Raptors Cap/Tax Status - Page 7
Old 07-11-2012, 01:14 PM   #121 (permalink)
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np, but are we allowed to backload it, or is it necessary for it to be split equally through out the years?
Equally. No backloading allowed from our end, from a cap point of view anyway.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:55 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
With the release and renouncing of Bayless and Alabi we are under the luxury tax yet remain over the cap so we should have the full MLE. We already had Grays bird rights so,it shouldnt cost the team any of the MLE. I don't really agree with how you're breaking the cap down with assumptions and this whole premise of renouncing all these cap holds. Everything till works while being over. Until the team decides to amnesty JC and not trade him there is absolutely no reason to do what you're suggesting. I actually believe your premise is flawed in this case.
Afaik, no mle unless you start over the cap. The moment you use cap space to sign somebody, it's bye bye mle.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:24 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Afaik, no mle unless you start over the cap. The moment you use cap space to sign somebody, it's bye bye mle.
Yeah, I tried explaining it earlier...

On that note, Doc, now that Fields has officially signed his offer, I think you'll see that all my assumptions were quite correct and grounded in reality and necessity.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:25 PM   #124 (permalink)
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hello Danh, master GM,
if NYK don't match, can we make a sign and trade with fields when we sign him ?
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:38 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Nope. At this point he is either a Knick or a Raptor until Dec 15th at the earliest.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:42 PM   #126 (permalink)
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thanks.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:46 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Yeah, I tried explaining it earlier...

On that note, Doc, now that Fields has officially signed his offer, I think you'll see that all my assumptions were quite correct and grounded in reality and necessity.
That wasn't the point

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Old 07-13-2012, 03:56 PM   #128 (permalink)
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That wasn't the point
I'm curious what the point was.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:16 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Afaik, no mle unless you start over the cap. The moment you use cap space to sign somebody, it's bye bye mle.
I actually said that but you don't have the full MLE while over the tax, which the Raps had to get below (and stay over the cap) to get, otherwise it would have been the mini - hence the renouncing of Bayless and Alabi. Nothing I said stated we were using cap space while being below the cap since if we did we would lose all the exceptions - which was my point. There seems to have been a difference of opinion on how much those exceptions were and which ones we had. I disagreed with DanH's 'assumptions' that we are using the mini or the possibility that the team didn't have the 7.6 Barbosa since it expires next year and the Raps are over the cap. Both the signings and trade can go down in a couple of different ways, the TPE could be renounced or not or maybe it has - and the lynch pin to all of it is going to be JC - if the team keeps him or not or amnesty's him.

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Old 07-13-2012, 04:31 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
I actually said that but you don't have the full MLE while over the tax, which the Raps had to get below (and stay over the cap) to get, otherwise it would have been the mini - hence the renouncing of Bayless and Alabi. Nothing I said stated we were using cap space while being below the cap since if we did we would lose all the exceptions - which was my point. There seems to have been a difference of opinion on how much those exceptions were and which ones we had. I disagreed with DanH's 'assumptions' that we are using the mini or the possibility that the team didn't have the 7.6 Barbosa since it expires next year and the Raps are over the cap. Both the signings and trade can go down in a couple of different ways, the TPE could be renounced or not or maybe it has - and the lynch pin to all of it is going to be JC - if the team keeps him or not or amnesty's him.
The signing of Fields can go down only one way - with cap space.

For cap space to exist, the TPE must be waived, the full MLE must be waived. So your suggestion is impossible if Fields was signed, which we have known for a while he would be.

Given the Fields signing, all my other assumptions were the only possible solutions to the rest of the signings and trades.

Calderon is not a lynch pin for anything except the Gray signing. If Calderon is amnestied, Gray could be signed with cap space. However, since Gray has already agreed to a contract without the Raps committing to clearing any cap space, he has likely agreed to the Room MLE. Not to mention the fact that I've stated several times that all my assumptions were completely valid up until another move was made - amnesty or trade clearing cap space.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:32 PM   #131 (permalink)
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The signing of Fields can go down only one way - with cap space.

For cap space to exist, the TPE must be waived, the full MLE must be waived. So your suggestion is impossible if Fields was signed, which we have known for a while he would be.

Given the Fields signing, all my other assumptions were the only possible solutions to the rest of the signings and trades.

