Are the Raptors losing $$$$
Old 02-12-2010, 08:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Are the Raptors losing $$$$

I would assume we're right around breaking even. But this might not bode well for MLSE going over the tax threshold next season or down the road?

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"The economic climate, we've taken much less of a hit than most businesses,'' Stern said. "So we're not complaining.''

A source close to the negotiations, though, did say 25 to 27 of the 30 NBA teams will lose money this season, and owners are willing to play hardball in negotiations because they would lose more money under the current CBA by playing a season rather than not playing.

The source called the teams making money the Los Angeles Lakers, New York Knicks and Chicago Bulls. The source said the Boston Celtics and the Los Angeles Clippers could also end up making money.

With the trade deadline next Thursday, Stern also was asked to clarify whether Washington could deal suspended guard Gilbert Arenas. While it's highly unlikely anybody would now take Arenas, suspended for the rest of the season along with teammate Javaris Crittenton for having guns in the locker room, Stern said he knows of no rule that would prevent it.

"I think the answer to that is yes,'' he said.
NBA Team News, Scores, Standings, Schedules, Stats & Transactions
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I never thought MLSE would go into Luxury Tax anyways.

Also, these businesses are famours for showing a loss. I'm pretty sure Raps are making money beyond what the book says.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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no way we're losing money, that's just stern trying to paint a bleak image in advance of the cba talks.

tv rights are unchanged since last season, as they are locked in. And we're selling almost as many tickets, and the prices haven't decline this season. And the canadian dollar is almost at parity.

We must be making millions even before the luxury payouts are handed to the well-behaved (financially) teams.
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Old 02-13-2010, 03:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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As it goes:

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Old 02-13-2010, 08:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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this year the Raps are losing money for sure
ad money isn't top 10, 13th in attendance and spending up to the cap limit
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Windex View Post
this year the Raps are losing money for sure
ad money isn't top 10, 13th in attendance and spending up to the cap limit
attendance continues to grow as the we keep getting better. They are paying the price from last year still cause apparently something like 10% of season ticket holders did no renew.

Hard to say we are loosing money when crowds of 18,000 come out to see philly
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Windex View Post
this year the Raps are losing money for sure
ad money isn't top 10, 13th in attendance and spending up to the cap limit
Yeah they're a whoping 260 tickets sold from beind 10th, give me a break. Please, we're averaging nearly 18,000 per game. This team isn't losing money. We'll be top 10 in average attendance in the NBA by the end of the season.
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah they're a whoping 260 tickets sold from beind 10th, give me a break. Please, we're averaging nearly 18,000 per game. This team isn't losing money. We'll be top 10 in average attendance in the NBA by the end of the season.
its also the price of tickets
even if we sell the same amount as they Lakers their prices are 30%, so they make more money
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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its also the price of tickets
even if we sell the same amount as they Lakers their prices are 30%, so they make more money
Lakers make more money to begin with. That has nothing to do with it. A team that averages nearly 18,000 per game isn't losing money.
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Lakers make more money to begin with. That has nothing to do with it. A team that averages nearly 18,000 per game isn't losing money.
it said 3-5 teams making a profit this year and 10 teams have attendance over 18,000 (Raps not one of them)
so you logic is flawed
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:35 AM   #11 (permalink)
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No real big deal if Raps break even or losing money because the other half of MLSE is the Leafs and we all know how they fare.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Windex View Post
it said 3-5 teams making a profit this year and 10 teams have attendance over 18,000 (Raps not one of them)
so you logic is flawed
Windex the thing is most people don't believe this article. Sports teams for decades have been crying poor to put a strangle hold on the Union. Also, the Raptors make the core of their cash in the ACC on the lower bowl and boxes. Attendance in these sections have been very good to them this year thank you very much. Lastly, a team that draws like the Raptors do with 2 guranteed playoff home dates couple with a pretty expensive ticket (I know its not as big as the Lakers, Bulls or Knicks) their is no way I see them losing money on the team.

Its also opportunity lost rather than opportunity cost. If the Raptors even did break even they are filling up 41 dates a year for the team. Much better situation than having 0 dates.
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Old 02-13-2010, 07:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It really is hard to believe any of those numbers. Mainly because we have not been given any numbers. We have just been given a broad unsupported statement.

For the Raptors I really doubt they are losing money. MLS has spent a lot of money on the ACC (new screens and other renovations). If the Raptors and the leafs are paying for those renovations they will definitely be “losing money”. But these expenses really belong to the building are would be paid for over many years. If they are not counting that dept on the Raptors and leafs, then does that mean that the concession stand revenue is not being counted either?

One would assume that many of their expenses like interest on debt are much less today than they were a couple of years ago. They likely have been able to renegotiate deals with their suppliers who are desperate to keep large contracts.

Teams do not mind a small operational lost if they make the playoffs. I could be wrong but I assume the players don't get paid for playoff games. A few playoff games would put a number of teams into the black. One of the teams listed that may make money is the Clippers... if they “turn it around” it won’t be if they make the playoffs. It is funny the Clippers who are the 3rd tenant in their building may make money.

The teams listed that are making money are likely the ones who make so much money that they cannot shuffle the numbers enough to make it seem as if the team is losing money (sorry for the run on sentence).

This is league posturing. Trying to prove that they cannot make money the way the system is setup today. Which may have been true if it was not for their amazing tv deal.
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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they are probably around break even because of the prices of tickets being off set by the low attendance. but as long as they are around B/E they should be fine since the any losses are covered by the 2000000% gain from leaf sales.
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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low attendance?
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by komot View Post
they are probably around break even because of the prices of tickets being off set by the low attendance. but as long as they are around B/E they should be fine since the any losses are covered by the 2000000% gain from leaf sales.
Low attendance?

They average about 700 less then the loafs do. Merchandising/revenue is a different story though.
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:07 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex View Post
it said 3-5 teams making a profit this year and 10 teams have attendance over 18,000 (Raps not one of them)
so you logic is flawed
don't believe everything that you read

NBA teams make a ton of money - they just spend everything they make. Sure, the Raptors might lose money on paper. Because, as a business, they spend the profit from bball on other things, like the condos they're building next to the arena. If they would count just basketball related expensese and revenues, 25+ of the nba teams should make money.
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