Raptors are boring
Old 11-18-2008, 03:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
what he is.

Senior Member
 
henrymakepeace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,175
Representing:
Default Raptors are boring

They don't make me excited. I thought it over bit and I think I can blame Mitchell for that. Raps usually play a half-court game. They don't push up the tempo. Apperantly Solomon didn't know much about it or forgot about it and he started playing his way against Miami and Mitchell asked him to slow down and settle for half-court game. Even when they start a break they choose to shoot treys as if they found an open shot in a settled offence. Somebody in another thread was rightfully saying Jose was not speeding up when he has the chance. I think he is doing it because he is told to do so. There is something wrong with this style. A team without scoring bursts will not dominate other teams. They will always try to stay in the game but it can be a win or loose. It is almost like gambling. No wonder they hang around 0.500.
henrymakepeace is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 04:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
playoffs please dont end

FTMFW
 
Shifty.py's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,711
Representing:
Default

not only its a half-court without ANY fast breaks
but every gameset involves feeding the ball to our bigs. It does get boring

Jose was always like that if I recall. He suited this game style better so they let TJ go.

You're mentioning scoring bursts, but what we saw in couple of games is bursts of great defense. These will win games for you, because steady production on offense is not a problem for Raps apparently.
JO Bargnani Moon Parker Solomon makes for a legit defensive team.
Shifty.py is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 08:04 AM   #3 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,343
Representing:
Default

Sam has always looked for his team to push the pace. Solomon is following Sam's gameplan, and has been all season long. But hey - let's keep putting the blame for everything on the easiest target.

The idea is to get the team to execute well like the Pistons and Spurs, and if you find them boring then too bad I guess, but it doesn't preclude using the break or pushing the pace. Jose clearly needs to mix things up and take advantage of the good defense, and convert the D into good scoring opportunities. He has been too prone to pausing, slowing down, and thinking too much every possession. I liked his game best when he did some of the things TJ did. And I'd say they let TJ go, because they saw that Jose could do those things as well, not because they didn't need that style of game.

You're right about the emphasis on defense Shifty, but that next step will be seeing some offense come out of that defense.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 09:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,486
Representing:
Default

This is the most exciting team since Vince's early years, and some might argue this is the most exciting Raptors team ever. So if you're bored, stop watching basketball and go post on a Leafs forum.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 09:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 21,729
Representing:
Default

Funny, I seem to recall Sam complaining about his guards pulling up on odd man breaks instead of attacking...

Anyway I'll take Pistons/Spurs style ball over run and gun any day.
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 09:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
what he is.

Senior Member
 
henrymakepeace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,175
Representing:
Default

Pistons and Spurs are boring as a door knob. How can a team with Parker & Ginobili be boring? Go figure. and they think Popovic is great.
henrymakepeace is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 09:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,030
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymakepeace View Post
Pistons and Spurs are boring as a door knob. How can a team with Parker & Ginobili be boring? Go figure. and they think Popovic is great.
Yeah, and how many Finals series have they played in since 2000? The fact that they actually play a brand of "true" basketball is exciting for because it's not some watered down, run'n'gun play no defense crap.

Please tell though, who do you find exciting?
Claudius is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 09:58 AM   #8 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 21,729
Representing:
Default

I find decise and tactical basketball fun to watch.

I also don't find winning all of the time boring.
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 10:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
a paranoid android

My name is Iņigo Montoya

 
Belsius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 10,547
Representing:
Default

I will never understand the "Spurs are boring" thing. A team that never surrenders, they can be 20 down and still fight for a win against any team, Ginobili making crazy shots all the time, a great coach, good defense, Tim Duncan, Parker taking it to the basket.

Look at them now, they were 1 and 5, without Manu, and Parker going down, and still manage to win 5 straight.

Win, Win, Win.

They are the example of what basketball should be.
Belsius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 10:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
the next dictator of MLSE

fresh and clean
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: uʍop ɹǝpun
Posts: 22,524
Representing:
Default

Did you watch the Pistons vs. Spurs in 05?
Windex is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 10:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
BOOBS

never too old.


 
INSIDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: richmond hill
Posts: 11,512
Representing:
Default

boring?
are you kidding.
the raps are damn fun to watch... maybe you like that GState style of running around like chickens with their heads cut-off and chucking every chance they get. but i'll take the raps style over that anyday.
and dont mention the fast breaks. Raptors had about 14+ fast break points vs miami last game, whereas miami only had like 2.
INSIDER is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 10:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,030
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

Yeah, the Pistons Spurs series was fun to watch as two, hard nosed, tough teams played against eachother.
Claudius is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 11:01 AM   #13 (permalink)
saying too many dudes are Tyson Chandler, trying to lead their teams and went nowhere

Scarborough, We Go Hard..
 
MangoKidHoops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,915
Representing:
Default

If the Raptors are boring, then you are excused from the bandwagon and your pass will be revoked.
MangoKidHoops is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 11:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
enjoying having the keys to destiny

perusing ancient database
 
ClingRap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The far side of the Universe.
Posts: 1,909
Representing:
Default

Actually, watching the first Suns-Spurs series, the one that spurred (pun intended) the rivalry, everyone talked a lot about phoenix's high octane shit, but the spurs completely owned them on the offensive end. The Spurs can score with the best of 'em.

I started a thread saying this during the pre-season and I find the style of play to be picking up, but 28 fast break points for the year going into last game is pathetic. I think the bigs are partially to blame as their outlet passes have been slow and shitty, Bargs especially. That split second gives the opposition time to set up. If you watch Phoenix of years past or even New York now, a lot of their buckets aren't necessarily fast break, but rather come when the team is in that mode of setting up their D. I think that's missing right now, as more often than not, instead of pushing all the way, jose or whomever pushes to like half court and then slows it down.

