Raptors aren’t tanking, they’re on a ‘strategic retreat’ - Page 3

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Old 12-11-2013, 06:54 PM   #41 (permalink)
whatever

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You are playing to win a championship at some point. According to championship or bust you just keep tearing it down if you are going to fall short.
actually ... yes, that's the idea. You build a team and if it doesn't pan out, you start over. If you want to win a title, which is not the goal for all teams, some are just content to make the playoffs (like the Bucks).If the team is close enough, you can try some creative tweaking rather than a full rebuild, but let's be realistic here, we're not close enough.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:03 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Kirby was talking about winning being a problem unless a championship resulted. And he used the word bust as the only acceptable alternative. There was no mention of creative tweaking or looking to see if the core could possibly contend.

My problem is in seeing any kind of winning as a huge problem. Valanciunas could improve enough to bring more wins. Not enough to contend or maybe even make the playoffs in most other years, but it would not ensure a bust. So do you deny Valanciunas that development? Trade him for picks? Or does this idea of bust above all else really just ring simplistically hollow?
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:28 PM   #43 (permalink)
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LX, Val is a big. If Masai wants to tank, really wants to tank, all he'd need to do is make Stone et al run the offence and the team will lose all its games no matter how well Jonas is developing.

I have a feeling we will see the definitive answers to the "where is this going?" question sooner rather than later. It's obvious that the new GM has been empowered to make serious decisions and is not afraid to use his powers.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:25 PM   #44 (permalink)
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That would really mean denying him further development then. I hear nothing but bitching about how he isn't a big enough part of the offense, and now i'm offered that as an ultimate solution for the future. In any case, there's no reason that a Valanciunas finding his groove still couldn't win against other tanking teams with a Vasquez and Stone. Last time I checked Tim Duncan is a big, and he won a championship with Avery Johnson as a pg. And it's Timmy that is credited in this piece, with everything that the Spurs have been able to do.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:59 PM   #45 (permalink)
doesn't care where LeBron plays. Or Melo.

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I think a fair summary is that we sucked with bargnani, we sucked just as bad without him and we'll suck equally bad without gay. Chemistry was bad to be sure this season, but that wasn't our biggest problem, not by a long margin.

Ultimately, we lack talent and by trading gay for a bunch of fairly bad players from a team that was worse than us, we're not going to improve the talent level... There's not a whiff of all star on this team and you need 2-3 to compete with the top 10. What's worse, there's not even a glimpse of a potential all star in the near future, maybe JV in 2-3 seasons.
Where I don't agree is in saying it's a "fair" summary and in saying the incoming guys are fairly bad players from a worse team. They played on a bad team that was more dysfunctional than us, and I believe that made them play at a lower level. In coming here, they're actually coming to a better environment for a fresh start and I suspect their on-court performance to be better here. And they improve our second unit at PG and give Casey more flexibility with his second unit rotations. Now Buycks and Stone and Daye can get used to picking splinters from their butts and we can stop having our first unit play so many minutes. And last year after Bargnani went out for the last part of the season, the team played better, and now that Gay is gone, there will be another improvement again. For sure were not a top level team, but we are a better team. The sum will be better than the parts, and we just went through a stretch where the parts were better than the sum. And we'll be more enjoyable to watch.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:18 PM   #46 (permalink)
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That would really mean denying him further development then. I hear nothing but bitching about how he isn't a big enough part of the offense, and now i'm offered that as an ultimate solution for the future. In any case, there's no reason that a Valanciunas finding his groove still couldn't win against other tanking teams with a Vasquez and Stone. Last time I checked Tim Duncan is a big, and he won a championship with Avery Johnson as a pg. And it's Timmy that is credited in this piece, with everything that the Spurs have been able to do.
I can think of at least two reasons why we won't start winning games on the back of Jonas' development.

One is that even in the best case scenario, JV is not Duncan. Duncan is a generational talent. JV hopefully could be an All Star.

The second rhymes with Blaine Macey.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:25 PM   #47 (permalink)
looking forward to Bargnani getting traded

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I can think of at least two reasons why we won't start winning games on the back of Jonas' development.

One is that even in the best case scenario, JV is not Duncan. Duncan is a generational talent. JV hopefully could be an All Star.

The second rhymes with Blaine Macey.
Do you think I'm stupid? I know you mean Wayne Gacy.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:32 AM   #48 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

This is how U(jiri) do it
 
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Brad (Toronto)

Would you say that the Raptors have made it clear that they intend to get a high draft pick this summer?
Chad Ford (1:07 PM)

I think we saw this one coming. Masai Ujiri is not a big fan of the team Bryan Colangelo put together. But he's a big fan of the draft and I think he saw an opportunity. Sounds like Kyle Lowry might be the next one out the door. DeMar DeRozan could also be gone. Cap space and draft picks is the strategy. Welcome to the tanking ring, Raptors! Andrew Wiggins would look great in a Raptors uni
An exert from Chad Ford's weekly draft. Guy knows what's up usually.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:33 AM   #49 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

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or you know, we could have dealt rudy thinking him gone would make the team's chemistry better (small sample but definitely evident) and that we could use the added cap room to add to a very potentially lethal core in demar and val with fighters like lowry and solid players in there too like Amir and TH, with ross possibly getting recognition there in terms of a big role in the near future.


journos getting very lazy
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:12 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Do you think I'm stupid? I know you mean Wayne Gacy.
I thought it was Shane Spacey
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:27 PM   #51 (permalink)
holding it in.

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or you know, we could have dealt rudy thinking him gone would make the team's chemistry better (small sample but definitely evident) and that we could use the added cap room to add to a very potentially lethal core in demar and val with fighters like lowry and solid players in there too like Amir and TH, with ross possibly getting recognition there in terms of a big role in the near future.


journos getting very lazy
Demar (above average volume scorer) and Val (mediocre center) a potentionally lethal core. "Fighters" in Lowry, and Amir and Psycho T bringing up the rear with their intensity. Oh yes, a dynasty in the making. This kind of viewpoint would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad. The Raptors need a tear down, and only the delusional won't accept that.
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:58 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I can think of at least two reasons why we won't start winning games on the back of Jonas' development.

One is that even in the best case scenario, JV is not Duncan. Duncan is a generational talent. JV hopefully could be an All Star.

The second rhymes with Blaine Macey.
I think you read me a little wrong. I said winning some games, against other tanking teams. I hardly think that would take a generational talent.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:46 PM   #53 (permalink)
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I think you read me a little wrong. I said winning some games, against other tanking teams. I hardly think that would take a generational talent.
Only winning some games against other tanking teams is fine for a tanking team. Don't need to place last, just be in the running.
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