Raptor's Draft Ranking of Players - Page 5
Old 04-15-2011, 04:38 PM   #81 (permalink)
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I'm quite confident you are exaggerating him as a defensive liability in order to try and make your argument sound at least half decent. Have you seen him play? It's not like he's a pylon on the court. I think this whole team needs to work on defense. This guy is not going to ruin a team because he is a mediocre defensive player.
again, he's not mediocre. hes just bad. not only that, he lacks the effort and interest to want to play defense. thats the real point!
i'm not exaggerating, if you look at the expert analysis' on him, the knock they all have is his defense, athletic ability, and failure to have a clear position
also, i'm pointing this out for the 3rd time....his teammates have called him out for his laziness on defense! that speaks volumes
so therefore, i do not think its the whole team that needs to work on defense as you've pointed out.
he's not gonna ruin our defense because we are already last place in defense!
and its not about ruining or not ruining. its about drafting a player that can help this team improve. and the only thing that jimmer can contribute is his offense, which will not make our team better overall
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:46 PM   #82 (permalink)
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I'm quite confident you are exaggerating him as a defensive liability in order to try and make your argument sound at least half decent. Have you seen him play? It's not like he's a pylon on the court. I think this whole team needs to work on defense. This guy is not going to ruin a team because he is a mediocre defensive player....My real question is have any of you guys seen him play other then at the tournament (if you even seen him play at the tournament) or are you just basing this on assumptions which have been portrayed because he is 6-2 and an excellent shooter?
Not too many BYU games on TV. I watched the tournament games and the games BYU had with San Diego State. However on all the sites (ESPN, CNNSI ), scouts and writers claimed Jimmer would have time to adjust to the speed of point guards in the NBA, hence alot them have him slated as back-up point guard. I think after watching Jose Calderon for several years, Rap fans can understand the importance of defence on the point guard position, especially with the ability to keep his man in front of you. In our division, where we play each team four times each year, I really don't wan't see Jimmer chasing Rondo, Deron Williams, Jrue Holiday for the next 5-10 years.
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:49 PM   #83 (permalink)
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again, he's not mediocre. hes just bad. not only that, he lacks the effort and interest to want to play defense. thats the real point!
i'm not exaggerating, if you look at the expert analysis' on him, the knock they all have is his defense, athletic ability, and failure to have a clear position
also, i'm pointing this out for the 3rd time....his teammates have called him out for his laziness on defense! that speaks volumes
so therefore, i do not think its the whole team that needs to work on defense as you've pointed out.
he's not gonna ruin our defense because we are already last place in defense!
and its not about ruining or not ruining. its about drafting a player that can help this team improve. and the only thing that jimmer can contribute is his offense, which will not make our team better overall
It seems like you just went to draftexpress.com, read the scouting report and are just reiterating it to me. Like I have mention before he will have a less intensified role and can focus more on his defense. I don't believe he will be an excellent defender ever, but some of the top players in the game aren't great on defense.

Also, if you believe this whole team does not need work on defense I question the legitimacy behind any of your arguments. I think this argument is going nowhere, I will continue to believe that Jimmer is a 6-10 pick and should be considered if we trade down or drop to 5th or 6th pick.
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:52 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Not too many BYU games on TV. I watched the tournament games and the games BYU had with San Diego State. However on all the sites (ESPN, CNNSI ), scouts and writers claimed Jimmer would have time to adjust to the speed of point guards in the NBA, hence alot them have him slated as back-up point guard. I think after watching Jose Calderon for several years, Rap fans can understand the importance of defence on the point guard position, especially with the ability to keep his man in front of you. In our division, where we play each team four times each year, I really don't wan't see Jimmer chasing Rondo, Deron Williams, Jrue Holiday for the next 5-10 years.
to be honest, if you think that after Kyle Irving, we will get a point guard who can compete with them you are mistaken. Kemba Walker and Brandon Knight are two good point guards, but they will not compete with Rondo and D-Will. Regardless of who we draft, I still think at the end of the day Jose are Bayless will be starting opening night next season. I don't know a rookie taking the role of starting point guard on the team right away.
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:58 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DuCa00795 View Post
It seems like you just went to draftexpress.com, read the scouting report and are just reiterating it to me. Like I have mention before he will have a less intensified role and can focus more on his defense. I don't believe he will be an excellent defender ever, but some of the top players in the game aren't great on defense.

