Raptors Cap/Tax Status - Page 6
Old 07-07-2012, 10:16 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
The Raps would have to renounce almost everyone that the team has holds and bird rights to. Once that's done the team would have cap space which nullifies the TPE.
They will do this to sign fields, but they just don't have to do it till the 11th.
The reason they released Bayless, was because it allows him to actually find a team before everyone else gets picked up, basically they're being nice.
The rest, shrug, will any of them even be in the nba next year?
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:39 AM   #102 (permalink)
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They will do this to sign fields, but they just don't have to do it till the 11th.
The reason they released Bayless, was because it allows him to actually find a team before everyone else gets picked up, basically they're being nice.
The rest, shrug, will any of them even be in the nba next year?

Being nice? I doubt that. I think they believe they can get him for less than the 4.7mil QO they would otherwise have to pay. There aren't many teams left that will need a PG, and the ones that do have Williams and a couple PG ahead of Bayless. I still think he ends up here for the Mini MLE unless they do not get a desireable offer for Calderon. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Aaron Brooks as our backup. He'd be instant offense off the bench. Which we need imo with players like JJ, Fields, Ross in an unknown.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:18 AM   #103 (permalink)
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The first year of Field's contract is $5M (the final year is $8.5M), so doesn't that mean that we would have enough capspace for a mini MLE once the cap hold on Weems is released?
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:47 AM   #104 (permalink)
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The first year of Field's contract is $5M (the final year is $8.5M), so doesn't that mean that we would have enough capspace for a mini MLE once the cap hold on Weems is released?
that is his proposed contract with NYK, for us it is 6.33 per year.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:58 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Psi View Post
They will do this to sign fields, but they just don't have to do it till the 11th.
The reason they released Bayless, was because it allows him to actually find a team before everyone else gets picked up, basically they're being nice.
The rest, shrug, will any of them even be in the nba next year?
Ok so explain to me why the raps need to renounce everyone we have holds and bird rights too when they have enough between the TPE and mini to absorb Lowry and sign Fields? Only makes sense renouncing all is when you're amnestying JC and you only do that if the team you're trading for absolutely does not want salary back. No need to do either till you know what's going to happen.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:57 PM   #106 (permalink)
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1) A TPE cannot be used to sign Fields. He is a free agent, and only by completing a S+T could we use our TPE to sign him. No way NYK agrees to that after our little scam to screw them out of Steve Nash.

2) The mini MLE is 2.575 M. Nowhere near enough to sign Fields.

3) The TPE could be used to absorb Lowry. However, there is no difference between using a TPE to absorb someone and using cap space to absorb someone. As such, since the Raptors need cap space to sign Fields, it is certain they will use cap space to complete the Lowry trade.

4) To do the moves they are doing this offseason, those player's rights are going to be waived. They've only been carried this far because the Raps haven't gone under the cap in the past 4 seasons.

5) Just FYI Jeff, Bayless' QO was about 4.1M. Not 4.7. Just clarifying as I've seen you refer to it this way a few times.

Last edited by DanH; 07-07-2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:01 PM   #107 (permalink)
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I'm assuming Gray signed for the Room MLE. Two years.

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Kyle Lowry $5,750,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200
James Johnson $2,812,006
Aaron Gray $2,575,000
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Terrence Ross $2,136,100
Sonny Weems $1,059,389 cap hold/QO


Total: $57,666,300 - 0.3M cap space
Total after Gray: $60,241,300 - 2.2M cap defecit

Salary Cap: $58 million
Tax Threshold: $70 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (before Gray signing):
Jose: 10.4M
Amir: 5.9M
Kleiza: 4.5M

Numbers listed for before Gray signing, as if he is signed with the Room MLE, he must be signed after all cap space moves are done.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:39 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
I'm assuming Gray signed for the Room MLE. Two years.

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Kyle Lowry $5,750,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200
James Johnson $2,812,006
Aaron Gray $2,575,000
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Terrence Ross $2,136,100
Sonny Weems $1,059,389 cap hold/QO


Total: $57,666,300 - 0.3M cap space
Total after Gray: $60,241,300 - 2.2M cap defecit

Salary Cap: $58 million
Tax Threshold: $70 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (before Gray signing):
Jose: 10.4M
Amir: 5.9M
Kleiza: 4.5M

Numbers listed for before Gray signing, as if he is signed with the Room MLE, he must be signed after all cap space moves are done.
With the release and renouncing of Bayless and Alabi we are under the luxury tax yet remain over the cap so we should have the full MLE. We already had Grays bird rights so,it shouldnt cost the team any of the MLE. I don't really agree with how you're breaking the cap down with assumptions and this whole premise of renouncing all these cap holds. Everything till works while being over. Until the team decides to amnesty JC and not trade him there is absolutely no reason to do what you're suggesting. I actually believe your premise is flawed in this case.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:19 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
With the release and renouncing of Bayless and Alabi we are under the luxury tax yet remain over the cap so we should have the full MLE. We already had Grays bird rights so,it shouldnt cost the team any of the MLE. I don't really agree with how you're breaking the cap down with assumptions and this whole premise of renouncing all these cap holds. Everything till works while being over. Until the team decides to amnesty JC and not trade him there is absolutely no reason to do what you're suggesting. I actually believe your premise is flawed in this case.
dem fighting words doc.
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:50 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
With the release and renouncing of Bayless and Alabi we are under the luxury tax yet remain over the cap so we should have the full MLE. We already had Grays bird rights so,it shouldnt cost the team any of the MLE. I don't really agree with how you're breaking the cap down with assumptions and this whole premise of renouncing all these cap holds. Everything till works while being over. Until the team decides to amnesty JC and not trade him there is absolutely no reason to do what you're suggesting. I actually believe your premise is flawed in this case.
How does the team sign Fields? Impossible while being over.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:29 PM   #111 (permalink)
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I'll update with Weems being renounced.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:36 PM   #112 (permalink)
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I'm still assuming Gray signed for the Room MLE. Two years.

