And Raptors Fans Want Marion Here? - Page 2
Old 01-09-2009, 12:56 PM   #21 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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Default so that is what makes a great point guard

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jose cant even make alley-oop passes consistantly. he's thrown away the ball doing that around 10 times already this year. thats probably why he doesnt try it that often.

guys run the floor all the time with their arms raised calling for the ball.
and what ugo is saying is true. they look fed up with not getting the ball.

its not even jose who passes the ball inside. more times its someone else on the team.
note to bryan collangelo - go find a guy who makes great alley oop passes as stress thinks that is why jose is a lousy point guard.

come on stress. the alley oop is a low percentage play at best and how many do you actually see in a game? one maybe 2 attempts? there are reasons why and a lot of why this team doesn't do them is because our guys don't look back door much, can you please try and make better arguments than "he can't make an alley oop pass" as he has made several this year and most of the "missed" ones have been stopped at the rim not tossed away...
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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Honestly, the knocks on Jose right now are hilarious. Simply hilarious.

Every PG in the league misses guys on alley oops. I've seen Deron miss them to Kirilenko numerous times. It happens and if we were examining every PG in the game we'd see the same flaws. No one is perfect.
The problem as has been reiterated is our wing play is not good enough. Plain and simple. Jamario and Joey are below avg. to avg. players at best. They're not good transition players as well. Alot of you guys are saying its the PG who needs to run a transition game. How can this happen when the guys you're going to pass to are terrible? Look at the best teams in the league, those who push the ball and the one thing you'll notice is their wing guys are freakishly athletic and are guys who can also hit a pull up jumper or make the smart pass when they're cut off. Who on our team can do this? Jamario? Joey? No.

Jose runs the offense through our bigs and when our bigs are running in transition we look a lot better. When our bigs are slow or are behind the play we look terrible.

Alot of this criticism is hilarious.

Jose's biggest weakness is his defense. His lateral quickness is severely lacking and that's something he HAS to work on in the offseason. The rest? He's fine.
jose is and will be a good point guard in this league for a very long time, 28 posts until i hit 1000 what a day!
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
right.

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you guys are fucking hilarious.
he's not a good passer, he's a safe passer.

ofcourse guys miss on alley oops but jose misses poorly.
the alley oop shouldnt be a huge part of any teams game. im just stating the facts.

just an example...
tj was a good passer. Calderon is a safe passer.

im getting up to 600 posts myself.
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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well, let's keep em coming then stress this has been two very fun discussions

33
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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oops, 36
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:11 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by takman_777 View Post
oops, 36
1 + 1 is 2
2 + 2 is 4.


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Old 01-09-2009, 01:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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ugh, i can't even subtract any more... 24 lol
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by StresS View Post
you guys are fucking hilarious.
he's not a good passer, he's a safe passer.

ofcourse guys miss on alley oops but jose misses poorly.
the alley oop shouldnt be a huge part of any teams game. im just stating the facts.

just an example...
tj was a good passer. Calderon is a safe passer.

im getting up to 600 posts myself.
So, now we're juding on a merit of poor I take it?

TJ was a good passer when he didn't force things which happened too many times. TJ had two things going for him:

1. A strong pull up jump shot

2. His speed.

He ran transition well because of those two facets, he was able to out run almost any guard, save for Devin Harris, and find the trailing person more often than not. Also when he did make the outlet pass, if his man cut him off, the wing was able to shoot it back to TJ who had a terrific mid range game with his pull up. Made the transition easier. TJ was able to hid our deficencies (sp) really, really, really well in the transition game b/c of these two facets of his game and his speed was the biggest asset. Not a lot of PGs have his speed and it helped our wings out.

But a good passer? No. He was average to maybe above average. Many of his passes, I'd argue happened when he trapped himself or was looking to bail himself out. But this isn't a TJ v. Calderon thing so I want to stop that.

And really, I'm tired of always reading safe v. risky pass. It's semantics. No one can really define it and it's entirely subjective.

Calderon runs this team fine. I'd argue that he was running it really well prior to getting injured (hamstring injury in the Olympics forcing him to miss games and at the beginning of the season) he was looking real good again. But of course, if we're simply looking to hate on a player we'll blame them for everything save for the obvious. It almost reminds me of the hate Smitch got.
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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So, now we're juding on a merit of poor I take it?

TJ was a good passer when he didn't force things which happened too many times. TJ had two things going for him:

1. A strong pull up jump shot

2. His speed.

He ran transition well because of those two facets, he was able to out run almost any guard, save for Devin Harris, and find the trailing person more often than not. Also when he did make the outlet pass, if his man cut him off, the wing was able to shoot it back to TJ who had a terrific mid range game with his pull up. Made the transition easier. TJ was able to hid our deficencies (sp) really, really, really well in the transition game b/c of these two facets of his game and his speed was the biggest asset. Not a lot of PGs have his speed and it helped our wings out.

But a good passer? No. He was average to maybe above average. Many of his passes, I'd argue happened when he trapped himself or was looking to bail himself out. But this isn't a TJ v. Calderon thing so I want to stop that.

