points. we then make him our starting pg and isn't meeting are expectations. but in reality, Calderon is a very very good back up point guard. but is by no means a starter in this league or a starter on a team that wants to go deep in the playoffs.

2) Bargnani was the 1st overall pick so expectations are high and reasonably so. but after all these years, when is it time to face it and accept this is what he will ever be? so far all hes shown is that he is a one dimensional player and that one dimension is "mediocer" and "good" on some nights. it is nowhere "very good" let alone "great". there aren't any signs that he will gain other dimensions to his game anytime soon.

3) we gave hedo an all-star type contract for someone who has never been an all-star and never will be.

4) we label Bosh a franchise player but he is no leader. he takes way to many jumpers and is soft. he is not someone we give the ball to for the winning shot.

what do you guys think??
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
It's my opinion that toronto tends to overrate their players or set the expectations too high and then get upset when they aren't met when really we set them unrealistly high. for example:

1) Calderon had a breakout year when he came off the bench and schooled the opposing teams back up points. we then make him our starting pg and isn't meeting are expectations. but in reality, Calderon is a very very good back up point guard. but is by no means a starter in this league or a starter on a team that wants to go deep in the playoffs.

2) Bargnani was the 1st overall pick so expectations are high and reasonably so. but after all these years, when is it time to face it and accept this is what he will ever be? so far all hes shown is that he is a one dimensional player and that one dimension is "mediocer" and "good" on some nights. it is nowhere "very good" let alone "great". there aren't any signs that he will gain other dimensions to his game anytime soon.

3) we gave hedo an all-star type contract for someone who has never been an all-star and never will be.

4) we label Bosh a franchise player but he is no leader. he takes way to many jumpers and is soft. he is not someone we give the ball to for the winning shot.

what do you guys think??
i dont think hedo got an all-star type contract tbh, and Bosh isnt a franchise player, nor a leader.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Really to 1,2,3 I think you dont know what your talking about.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Really to 1,2,3 I think you dont know what your talking about.
care to explain urself?
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Bosh to me, has been our lone warrior, thus far this year. In pre games, while all the young guys are joking and cajoling around, you look at Bosh and he's got his warrior game face on. He's the epitomy of focus and if everyone else had his focus, we would be mountains better. I'm convinced that without him, we would be sitting at a couple of wins. How anyone could blame Chris for our issues this season is beyond me.

Our biggest problem is that outside of Chris and perhaps Amir, everyone else has been absolutely atrocious on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm a huge Bargs fan but even i will say his defence has regressed significantly from last season and he needs to turn it back around. The coaching staff needs to stop telling Jose to direct his opponent baseline and let him square up more and get in the face of his opposing point guard. That standing sideways thing will never allow you to become a good defender. Wright, normally a very good defensive player has been brutal thus far if you compare him to last year, he needs to get healthy and contribute way more defensively. Turk needs to get more active defensively and his injury issues have probably contributed to his lack of defence. He was at least an average defender last year and this year, far from that. Reggie Evans needs to come back and lead these guys by example, they need to watch him to see how active you need to be in your own end. Demar needs to be limited to playing against the opposition team's bench players, not against other team's all-stars. Jack is starting to play a little better at both ends of the floor, however he was brutal at both ends until a couple of games ago.

Lots of improvement needs to happen. The coaches allways talk about preparing for the next game, they need to prepare and plan for both games when a back to back is on the burner, otherwise you get blown out in the second game, every time. If players aren't able to grasp two games of different defensive philosophies than we probably need to get some new players with higher BBIQ's.

I'm not a big fan of our whole defensive system. All this directing guys to help works fine when your bigs are great defenders like Boston's. Our bigs are offensive minded bigs and that tells you all you need to know about why that just doesn't work here.

Last edited by tvett6; 11-26-2009 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
It's my opinion that toronto tends to overrate their players or set the expectations too high and then get upset when they aren't met when really we set them unrealistly high. for example:

1) Calderon had a breakout year when he came off the bench and schooled the opposing teams back up points. we then make him our starting pg and isn't meeting are expectations. but in reality, Calderon is a very very good back up point guard. but is by no means a starter in this league or a starter on a team that wants to go deep in the playoffs.

2) Bargnani was the 1st overall pick so expectations are high and reasonably so. but after all these years, when is it time to face it and accept this is what he will ever be? so far all hes shown is that he is a one dimensional player and that one dimension is "mediocer" and "good" on some nights. it is nowhere "very good" let alone "great". there aren't any signs that he will gain other dimensions to his game anytime soon.

3) we gave hedo an all-star type contract for someone who has never been an all-star and never will be.

4) we label Bosh a franchise player but he is no leader. he takes way to many jumpers and is soft. he is not someone we give the ball to for the winning shot.

what do you guys think??

1) Calderon is a better starting PG then 15-20 of the other starting PG's, so calling him a good "backup" is insane.

2) Bargnani has disapointed me the last week or so. He seems to be tentative and lost at times.