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Kyle Lowry $5,750,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200
James Johnson $2,812,006
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Terrence Ross $2,136,100
Quincy Acy $473,604
Aaron Gray $2,575,000 (via Room MLE)

Total: $57,080,515 - 0.9M cap space
Total after Gray: $59,655,515 - 1.7M cap defecit

Salary Cap: $58 million
Tax Threshold: $70 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (before Gray signing):
Jose: 11.0M
Amir: 6.5M
Kleiza: 5.5M

Numbers listed for before Gray signing, as if he is signed with the Room MLE, he must be signed after all cap space moves are done.

Weems being let go frees up a little cap space - may just be the team letting him go, may be a housecleaning move, may be freeing up a little wiggle room for a trade.

Oh, and I put Acy in there, but that spot's really just a "roster slot" cap hold. If the Raps want to sign a free agent, that amount can be added to the starting salary. For example, in the Jose amnesty example, the starting salary of the player we sign can actually be about 11.5 million, rather than just 11.0 M, due to their salary replacing the roster slot cap hold. But in trades where the number of players remains the same, we do indeed only have 11.0 M in flexibility in that scenario.

Last edited by DanH; 07-10-2012 at 03:40 PM. Reason: ETA: Explanation of Acy and some details on FA vs trade cap space
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:09 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Ross has also officially signed now. As a draft pick he can be signed before the moratorium is up. No news on his actual contract value (reported generically as rookie scale) but I'm pretty sure it will be the typical 120%. This will cost the team $427,220 in cap space - effectively nullifying the Sonny renouncing, give or take a couple hundred thousand. I won't change the numbers above for now, as it is possible he signed for 100%, but keep it in mind in case you have any trades or signings that come down to the dollar.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:39 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
I'm still assuming Gray signed for the Room MLE. Two years.

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Kyle Lowry $5,750,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200
James Johnson $2,812,006
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Terrence Ross $2,136,100
Quincy Acy $473,604
Aaron Gray $2,575,000 (via Room MLE)

Total: $57,080,515 - 0.9M cap space
Total after Gray: $59,655,515 - 1.7M cap defecit

Salary Cap: $58 million
Tax Threshold: $70 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (before Gray signing):
Jose: 11.0M
Amir: 6.5M
Kleiza: 5.5M

Numbers listed for before Gray signing, as if he is signed with the Room MLE, he must be signed after all cap space moves are done.

Weems being let go frees up a little cap space - may just be the team letting him go, may be a housecleaning move, may be freeing up a little wiggle room for a trade.Oh, and I put Acy in there, but that spot's really just a "roster slot" cap hold. If the Raps want to sign a free agent, that amount can be added to the starting salary. For example, in the Jose amnesty example, the starting salary of the player we sign can actually be about 11.5 million, rather than just 11.0 M, due to their salary replacing the roster slot cap hold. But in trades where the number of players remains the same, we do indeed only have 11.0 M in flexibility in that scenario.

Uggh, what a dry read!
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:50 PM   #115 (permalink)
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landry is at 5 mill for first year
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:00 PM   #116 (permalink)
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landry is at 5 mill for first year
Nope. I've explained this enough times that I think I'll let you go back a page and read it there.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:50 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Ugh - sorry about that. Bad mood I guess. Short answer is that due to the type of restricted free agent Fields is, there are very specific rules for the type of contract that can be offered to him. As such, the first year salary must be matchable by the Knicks (5 M) but the total can be higher than the normal maximum raises would allow. So his offer is structured like 5, 5, 9, give or take. However, for the Raptors, they must have enough cap space to offer the average salary for that contract, because they aren't restricted in the first year like the Knicks are. As such, the cap hit for the Raptors will be about 6.3 M each year, evenly spread out rather than backloaded like for the Knicks.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:54 PM   #118 (permalink)
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The NBA has announced that the salary cap for the 12-13 season is $58.044 million.

The luxury tax level is set at $70.307 million.

The cap is the same as it was for the 11-12 season.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222222/Salary_Cap_Set_At_$58044M_Luxury_Tax_At_$70307M
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:58 PM   #119 (permalink)
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sweet! based off dan's numbers, we're getting an extra 44k to spend!
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:16 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Ugh - sorry about that. Bad mood I guess. Short answer is that due to the type of restricted free agent Fields is, there are very specific rules for the type of contract that can be offered to him. As such, the first year salary must be matchable by the Knicks (5 M) but the total can be higher than the normal maximum raises would allow. So his offer is structured like 5, 5, 9, give or take. However, for the Raptors, they must have enough cap space to offer the average salary for that contract, because they aren't restricted in the first year like the Knicks are. As such, the cap hit for the Raptors will be about 6.3 M each year, evenly spread out rather than backloaded like for the Knicks.
np, but are we allowed to backload it, or is it necessary for it to be split equally through out the years?
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