Also, if you believe this whole team does not need work on defense I question the legitimacy behind any of your arguments. I think this argument is going nowhere, I will continue to believe that Jimmer is a 6-10 pick and should be considered if we trade down or drop to 5th or 6th pick.
doesn't what the scouts say have more legitimacy and credibility than what you or I have to say? as that is there job and they watch more games when you or I do and know what to look for?
some of the top players aren't great on defense, well ok, but at least they are decent and have other things they contribute to make up for that. there is a reason they are considered "top players" and jimmer isn't one
like RAPMAN said, hes backup pg at best
and what makes you think that having a less intensified role will translate to him focusing more on his defense? thats the point! he doesn't give a shit about defense!

where did i say i think this team doesn't need to work on defense? its because i think this team needs to work on defense that i don't want jimmer here. we don't need more players like that.

i can't wait till draft day when he gets drafted below 10 or next season when his true colors show. i'll be remembering this and say i told you so

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Old 04-15-2011, 05:01 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Jimmer is shit period.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:04 PM   #87 (permalink)
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doesn't what the scouts say have more legitimacy and credibility than what you or I have to say? as that is there job and they watch more games when you or I do and know what to look for?
some of the top players aren't great on defense, well ok, but at least they are decent and have other things they contribute to make up for that. there is a reason they are considered "top players" and jimmer isn't one
like RAPMAN said, hes backup pg at best

where did i say i think this team doesn't need to work on defense? its because i think this team needs to work on defense that i don't want jimmer here. we don't need more players like that.

i can't wait till draft day when he gets drafted below 10 or next season when his true colors show. i'll be remembering this and say i told you so
Legitimacy or credibility? Go check out other mock drafts that have him in the top ten? Or what about the credibility when he got picked as college player of the year? I am not going to argue with you about something to ridiculous, the fact is you are talking on speculation, well I am talking as someone who follows the NCAA like a second religion. I don't see how you can believe so much that Jimmer won't be drafted between 6-10 when you have never seen him play and base your arguments on one draft sites consensus on him.

Do you want some cookies to go with your spoiled milk?

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Old 04-15-2011, 05:11 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Legitimacy or credibility? Go check out other mock drafts that have him in the top ten? Or what about the credibility when he got picked as college player of the year? I am not going to argue with you about something to ridiculous, the fact is you are talking on speculation, well I am talking as someone who follows the NCAA like a second religion. I don't see how you can believe so much that Jimmer won't be drafted between 6-10 when you have never seen him play and base your arguments on one draft sites consensus on him.

Do you want some cookies to go with your spoiled milk?
jimmer is shit. Stop worshipping scrubs who can't do anything but chuck up shots. I really don't want another Bargnani on this team. We're bad enough on defence as it is
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:15 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Why all of you take Kanter before Jonas v? Kanter is not playing for a year now and he just declared he wants to be Andrea Bargnani type of player and a PF. Ha, good luck with that guy.
When did kanter say he wants to be like andrea bargnani? show me where you got this load of BS from. Kanter is projected top 3 pick, this guy is a beast in the paint and will be a great defensive presence in the paint for us that we deperatly need.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:16 PM   #90 (permalink)
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So that's the end of Jimmermania. Saw it for myself. Caught the closing act. Not impressed.

Yes, he scored 32 points, but he took 29 shots to do it. He seemed to be wearing a blindfold from the 3-point arc -- 3-for-15. Plus, he committed six turnovers and wandered aimlessly through the lane on defense like Moses in the desert. I've seen dead people play better defense. At least they occasionally trip people.