And really, I'm tired of always reading safe v. risky pass. It's semantics. No one can really define it and it's entirely subjective.

Calderon runs this team fine. I'd argue that he was running it really well prior to getting injured (hamstring injury in the Olympics forcing him to miss games and at the beginning of the season) he was looking real good again. But of course, if we're simply looking to hate on a player we'll blame them for everything save for the obvious. It almost reminds me of the hate Smitch got.
a risky pass = a pass in traffic
a safe pass = open teammate, no traffic
to make a successful "risky pass" you need to be a good passer

im not saying jose isnt a good passer because he doesnt make risky passes im saying ive seen him in those situations and he doesnt come out of them well and neither do alot of other PG's because theyre simply not good passing the ball in those situations.
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:42 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by StresS View Post
a risky pass = a pass in traffic
a safe pass = open teammate, no traffic
to make a successful "risky pass" you need to be a good passer

im not saying jose isnt a good passer because he doesnt make risky passes im saying ive seen him in those situations and he doesnt come out of them well and neither do alot of other PG's because theyre simply not good passing the ball in those situations.
1) read my post in the other thread
2) Jose many turns the corner, drives to the net and when defenders collapse kicks it out for a corner 3....is that not considered a risky pass?
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:53 PM   #31 (permalink)
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1) read my post in the other thread
2) Jose many turns the corner, drives to the net and when defenders collapse kicks it out for a corner 3....is that not considered a risky pass?
not if you know AP is going to be wide open in the corner.

but who am i to say what a risky pass is?
i definately dont consider that to be one though.
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:58 PM   #32 (permalink)
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not if you know AP is going to be wide open in the corner.

but who am i to say what a risky pass is?
i definately dont consider that to be one though.
But its a term you keep throwing around.

SO what is it?

would it be when Joey is charging down the middle of the court in transistion with a man waiting for him inside the free throw line, you leed the pass to him so that he catches it right before crashing into the defender for an offensive foul?

Or would it be when Moon is breaking down the wing, cutting back in to the net leaving a man between him and Jose,... should Jose throw the lob even though the defender is obviously going to make a play and take it away?

The team is just purging the Mitchell out of their system, just starting to learn how to break. Give Jose a chance to play with the new style of "breaking out".
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:09 PM   #33 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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But its a term you keep throwing around.

SO what is it?

would it be when Joey is charging down the middle of the court in transistion with a man waiting for him inside the free throw line, you leed the pass to him so that he catches it right before crashing into the defender for an offensive foul?

Or would it be when Moon is breaking down the wing, cutting back in to the net leaving a man between him and Jose,... should Jose throw the lob even though the defender is obviously going to make a play and take it away?

The team is just purging the Mitchell out of their system, just starting to learn how to break. Give Jose a chance to play with the new style of "breaking out".
let's get smitch out of this team and see what happens... we have not lost games because our offense is the issue most nights. we lose games because our wings get eaten for lunch, if you expect JM and Joey and even jason to run the floor, you better be ready to handle the 110 a night we will surrender doing it. Jose is doing a great job and will and roko are playing HIS style right now and we are having success.. let's enjoy that, please
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:15 PM   #34 (permalink)
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roko plays like calderon???
thats ridiculous.
roko is quick, penetrates and plays defense.
he's the croatian TJ.

solomon is just taking taking what the defense gives him(atleast trying)
something Calderon does but isnt exclusive to just jose. solomon is bigger, faster and a better defender.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:19 PM   #35 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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so the fact that they were turnover machines is a good thing? now that they aren't turning the ball over, we are winning so we can get rid of jose? wow that is interesting...
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:21 PM   #36 (permalink)
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roko plays like calderon???
thats ridiculous.
roko is quick, penetrates and plays defense.
he's the croatian TJ.

solomon is just taking taking what the defense gives him(atleast trying)
something Calderon does but isnt exclusive to just jose. solomon is bigger, faster and a better defender.
Jose is 6 foot 3 210lbs
Solomon is 6 foot 1 195lbs

Hard to prove the fact of who is faster but I'll say Solomon is because Joses been playing on a bad hammy

Solomon defensive rating is 111
Joses defensive rating is 112

So I'll be generous and give you 1 out of 3.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:23 PM   #37 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

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i would be very careful calling anyone on this team a great defender maybe JO or Bargs, but other than that, there are a lot of reasons why we suck man up!
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:26 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Hmmm .... is this guy all about himself or what?
Not sure if you read the blog I did on EA NBA LIVE 09 but the story about Marion wanting to talk about his ratings in the video game I think speaks volumes to the point your making or asking lol.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:32 PM   #39 (permalink)
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at this point, there is no real point except arguing that the Raptors have zero transition game and marion would look great with Jose feeding him marshallows all game long.. 2 threads are discussing this and the merits of jose as our starting pg lots of fun...
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:35 PM   #40 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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He's a massive upgrade over our crap wing players, any way you slice it!
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