Raptors to amnesty Amir in the summer? - Page 3
Old 04-02-2012, 04:32 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Thanks, Acie.

To everyone else - yes, I've heard that I am a naive dreamer. Let's agree that we've already established that.

Now, to the problem at hand. I am asking for legitimate arguments against Deron Williams agreeing to sign here as a FA. My arguments for it are as follows:

1. With JV, Bargnani, Ed and Amir, we'd have one of the better young front-courts in the league.

2. With the high enough draft pick (I am not even mentioning it potentially being Davis), we are going to have another front court player to either improve on the group above or at SF/SG position.

3. Our wings (JJ, DeRozan, Kleiza, even Forbes to an extent) are better than average group with some potential for further development.

4. Either Calderon or Bayless would provide a reliable backup option at PG.

5. Casey is a coach with great reputation who has already shown what he can do even with limited talent. BC is a more than capable GM. Telecom companies make for great owners in more than one sense.

6. Yes, Toronto is in Canada, but still presents plenty of opportunities for commercial endorsements (see Carter, Bosh). Carter has also managed serious deals in US while playing here.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:06 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Yeah, DD isn't anything for a primetime FA to get hyped up about. AB needs to play like he did pre-injury this season (also, he still hasn't proved he can get 7 boards/game in the nba).

The raps need a Beal or MKG to come to Toronto. I'd prefer Beal so it will be much easier dealing DD.

DWill is not coming here. Yes, BC could state everything you've said but DWill could just go home to dallas. He'll transition the Mavs from the Nowitzki era to to his own era.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:10 PM   #43 (permalink)
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DWill is not coming here. Yes, BC could state everything you've said but DWill could just go home to dallas. He'll transition the Mavs from the Nowitzki era to to his own era.
In other words, he'd be coming home to an aging Dirk and what else, exactly?
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:40 PM   #44 (permalink)
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touche. But Cuban doesn't care about losing money via going over the luxury tax.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:18 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Care to get into an argument?
We're the 4th worst team in the league ... why would he come here.Why not choose indiana for example, they have cap space and they're already on pace for 50 wins.
Or sacramento, or portland. Lots of teams have cap space next summer.
Plus, he could go virtually anywhere since he could work with the nets on a s&t.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:08 AM   #46 (permalink)
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We're the 4th worst team in the league ... why would he come here.Why not choose indiana for example, they have cap space and they're already on pace for 50 wins.
Or sacramento, or portland. Lots of teams have cap space next summer.
Plus, he could go virtually anywhere since he could work with the nets on a s&t.
As far as S&T - aren't they prohibited under the new CBA? Dan?

We are not really the fourth worst team in the league. I doubt Portland will have enough room to offer him the max. Sacramento is a much smaller market than Toronto and the team hold less promise, IMHO. Indiana is small too, but yeah, they are really tempting in terms of winning immediately.

Given the choice, I'd choose Toronto.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:19 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Plus, here the pitch would sound like "come over and be the franchise". While having a lot of age-appropriate help around him, he'd indisputably be "The Man" in TO.

I am not saying he'd necessarily come. I'm saying that BC should give him a very serious shot.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:51 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Thanks, Acie.

To everyone else - yes, I've heard that I am a naive dreamer. Let's agree that we've already established that.

Now, to the problem at hand. I am asking for legitimate arguments against Deron Williams agreeing to sign here as a FA. My arguments for it are as follows:

1. With JV, Bargnani, Ed and Amir, we'd have one of the better young front-courts in the league.

2. With the high enough draft pick (I am not even mentioning it potentially being Davis), we are going to have another front court player to either improve on the group above or at SF/SG position.

3. Our wings (JJ, DeRozan, Kleiza, even Forbes to an extent) are better than average group with some potential for further development.

4. Either Calderon or Bayless would provide a reliable backup option at PG.

5. Casey is a coach with great reputation who has already shown what he can do even with limited talent. BC is a more than capable GM. Telecom companies make for great owners in more than one sense.

6. Yes, Toronto is in Canada, but still presents plenty of opportunities for commercial endorsements (see Carter, Bosh). Carter has also managed serious deals in US while playing here.
What I gather from this...our team is awesome, great young front court, above average wings, so our PG spot must obviously be holding us back?
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:56 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Nice try.

They didn't have the bread available to sign him.
Wasn't that because he was asking for some ridiculous amount ($12M/yr or something)?

Part of being a great GM in convincing players to sign WITHOUT having to overpay for them.

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As far as S&T - aren't they prohibited under the new CBA? Dan?

We are not really the fourth worst team in the league. I doubt Portland will have enough room to offer him the max. Sacramento is a much smaller market than Toronto and the team hold less promise, IMHO. Indiana is small too, but yeah, they are really tempting in terms of winning immediately.

Given the choice, I'd choose Toronto.
Really?

Thornton... Cousins... Evans... Thomas... 4 solid pieces there.