If his last college game is what he's bringing to the NBA, then I'd say, in five years, he's got a really good chance to be your Provo area Isuzu dealer.

Don't get me wrong. The Jimmer will make a modest living in the NBA. When he gets hot, he can drain them from the hotel coffee shop. He splits the double team as well as anybody in the league right now and he has a whole Santa bag of off-balance scoop shots with either hand. But until he shows more interest in defense than a blind man has in rainbows, he's going to spend most of his NBA life sitting on padded folding chairs.

"The weird thing is, [his defense] has gotten progressively worse over the year," says Fredette's own teammate, Nick Martineau. "From the start, he's never really been accountable to it, but it's just gotten looser as the year's gone on. But he can play defense. He really can. He'll definitely tighten it up for the NBA."

But you think this barely 6-2 kid with no speed and YMCA hops can be the next Maravich or Ainge or Westbrook?

Fredette about it.

BYU's Jimmer Fredette - ESPN
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:19 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:23 PM   #92 (permalink)
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jimmer is shit. Stop worshipping scrubs who can't do anything but chuck up shots. I really don't want another Bargnani on this team. We're bad enough on defence as it is
Another Bargnani? hahahahaahahah do you Even know who Jimmer is? You're on the verge of trolling. I am just saying.

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So that's the end of Jimmermania. Saw it for myself. Caught the closing act. Not impressed.

Yes, he scored 32 points, but he took 29 shots to do it. He seemed to be wearing a blindfold from the 3-point arc -- 3-for-15. Plus, he committed six turnovers and wandered aimlessly through the lane on defense like Moses in the desert. I've seen dead people play better defense. At least they occasionally trip people.

If his last college game is what he's bringing to the NBA, then I'd say, in five years, he's got a really good chance to be your Provo area Isuzu dealer.

Don't get me wrong. The Jimmer will make a modest living in the NBA. When he gets hot, he can drain them from the hotel coffee shop. He splits the double team as well as anybody in the league right now and he has a whole Santa bag of off-balance scoop shots with either hand. But until he shows more interest in defense than a blind man has in rainbows, he's going to spend most of his NBA life sitting on padded folding chairs.

"The weird thing is, [his defense] has gotten progressively worse over the year," says Fredette's own teammate, Nick Martineau. "From the start, he's never really been accountable to it, but it's just gotten looser as the year's gone on. But he can play defense. He really can. He'll definitely tighten it up for the NBA."

But you think this barely 6-2 kid with no speed and YMCA hops can be the next Maravich or Ainge or Westbrook?

Fredette about it.

BYU's Jimmer Fredette - ESPN
This quote totally contradicts what you are saying. I highlighted what you failed to mention. You're judging him based on one team, and have still not admitted to seeing him play more then that one game. If you don't think he is a 6-10 pick, that's fine by me. But as someone who follows NCAA a lot I do believe he is a 5-10 pick, and think when the day roles around he'll get picked were he belongs. Defense is something he has to work on, but so does more then 3/4's of the NBA. You cannot sit here and tell me that he is the first player to enter a draft and have there defense picked apart.

I think you need to really think about what this argument is, and maybe try to be a little sensible, instead of contradicting your arguments.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:31 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Another Bargnani? hahahahaahahah do you Even know who Jimmer is? You're on the verge of trolling. I am just saying.



Yes i know who he is. And he's crap, he's basically a Bargnani Jr. I don't want another non defensive douche who chucks up 40 bricks a game. If you were our GM we'd be 0 - 82 for the next 20 seasons.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:35 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Yes i know who he is. And he's crap, he's basically a Bargnani Jr. I don't want another non defensive douche who chucks up 40 bricks a game. If you were our GM we'd be 0 - 82 for the next 20 seasons.
I'd like to see a sensible argument built on a comparison between Andrea and Jimmer. Please amuse me. You come in on debate, say someone is shit, and expect anyone to take anything you say with more then a grain of salt. Come on, the Roman's knew better then that. If you want to take notes, you can read through the last few pages about Jimmer, if not then go troll a Sacramento forum, you can complain about their location or something...You'll fit right in.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:36 PM   #95 (permalink)
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This quote totally contradicts what you are saying. I highlighted what you failed to mention. You're judging him based on one team, and have still not admitted to seeing him play more then that one game. If you don't think he is a 6-10 pick, that's fine by me. But as someone who follows NCAA a lot I do believe he is a 5-10 pick, and think when the day roles around he'll get picked were he belongs. Defense is something he has to work on, but so does more then 3/4's of the NBA. You cannot sit here and tell me that he is the first player to enter a draft and have there defense picked apart.

