Raptors Cap/Tax Status - Page 4
Old 07-02-2012, 12:06 PM   #61 (permalink)
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thanks that one point what more claer than before.

another question so :
what is really a cap holds, and how it really works for the capspace or the capacity to acquire a fa in the free agent market ?
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:33 PM   #62 (permalink)
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thanks that one point what more claer than before.

another question so :
what is really a cap holds, and how it really works for the capspace or the capacity to acquire a fa in the free agent market ?
Cap holds exist because of the existence of Bird Rights. Bird Rights allow a team to go over the cap to sign their own free agents. However, what if a team, such as the Raptors, tried to sign another team's free agent with their cap space and then re-sign their own free agents? This is not what Bird Rights are supposed to be for - they are for keeping your team together, not adding to it.

So a rule was put in place that if you have a free agent that you own the rights to, they take up room in your cap to prevent you from using that cap space to sign other free agents. This is called a cap hold - as you are effectively "holding" cap space for that free agent.

To use an example, let's look at the current Nash/Bayless conundrum. The Raptors have a free agent they want to re-sign, Bayless. They also have about 10 million in cap space to sign Steve Nash. If they were to sign Nash with that 10 million, they could theoretically then sign Bayless as well - going over the cap - since they have his Bird Rights.

However, the cap hold rule stops this. Bayless is expected to sign a contract no larger than 2.5X his previous contract (this is a generic amount from the CBA). As such, a cap hold for that amount is sitting on the Raps' payroll. If they want the cap hold to go away, they either have to sign Bayless (at which point his salary counts against the books instead of the cap hold) or renounce their rights to him. If they renounce the rights, they can no longer go over the cap to sign Bayless - so the potential abuse of the Bird Rights clause is no longer a problem.

So, to summarize, cap holds are basically a way to ensure that teams do not abuse the Bird Rights to their free agents.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:45 PM   #63 (permalink)
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thanks again.

that explain a lot to me in one day,
more clue to how make a trade proposal the right way.

re thanks !!!

no more questions for now...
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:13 PM   #64 (permalink)
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thanks again.

that explain a lot to me in one day,
more clue to how make a trade proposal the right way.

re thanks !!!

no more questions for now...
haha, more trades from bankiz! (i wouldn't have it any other way!)
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:33 AM   #65 (permalink)
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haha, more trades from bankiz! (i wouldn't have it any other way!)
LOL !!!
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:57 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Default Assuming Fields

Just FYI since the Fields deal.

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Jerryd Bayless: $7,605,700 cap hold ($4,001,917 QO)
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200
James Johnson $2,812,006
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Terrence Ross $2,136,100
Gary Forbes $1,500,000
Sonny Weems $1,059,389 cap hold/QO

Total with Bayless: $61,022,000 - 3.0M cap defecit
Total without Bayless: $53,906,480 - 4.1M cap space

Salary Cap: $58 million
Tax Threshold: $70 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (with/without Bayless cap hold):
Jose: 14.7M / 7.5M
Amir: 10.1M / 3.0M
Kleiza: 8.7M / 1.6M

So it could be that Bayless is re-signed for a deal starting at 4.1 million, allowing this deal to go through and then relying on trades/amnesty to clear cap space for Nash.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:00 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Just FYI since the Fields deal.

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Jerryd Bayless: $7,605,700 cap hold ($4,001,917 QO)
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200
James Johnson $2,812,006
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Terrence Ross $2,136,100
Gary Forbes $1,500,000
Sonny Weems $1,059,389 cap hold/QO

Total with Bayless: $61,022,000 - 3.0M cap defecit
Total without Bayless: $53,906,480 - 4.1M cap space

Salary Cap: $58 million
Tax Threshold: $70 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (with/without Bayless cap hold):
Jose: 14.7M / 7.5M
Amir: 10.1M / 3.0M
Kleiza: 8.7M / 1.6M

So it could be that Bayless is re-signed for a deal starting at 4.1 million, allowing this deal to go through and then relying on trades/amnesty to clear cap space for Nash.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:42 PM   #68 (permalink)
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DanH but you explained yourself that as Bayless was tendered a QO his cap hit went from 7.6M to 4M. Thats the only way they could have signed Fields to an offer, by having enough free capspace
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:49 PM   #69 (permalink)
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DanH but you explained yourself that as Bayless was tendered a QO his cap hit went from 7.6M to 4M. Thats the only way they could have signed Fields to an offer, by having enough free capspace
Quote? Pretty sure I said the opposite. QO's NEVER reduce the cap hit.