Calderon is not a lynch pin for anything except the Gray signing. If Calderon is amnestied, Gray could be signed with cap space. However, since Gray has already agreed to a contract without the Raps committing to clearing any cap space, he has likely agreed to the Room MLE. Not to mention the fact that I've stated several times that all my assumptions were completely valid up until another move was made - amnesty or trade clearing cap space.
Yawn...ruffle ruffle ruffle
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:35 PM   #132 (permalink)
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I actually said that but you don't have the full MLE while over the tax, which the Raps had to get below (and stay over the cap) to get, otherwise it would have been the mini - hence the renouncing of Bayless and Alabi. Nothing I said stated we were using cap space while being below the cap since if we did we would lose all the exceptions - which was my point. There seems to have been a difference of opinion on how much those exceptions were and which ones we had. I disagreed with DanH's 'assumptions' that we are using the mini or the possibility that the team didn't have the 7.6 Barbosa since it expires next year and the Raps are over the cap. Both the signings and trade can go down in a couple of different ways, the TPE could be renounced or not or maybe it has - and the lynch pin to all of it is going to be JC - if the team keeps him or not or amnesty's him.
Also, your knowledge of the tax-payer's MLE is flawed as well. The cap calculation is done using cap holds. The tax calculation is not - it uses only actual salary and not holds. As such, renouncing Bayless and Alabi would make no impact to whether the full or tax MLE was available.

The only variable in the Raptors' cap equation that would have a tangible impact on their MLE use was whether they used cap space - which they did (and had to) to sign Fields to an offer sheet.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:39 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Also, your knowledge of the tax-payer's MLE is flawed as well. The cap calculation is done using cap holds. The tax calculation is not - it uses only actual salary and not holds. As such, renouncing Bayless and Alabi would make no impact to whether the full or tax MLE was available.

The only variable in the Raptors' cap equation that would have a tangible impact on their MLE use was whether they used cap space - which they did (and had to) to sign Fields to an offer sheet.
.

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Old 07-13-2012, 04:41 PM   #134 (permalink)
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The salary cap will be $58.044 million. That is the same amount it was last season.
The luxury tax threshold will be $70.307 million. That is also the same as last season. Any team whose payroll exceeds the threshold has to pay $1 for every $1 of overage. That money is reimbursed to non-tax-paying teams.
The salary floor, or minimum team salary, is $49.337 million. All teams must meet that minimum, which is 85 percent of the salary cap. Under the previous CBA, the salary floor was 75 percent of the salary cap.
There are three mid-level exceptions to the salary cap available to teams.
The mid-level exception for teams below the cap is $2.575 million.
The mid-level exception for teams below the tax is $5.0 million. This is the conventional mid-level exception.
The mid-level exception for teams above the tax is $3.09 million.

I understand the concept DanH
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:46 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Yawn....
Did I do something to offend you? All I've tried to do is answer the questions and challenges you posed as clearly and concisely as I could. I would have thought that you wanted the clarification, what with you posting such questions in the cap thread I maintain. I guess I misunderstood.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #136 (permalink)
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So this James Johnson trade gives us approximately 2Mil in capspace?


Is that correct? That doesn't give us anything to really work with.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:40 AM   #137 (permalink)
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So this James Johnson trade gives us approximately 2Mil in capspace?


Is that correct? That doesn't give us anything to really work with.
Let me look over the exact numbers - Ross signing his contract may eat up a bit of space.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:53 AM   #138 (permalink)
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I'm still assuming Gray signed for the Room MLE. Two years.

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Kyle Lowry $5,750,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200 (cap hold)
Terrence Ross $2,563,320 (120% of rookie scale)
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Quincy Acy $473,604
12th roster slot $473,604
Aaron Gray $2,575,000 (via Room MLE)

Total: $55,169,333 - 2.9M cap space
Total after Gray: $57,744,333 - 0.3M cap space
Total after Gray if TPE kept: $60,556,339 - 2.5M cap defecit
*TPE would be for $2,912,006

Salary Cap: $58.044 million
Tax Threshold: $70.307 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (before Gray signing):
Jose: 13.0M
Amir: 8.5M
Kleiza: 7.0M

Numbers listed for before Gray signing, as if he is signed with the Room MLE, he must be signed after all cap space moves are done.

JJ leaving really increases the cap space freed up with a Jose amnesty, although that is seeming more unlikely all the time.

Acy signed, in all likelihood for the minimum.

The 12th roster spot's really just a "roster slot" cap hold. If the Raps want to sign a free agent, that amount can be added to the starting salary. For example, in the Jose amnesty example, the starting salary of the player we sign can actually be about 13.5 million, rather than just 13.0 M, due to their salary replacing the roster slot cap hold. But in trades where the number of players remains the same, we do indeed only have 13.0 M in flexibility in that scenario.

As a note, the Raptors could choose not to use any more cap space at this point and instead keep their TPE intact. This is unlikely, as they would need to sign Gray or otherwise fill up some of their cap space before officially completing this trade, but it is a possibility, so I've included it.

Last edited by DanH; 07-16-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:54 AM   #139 (permalink)
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Thanks Dan
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:00 AM   #140 (permalink)
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Quincy Acy: No I'm OFFICIALLY a Toronto Raptor!! Just signed my first contract ... God is Good #TrulyBlessed Photo by quincyacy • Instagram Twitter
seems like acy has signed his contract.
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