I think you need to really think about what this argument is, and maybe try to be a little sensible, instead of contradicting your arguments.
it doesn't contradict at all. i'm sure he CAN play defense at the college level. but chooses not too. i'll still stand by that i don't think he has what it takes to be even a decent NBA defender, meaning at least won't be a liability. and its not even certain he's willing to want to bother with that part of his game.

my argument this whole time is that he isn't a fit on this team. the fans here are all ready to start a riot with one bargnani. what happens if we add jimmer? things could get really ugly really fast.
yay! we can break our previous mark of worse defence

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Old 04-15-2011, 05:38 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I now wish I'd watched more of Jimmer this year so that I had more context for what you guys are saying. Aside from the NCAA tournament, I only saw him play once against San Diego State (I think).
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:39 PM   #97 (permalink)
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I'd like to see a sensible argument built on a comparison between Andrea and Jimmer. Please amuse me. You come in on debate, say someone is shit, and expect anyone to take anything you say with more then a grain of salt. Come on, the Roman's knew better then that. If you want to take notes, you can read through the last few pages about Jimmer, if not then go troll a Sacramento forum, you can complain about their location or something...You'll fit right in.
why are you so obesessed with jimmer? and i don't want to read 3 pages of crap written by someone like you. What is jimmer good at besides shooting? nothing so calm down
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:47 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Look at guys like Steve Nash, Melo, Bibby, who are all not good defenders. Yet they manage. I think saying we won't draft him because he isn't the greatest defender is a not a great reason. Sure it'll factor in, but that is what training is for, to improve and get better.

Also don't be so naive, when he say's he can play defense, he means that he is a good defender at times. I think you are just playing oblivious to try and defend your point, or else you are really oblivious. Regardless, back to my original statement, I will stick by that if we trade down to a sport between 6-10 I think we should 100% consider Jimmer, Walker and Knight as potential pick. I think that is very reasonable, and I don't see you guys shitting on Walker (whom is shorter then Jimmer) or Knight for their flaws, and believe me their defense is not significantly better then Jimmers.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:49 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Look at guys like Steve Nash, Melo, Bibby, who are all not good defenders. Yet they manage. I think saying we won't draft him because he isn't the greatest defender is a not a great reason. Sure it'll factor in, but that is what training is for, to improve and get better.

Also don't be so naive, when he say's he can play defense, he means that he is a good defender at times. I think you are just playing oblivious to try and defend your point, or else you are really oblivious. Regardless, back to my original statement, I will stick by that if we trade down to a sport between 6-10 I think we should 100% consider Jimmer, Walker and Knight as potential pick. I think that is very reasonable, and I don't see you guys shitting on Walker (whom is shorter then Jimmer) or Knight for their flaws, and believe me their defense is not significantly better then Jimmers.
NO
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:50 PM   #100 (permalink)
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why are you so obesessed with jimmer? and i don't want to read 3 pages of crap written by someone like you. What is jimmer good at besides shooting? nothing so calm down
Dude, you gotta stop trolling this topic. You don't understand what the debate is right now, it's not like I am jumping say let's take him with the first overall pick in the draft. So before you comment anymore just read through some of this "crap" before you waste anymore space on this forum.

Also, Bill, I think you would be impressed by his game. You are a knowledgeable poster, who would understand how much he could help out any team with the type of role he would play.
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