3) Hedo Turkoglu didn't get an All-star type contract at all. In fact alot of players make the same money and more that aren't All-stars. He's an above average player getting above average money.

4) I think Bosh is at times a leader, but i don't know if he's a franchise player. As for him not being the guy to go to hit a winning shot, i agree. But that's mainly because of where he plays. Winning shots are usually always hit or taken by guards or SF's, so to ask Bosh to take the final shot is probably asking alot.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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How can you say Jose is a backup, when he was 5th in the league in assists? He isn't an all-star point guard, but his assists and his ability to score 10-15 make him a starter for sure. His defensive inabilities are vastly overstated. His assist-turnover ratio is still top 5 and he makes the correct play 9/10 times.

Bargnani isn't great, but he's a starting power forward on most teams. Sure, defensively he isn't that good, but offensively he can be a nightmare guard.

Hedo, I agree, is overpaid, but to get someone like him to come to Toronto (as well as Jack) you need to overpay him.

Bosh is an all-star who scores and rebounds. Is he a franchise player? I think to some degree he is. Realistically bigmen alone cannot be relied on to hit big shots or lead a team alone. You need someone like Hedo, or LeBron (not comparing them), to do this. I think that Grunwald/Babcock created this team with Carter as the primary scorer/franchise player and Bosh being #2, but it didn't work out. How many bigmen lead their teams to the finals alone? Dirk, Shaq, Howard all have legitimate 2nd hand men. Think about what the team is doing for Bosh as opposed to what Bosh is doing for the team and I think you'll find the answer to whether he's a franchise player or not.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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1) Calderon is a better starting PG then 15-20 of the other starting PG's, so calling him a good "backup" is insane.

2) Bargnani has disapointed me the last week or so. He seems to be tentative and lost at times.

3) Hedo Turkoglu didn't get an All-star type contract at all. In fact alot of players make the same money and more that aren't All-stars. He's an above average player getting above average money.

4) I think Bosh is at times a leader, but i don't know if he's a franchise player. As for him not being the guy to go to hit a winning shot, i agree. But that's mainly because of where he plays. Winning shots are usually always hit or taken by guards or SF's, so to ask Bosh to take the final shot is probably asking alot.
Fair enuff point with the Bosh comment, I'll give you that. But I would have to disagree with what u said on calderon. Here's a quick list of starting pg around the L better than calderon.

Paul
D will
Kidd
Rose
Westbrook
Arenas
Rondo
Nelson
Harris
Parker
Brooks
Nash
Stuckey
Davis
Jennings

There's probably more but these are what I came up with off the top of my head.
And IF u do want to make the argument that he is a good starter. I still think he's not one for a playoff caliber team
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
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care to explain urself?
I would but i would only be wasting my time, JeffB did a good job though

Quote:
1) Calderon is a better starting PG then 15-20 of the other starting PG's, so calling him a good "backup" is insane.


3) Hedo Turkoglu didn't get an All-star type contract at all. In fact alot of players make the same money and more that aren't All-stars. He's an above average player getting above average money.
There, saved myself 10 munites of lost time

Last edited by m5racer; 11-26-2009 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Fair enuff point with the Bosh comment, I'll give you that. But I would have to disagree with what u said on calderon. Here's a quick list of starting pg around the L better than calderon.

Paul
D will
Kidd
Rose
Westbrook
Arenas
Rondo
Nelson
Harris
Parker
Brooks
Nash
Stuckey
Davis
Jennings

There's probably more but these are what I came up with off the top of my head.
And IF u do want to make the argument that he is a good starter. I still think he's not one for a playoff caliber team
Man you should just stop before your too deep. While you go and look at these guys ppg it may look impressive. But why dont you go and look at their FG% for one. All those guys most likely get a few more touches then Calderon per game. Shit a few of those guys are averaging just under 40% per game. Now if you really dont think that calderone is a starting PG, then you should go watch some more basketball
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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All fans overrate their players, especially when they win. They also tend to underrate the same players when they lose. Give a player enough time on any roster in the league ,and most of the time there will be fans who will overrate him, and fans who will underrate him.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm just saying cuz what we want outta this team is more than just a first round exit but I just don't think Calderon can be our man. On any given night the opposing pg is better. And if u look at playoff teams pg, where does Calderon rank? And I'm not even looking at stats. I'm just going by how well of a floor general they are and ability to do what it takes for their team to win
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Dont worry Panda.............it can be a tough crowd around here when it comes to talking about the Raps players lol. I like the peeps intensity when it comes to their local team but I totally agree with everything you wrote and I do not think you need to go watch more basketball games! This is same group who during the Charlotte game were talking smack about what a horrid team and players the Bobcats had and then went on to kick the living shit out of us in every single way. Have fun and get tied on!
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Everyone tends to overrate their team's players.

That's what fans are supposed to do!

Except those fans who are never happy unless they are complaining.
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