They haven't signed him to anything yet - that's what July 11th is for. On that day, they could agree to a contract with Bayless starting at roughly his QO amount - thus freeing up the same amount of cap space. The one benefit of the moratorium period is that GM's have a few days to get their ducks in a row and make all those deals they agree to work financially.
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:08 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Default Lowry Trade

Outgoing: Forbes ($1.5M); future pick
Incoming: Lowry ($5.75M)

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Jerryd Bayless: $7,605,700 cap hold ($4,001,917 QO)
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Kyle Lowry $5,750,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200
James Johnson $2,812,006
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Terrence Ross $2,136,100
Sonny Weems $1,059,389 cap hold/QO

Total with Bayless: $65,272,000 - 7.3M cap defecit
Total without Bayless: $57,666,300 - 0.3M cap space

Salary Cap: $58 million
Tax Threshold: $70 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (with/without Bayless cap hold):
Jose: 10.9M / 3.3M
Amir: 6.4M / -1.2M
Kleiza: 4.9M / -2.7M
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:10 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Outgoing: Forbes ($1.5M); future pick
Incoming: Lowry ($5.75M)

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Jerryd Bayless: $7,605,700 cap hold ($4,001,917 QO)
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Kyle Lowry $5,750,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200
James Johnson $2,812,006
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Terrence Ross $2,136,100
Sonny Weems $1,059,389 cap hold/QO

Total with Bayless: $65,272,000 - 7.3M cap defecit
Total without Bayless: $57,666,300 - 0.3M cap space

Salary Cap: $58 million
Tax Threshold: $70 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (with/without Bayless cap hold):
Jose: 10.9M / 3.3M
Amir: 6.4M / -1.2M
Kleiza: 4.9M / -2.7M
thanks dan, IMO some wing has to go, and maybe a PF, like always lol.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:05 PM   #72 (permalink)
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IMO we should amnesty Amir and trade Calderon for a solid vet, maybe a center with an expiring contract. I would like Dalembart, but it seems like a strech for the Bucks to give him up.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:15 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Outgoing: Forbes ($1.5M); future pick
Incoming: Lowry ($5.75M)

Jose Calderon $10,561,982
Andrea Bargnani $10,000,000
Jerryd Bayless: $7,605,700 cap hold ($4,001,917 QO)
Landry Fields: $6,333,333 (assumed 19M total)
Amir Johnson $6,050,000
Kyle Lowry $5,750,000
Linas Kleiza $4,600,000
DeMar DeRozan $3,344,250
Jonas Valanciunas: $2,812,200
James Johnson $2,812,006
Ed Davis $2,207,040
Terrence Ross $2,136,100
Sonny Weems $1,059,389 cap hold/QO

Total with Bayless: $65,272,000 - 7.3M cap defecit
Total without Bayless: $57,666,300 - 0.3M cap space

Salary Cap: $58 million
Tax Threshold: $70 million

Amnesty candidates and resultant cap space (with/without Bayless cap hold):
Jose: 10.9M / 3.3M
Amir: 6.4M / -1.2M
Kleiza: 4.9M / -2.7M
Cool, trade Calderon + a big + a wing for a SF, re-sign Bayless and round out the roster with the mini MLE, vet minimum's and giddy up!!!
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:26 PM   #74 (permalink)
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IMO...the fields signing is really fucking us over right now.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:03 PM   #75 (permalink)
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IMO...the fields signing is really fucking us over right now.
yup. its very likely he ends up being the second highest played player in the team
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:04 PM   #76 (permalink)
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he makes 5 million, and is a good player. Whats the issue?
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:59 AM   #77 (permalink)
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he makes 5 million, and is a good player. Whats the issue?
6.3 million. But I agree.
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:35 AM   #78 (permalink)
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6.3 million. But I agree.
Yeah, and by the time he makes 9mill he could very well be worth that much!?
And it's only for 1 year.
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:59 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Yeah, and by the time he makes 9mill he could very well be worth that much!?
And it's only for 1 year.
He won't make 9 million if the Knicks don't match. A Gilbert Arenas Provision contract works like this:

If the Knicks match, they have to be able to do so with their limited exception. As such, his starting salary can only be 5 million. So, if they match, his contract will be 5M, 5.225M, 8.775M (assuming the reported 19M is correct).

If they don't match, the contract can be much more traditional, and will be seen so by the Raptors. It will take the form 6.33M, 6.33M, 6.33M.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:16 AM   #80 (permalink)
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He won't make 9 million if the Knicks don't match. A Gilbert Arenas Provision contract works like this:

If the Knicks match, they have to be able to do so with their limited exception. As such, his starting salary can only be 5 million. So, if they match, his contract will be 5M, 5.225M, 8.775M (assuming the reported 19M is correct).

If they don't match, the contract can be much more traditional, and will be seen so by the Raptors. It will take the form 6.33M, 6.33M, 6.33M.
Oh yes, thanks. sticking to my point, to the knicks he could well be worth 9mill by that 3rd year and to us 6.3 could be a bargain!
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