Raptors officially hire Jeff Weltman - Page 2
Old 07-10-2013, 08:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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What do you expect from the management team, to say publicly that our goal is to trade all our good players and tank? Ainge recently said that Boston is too proud to tank and then proceeded to trade his two best players for picks. And I wouldn't be surprised if rondo will take a reaaaaly long time to recover from his ACL injury.
Not sure if I should bother replying to you, after what you've been posting... but wouldn't you think instead of suggesting that they're going to keep the team to see what they can do next season... They'd still be vague and say "trying to build a championship, getting into the playoffs is easy" etc... all that stuff. Don't see the vagueness anymore. It seems anti-tank to me. But from your post I'm getting if the management comes out and says "WE ARE GOING TO KEEP OUR GUYS. NO TANK,GOING TO SEE WHAT THIS TEAM CAN DO" You're going to say "BOSTON SAID IT AND LIED! THEREFORE WE WILL TOO". Yea, I'm getting to the point... I think you're delusional and there is no point of arguing with you anymore.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:27 AM   #22 (permalink)
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read you post twice and still have no clue what you think I was trying to say.

I thought it was a fairly clear point - tanking or no tanking, we'll always claim we're not tanking. You can try reading between the lines all you want, my Boston example what to show you that both tanking and non-tanking teams will say the same thing. Only their actions clearly reveal their intentions.

I never said that his comments imply we're tanking, only that they are inconclusive.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:33 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Yea yea, you disagree cause you think tanking is the only way for championship. And you like to think that, cause you're arrogant and think your way is the only way.
Championship is still the goal. They know it's not going to be this season however.
What did Masai or Leiweke say that led you to believe that we were going to be a treadmill team?
Don't bring up anything about weltman, because in case you were too focused on promoting an agenda to see it, I very clearly said that they may have re-evaluated the situation and decided that that was the way to go.

The only arrogant one here is you. Clearly, when you try to infer things based on what you hear, there will be some opinion involved, but you clearly only deal with absolutes and everyone else who disagrees with you is "delusional".

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Old 07-11-2013, 06:34 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Saying that there is a two year window to make changes after evaluating, that they want to build from a position of winning, move in a positive direction, and that they don't want to throw players away, offers ample evidence of not committing to some kind of race to the bottom. If you guys want to stress the importance of real intent, then maybe wait until the team is trashed or the season at least begins. We all get that you want to lose now, but that isn't happening until they start playing games, so maybe just keep dreaming until then.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Saying that there is a two year window to make changes after evaluating, that they want to build from a position of winning, move in a positive direction, and that they don't want to throw players away, offers ample evidence of not committing to some kind of race to the bottom. If you guys want to stress the importance of real intent, then maybe wait until the team is trashed or the season at least begins. We all get that you want to lose now, but that isn't happening until they start playing games, so maybe just keep dreaming until then.
If taken at face value (which is what I was disputing), sure - the comments to indicate they are in no rush to tank right away. But even if the decision is we will NOT trade any of the key players even if we get good pro-tanking deals (or at least UNLESS we get those deals), it still doesn't mean all that much. When the guy says they will take 2 years to evaluate the situation, do you honestly believe that. Say we start the season 12-25, you expect TL and MU to continue the evaluation process?

On the flip side, say you do want to tank right away, but are concerned about the NBA perceiving us as desperate to get rid of our good players (leading to ridiculous offers like Detroit's for Gay)? What would you say then? Personally, I would probably say the same thing Jeff said, we're not tanking, we're not rebuilding, we're trying to evaluate the situation, we value our players very much, thank you. And no, I would not be vague about it, because I want to instill fear in those teams that maybe covet our players, try to get them to think they may not be available after all.

All I claimed in my post was that only actions would reveal the true intentions. The few things we did so far point, at best, to us being in holding mode. Short term contracts on rotation and borderline rotation players and trading Bargnani for draft picks - these are the only facts.

Finally, even if we don't do anything else until the training camp, we still can't be sure of the direction. They may very well wish desperately to tank, but there were no good deals to be had. I'm very much pro-tanking, but even I would definitely not want to give away our players just for the sake of being bad.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:24 PM   #26 (permalink)
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What did Masai or Leiweke say that led you to believe that we were going to be a treadmill team?
Don't bring up anything about weltman, because in case you were too focused on promoting an agenda to see it, I very clearly said that they may have re-evaluated the situation and decided that that was the way to go.

The only arrogant one here is you. Clearly, when you try to infer things based on what you hear, there will be some opinion involved, but you clearly only deal with absolutes and everyone else who disagrees with you is "delusional".
I didn't say based on the fact he disagrees with me he's delusional. I said what else he was saying lead me to think he was. Such as signing Tyler was a tanking move, everything to him - even if someone apart of the Raptors says "we want to see what this team can do this season " and he took it as "they're lying, like BOS did" yea to me that sounds delusional. And I think he said Rudy Gay could be 2nd best SF?

And you said the aim, by Masai, in the begging was to build a championship team. Then you stated they re-evaluated and are happy with 7th seed at best. By saying that you're saying that the course of sticking this team together isn't a way to build a championship team in the long run. Cause to you, the only way to build a championship team is tanking this year to get someone like a Wiggins or anyone else in the top few selections in the draft. So in other words- Masai decided not to build a championship team cause he didn't tank (your idea, your way of thinking) to me, that's arrogant. Cause you think it's your way is the only way. I'm anti-tank but I've said multiple times that it's possible, like CLE is doing it, and OKC. But from your statements you don't think it's possible to get a championship team from keeping this team together in the long run.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:44 PM   #27 (permalink)
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To me it seems that MU is saying that we are going to build on the fly. He is aware that this draft is very good and he will try to trade for pics rather than tanking (just speculation on my part). He is not going to be lowballed with offers though. And if the right deal comes our way he will pull the trigger.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:59 PM   #28 (permalink)
making funny and strange dark trade in his mind !!!

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i think he is smart. he has waited to watch over every trade or FA signing each team made.
that's smart because at the end of the summer he will have a good idéa of whom will be good enough to go to the playoffs and whom will not, and if he wait a little more he will see whom will try to go to the playoffs and need what he has to offer in exchange for picks.
So he can target the last ones to make trade with.

and i think he don't see this team as bad as so many see here. so he could have time to evaluate which way to go !
on the fly with that roster is the best to do, no rush like he said. be patient.

hard for us, fair enough.
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