The coaches and the players are to blame for the lack of easy buckets, and say what you want about half court sets, we're going to have a hard time winning if we can't get out and run for about 10 points a game consistently. There has to be a hybrid of the two styles.
ClingRap is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 11:17 AM   #15 (permalink)
Sick, Wicked, and Nasty!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,223
Representing:
Default

basketball is never boring as long as you are watching your team play competitively
the fun and excitement of cheering for your team should be the main point of the excitement in any sport
it really shouldn't be based on wanting to watch like steve nash phoenix suns run and gun ball, there may be some different excitement on certain plays but if thats really what gets you interested when watching a game then you might as well just go find some video online about dunking and watch that
i find it way more interesting to watch teams execute their offense and play their defense well like the spurs
there's nothing wrong with mitchell calling jose to run the raptor pick and roll with Bosh or having them run the kick out and swing the ball for a corner 3, what's wrong with those plays if thats what maximizes the style of your players and scores you the points
Admiral is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 11:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
DVS
in la la land

I'm stuck being a Rap Fan
 
DVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Its jeffb's world we just post in it
Posts: 6,022
Representing:
Default

Meh me I like basketball so I'll watch anything. To be quite honest I have a beef with the NBA style anyways. I could go on a rant to high heavens on why the NCAA brand is miles better than the NBA brand of basketball. I'm not talking about flat out talent just the style.

As for the Raptors this is who they are. Jose isn't a fast break type PG so you'll get a half court set more times than not with them. I personally don't mind the style since it is a team oriented system. I only wish the Raps had a couple more offensive plays. This team isn't that bad its a player and a coach away from making some noise. Hopefully this gets addressed in the next couple of years.
DVS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 11:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

you still dont know me
 
you dont know me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 373
Representing:
Default

whoever says they're boring is crazy. the raps are fucking fun. it ain't all about fast breaks! when everything is running smooth, we're fucking insane.

bargs is fucking electricity out there. i see myself yelling and jumping when i see Bargs schooling someone defensively and offensively, when jo is doing his thing and Bosh being his usual susperstar self. the 3 pointers. wicked assists. crazy dunks. etc...

WE'RE NOT BORING!
you dont know me is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 11:32 AM   #18 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,486
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClingRap View Post
If you watch Phoenix of years past or even New York now, a lot of their buckets aren't necessarily fast break, but rather come when the team is in that mode of setting up their D. I think that's missing right now, as more often than not, instead of pushing all the way, jose or whomever pushes to like half court and then slows it down.
.
That's the one area of offensive decision making where I think Jose continually errs. Not the obvious fast breaks, but the inbetween ones, 4on3s, 5on4s, 4on4s, etc, you don't necessarily need to get a layup on one pass in those situations, but if you stay aggresive you can usually end up with a mismatch and an easy basket. Too often Jose gives up on those situations and pounds the ball at half court waiting for his team or glides up to the three point line, when he should be challenging the defense around the free throw line or at the baseline a la Nash..

Nash and Paul are the two best at this. Nash will dribble right through the key and end up with a 7 footer who stays with him, which results in a small guarding a big and two mismatches to choose from.

Paul had a nice play against Miami where he dribbled in front of Beasly who was making a rookie mistake of running beside his man Chandler in transition, resulting in a oop for Chandler during a rare 5on5 transition bucket.

Last edited by bjjs; 11-18-2008 at 11:35 AM.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 11:34 AM   #19 (permalink)
Gam zeh ya'avor

The Gatekeeper
 
MikeToronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,971
Representing:
Default

I also love flashy style with fast-breaks and dunks and such - but have to grudgingly admit that style doesn't seem to win much trophies.

That said, both Pistons and Spurs should have tried to make the game a bit faster, as should the Raptors, especially considering how mobile Bosh and even Bargs are. What we need is someone like Vince before he turned into a pussy to play SF or SG, and we'll see plenty of break-aways and dunks.
MikeToronto is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 11:39 AM   #20 (permalink)
is tired of all the Jose hating on this forum! sigh...

Senior Member
 
takman_777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NorthWestern Ontario
Posts: 1,804
Representing:
Talking what is basketball all about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
basketball is never boring as long as you are watching your team play competitively
the fun and excitement of cheering for your team should be the main point of the excitement in any sport

it really shouldn't be based on wanting to watch like steve nash phoenix suns run and gun ball, there may be some different excitement on certain plays but if thats really what gets you interested when watching a game then you might as well just go find some video online about dunking and watch that
i find it way more interesting to watch teams execute their offense and play their defense well like the spurs
there's nothing wrong with mitchell calling jose to run the raptor pick and roll with Bosh or having them run the kick out and swing the ball for a corner 3, what's wrong with those plays if thats what maximizes the style of your players and scores you the points
I think that people in general want to see these guys run up and down the floor making layups all night long. As far as i can tell, that has yet to win a title for the Suns who got away from the 8 seconds or less offense and the Knicks under D'Antoni play a blended offense of solid half court game with lots of transition options.

the problem the Raptors have this year is that we have not been able to pressure the guards into turnovers which then lead to transition hoops while our guards have given up the ball too much allowing for the easy transition hoops against us. I think that up-tempo is great as a part of the whole, but not as the main ingredient to your offense. Ask the Warriors how successful that has been this season as teams are pressuring the guards more and perimeter defense is winning games.

Jose Might play tonight !

here is the Sun article
takman_777 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24