I dunno Mike... I think you're drinking a little too much Kool-Aid. I can pretty much guarantee you that prospective FAs aren't drooling at the prospect of playing with Ed Davis, Linas Kleiza and Gary Forbes. They're probably barely considering DD and Bargs as it is.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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What it comes down to is Bargnani.

As good as Bargnani might be, he hasn't given enough players in the league his best to earn the type of respect that is going to draw a guy like Deron Williams to play with him.

Look at the trouble Rose had drawing a start to Chicago just because he wouldn't sell off the court.

Bargnani doesn't sell and mingle either, but in addition, he hasn't done enough selling on the court. He's starting to, but not nearly enough to draw any big names.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:05 PM   #51 (permalink)
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What I gather from this...our team is awesome, great young front court, above average wings, so our PG spot must obviously be holding us back?
Not really holding us back per se... More like not having a long-term starter at, while also being the position of the paramount importance in today's league.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:09 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Wasn't that because he was asking for some ridiculous amount ($12M/yr or something)?

Part of being a great GM in convincing players to sign WITHOUT having to overpay for them.



Really?

Thornton... Cousins... Evans... Thomas... 4 solid pieces there.

I dunno Mike... I think you're drinking a little too much Kool-Aid. I can pretty much guarantee you that prospective FAs aren't drooling at the prospect of playing with Ed Davis, Linas Kleiza and Gary Forbes. They're probably barely considering DD and Bargs as it is.
Maybe. I need hope. The thing is - next year, this team is going to be MUCH improved. With Deron or without him, we will either make the playoffs at the bottom or nearly miss them, so the chances of drafting PG of the future will diminish. He represents our biggest opportunity in the foreseeable future to get a franchise guy (assuming we don't win 2012 lottery) at the most important position on the floor. Maybe I am trying "mind over matter" approach.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:12 PM   #53 (permalink)
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As far as S&T - aren't they prohibited under the new CBA? Dan?

We are not really the fourth worst team in the league. I doubt Portland will have enough room to offer him the max. Sacramento is a much smaller market than Toronto and the team hold less promise, IMHO. Indiana is small too, but yeah, they are really tempting in terms of winning immediately.

Given the choice, I'd choose Toronto.
S+T's are still fair game. You just can't offer as much as before - now doing a sign and trade nets the player the same contract as if he signed with a new team outright.

But there's no way the Nets give him up through a S+T unless they are getting a LOT back - because they might feel that of the teams with cap space to offer, they have the best supporting cast. Now, that's not true, but they might feel that way. And if they think they have a chance of convincing him to come back, they aren't going to increase the number of competitors by advocating a sign and trade.
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:14 PM   #54 (permalink)
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S+T's are still fair game. You just can't offer as much as before - now doing a sign and trade nets the player the same contract as if he signed with a new team outright.
I see - thanks. Well, then, Deron will definitely bask in the glory of being the biggest prize available this summer. Thanks, Dwight!
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:18 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Wasn't that because he was asking for some ridiculous amount ($12M/yr or something)?

Part of being a great GM in convincing players to sign WITHOUT having to overpay for them.
It could be likely that he asked for too much, but they didn't have any space to sign him without clearing some cap room first.

And please provide the names and instances where GM's have convinced players to come to a team in a similar situation as Toronto currently is in without overpaying?
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:22 PM   #56 (permalink)
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It could be likely that he asked for too much, but they didn't have any space to sign him without clearing some cap room first.

And please provide the names and instances where GM's have convinced players to come to a team in a similar situation as Toronto currently is in without overpaying?
I would say that the only opportunity (potentially) to get such a player without overpaying is to guarantee him starting role and playing time. Considering that he went to Denver to essentially be stuck behind Gallinari at SF, that wouldn't have worked.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:08 PM   #57 (permalink)
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An interesting article on "Deron to TO", obviously dated, but still relevant and raising some of the same points I've been bringing up:

Toronto Raptors: How Deron Williams Could Be the Team's Answer at Point Guard | Bleacher Report
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:35 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I would say that the only opportunity (potentially) to get such a player without overpaying is to guarantee him starting role and playing time. Considering that he went to Denver to essentially be stuck behind Gallinari at SF, that wouldn't have worked.
And that's what I mean.... the guy would have had a GUARANTEED starting job here and would have also had the chance to score the ball quite a bit. It says something when a player turns that down to go and be a back up with a team that isn't a title contender.

All I heard before BC got here was how this guy had a "golden tongue" and how he was going to bring respectability to the franchise. 6 years later I'm still waiting for that respect.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:12 PM   #59 (permalink)
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And that's what I mean.... the guy would have had a GUARANTEED starting job here and would have also had the chance to score the ball quite a bit. It says something when a player turns that down to go and be a back up with a team that isn't a title contender.

All I heard before BC got here was how this guy had a "golden tongue" and how he was going to bring respectability to the franchise. 6 years later I'm still waiting for that respect.
Respect only comes from post-season accomplishments. That or out-standing reg season.
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