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View Poll Results: Was Rafael Ara˙jo the worst draft pick in franchise history?
Yes 20 71.43%
No 8 28.57%
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MikeToronto View Post
Araujo - because of how high he was picked.
This


Picture Valanciunas turning out to be Hoffa how many years this would set this franchise back right now. When you're a lottery team and you're as bad as we were, and there were rumblings then that VC wanted out if i recall it was a stupid pick by a horrid GM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:41 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Here are the game logs for Haffa in his rookie season.

Rafael Araujo NBA Game Log 2004-2005 - Rafael Araujo NBA Fantasy Basketball Stats

Notice his production when he actually played 20+ minutes/gm.

Our management flat-out gave up on him before the season was even over... and it's a shame TBH.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:41 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Rumours at the time were that Jack McCloskey, the interm GM before Babcock was hired in June 04, was the one who really pushed hard for drafting Araujo. The ultimate decsion was Babcock's to make though.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:43 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Seeing how McCloskey drafted guys Rodman and Dumars in the lower rounds in his time, he must have had a lot of influence.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Picture Valanciunas turning out to be Hoffa how many years this would set this franchise back right now. When you're a lottery team and you're as bad as we were, and there were rumblings then that VC wanted out if i recall it was a stupid pick by a horrid GM.
LOL... Babcock was hired 2 weeks before the draft. He went with the pick that the scouts suggested since they had done all the legwork.

Horrid GM? Based on a single year at the helm when he walked into a capped out team with a star who wanted out? What do you think BC would have done in THAT situation? hahahahahhaahahahahahaa....
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:46 PM   #26 (permalink)
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LOL... Babcock was hired 2 weeks before the draft. He went with the pick that the scouts suggested since they had done all the legwork.

Horrid GM? Based on a single year at the helm when he walked into a capped out team with a star who wanted out? What do you think BC would have done in THAT situation? hahahahahhaahahahahahaa....
You're going to sit there and disagree that Babcock was a horrid GM?


As for what BC would have done, none of us have a clue and if you want to guess that he would have also picked him then go ahead.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Here are the game logs for Haffa in his rookie season.

Rafael Araujo NBA Game Log 2004-2005 - Rafael Araujo NBA Fantasy Basketball Stats

Notice his production when he actually played 20+ minutes/gm.

Our management flat-out gave up on him before the season was even over... and it's a shame TBH.
Hoffa was given a shot. I watched basically every game that season, and the one that followed. He was not the better option at any point, so they played other players.

He couldn't make it in Russia, or on the Jazz for NBA reference. Guys like Mehmet Ocur shined there, and he was awful.

This guy is our worst pick, based on where he was selected, the players still available on the board. As the rumour goes, Babcock wanted to hijack Utah's 12 and 14 picks by picking their local boy. Clearly, it didn't work out. Those guys that have been mentioned were quite bad, but not on Hoffa's level.

That being said, that dunk that crushed the backboard in Brazil almost redeemed it for me, as I still haven't laughed that hard, and I saw it back in June.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The Vince Carter trade was inexusable. I recall guys like Jalen Rose who was a player for us at the time, laughing. He said something to the effect of "I could probably make a better trade on my X-box" with a smirk.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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You're going to sit there and disagree that Babcock was a horrid GM?
Yep. Because it was absolutely ridiculous to expect ANY GM to turn that team around in 1 year. Just pure stupidity. And Peddie and the board made him the scapegoat AFTER pushing through the Vince trade so that they could save some money lol. No-win scenario for Babs.

What Isiah did in NYK? Now THAT was horrible GM'ing.

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Hoffa was given a shot. I watched basically every game that season, and the one that followed. He was not the better option at any point, so they played other players.
So did I. And I remember those games against the Kings, Warriors and Lakers when Haffa was actually pretty solid (did you look at the game logs?).

Haffa wasn't supposed to be Tim Duncan coming into the league. He was more a Zaza P. type. If anyone thought differently then that was their mistake.

Last edited by TORaptor4Ever; 12-10-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:57 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Yep. Because it was absolutely ridiculous to expect ANY GM to turn that team around in 1 year.
Did anyone expect him to turnaround this team in one year? Is that what was really expected? He was a horrid GM based on two things, VC trade and Hoffa...... Period the end.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:03 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Bosh was getting mutilated down low as a young kid trying to play C.

Everyone wants to say that Iggy was a "no brainer" but we had Vince, Jalen and Mo Pete at the wing spots.

We needed a big man.

Haffa went to a decent school and had some big games against OTHER big programs. He had an NBA-ready body and was capable of banging with the biggest guys in the league (which he did).

I remember him playing very well against guys like Zach and Brand... guys who just toyed with our bigs otherwise.

Araujo, like Babcock, will continue to be a scapegoat and take the blame when it really should be placed on Vince. Him demanding a trade is what REALLY set our franchise back years.

The Bargs pick was another one.
I don't remember Jalen ever playing with Vince. That might've been cool to watch.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:05 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Did anyone expect him to turnaround this team in one year? Is that what was really expected? He was a horrid GM based on two things, VC trade and Hoffa...... Period the end.
Apparently you DID expect him to turn it around in 1 year lol.... because you were OK with him being fired even though neither of the things you listed were his fault.

VC trade = Peddie

Hoffa drafting = McCloskey


If you want to fault Babcock for his drafting skills then you should probably judge him on the FOLLOWING year when he drafted CV (and found Jose and brought him over as a FA).
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:12 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Andre Igoudala. All that needs to be said
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:13 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Apparently you DID expect him to turn it around in 1 year lol.... because you were OK with him being fired even though neither of the things you listed were his fault.

VC trade = Peddie

Hoffa drafting = McCloskey


If you want to fault Babcock for his drafting skills then you should probably judge him on the FOLLOWING year when he drafted CV (and found Jose and brought him over as a FA).

Of course, his mistakes were someone elses fault while his ok moves were his doing alone.


Whatever, he was awful imo.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:36 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Your memory needs work Jeff.

Aleksandar Radojević: 15 career games in the NBA. Shot 31% and avgd. 1.7 pts and 2.3 rebs in about 11 min/gm. Dude was gone from the league after 2 seasons.

Michael Bradley: Career avgs of 3 & 3. Played for 5 teams in 5 seasons and was near useless.


EDIT: Forgot about Jeffries. He was pretty horrid too.
Your memory is worse. Hoffa was picked 8th.

Edit; And CV was a horrifying bad pick. Bargs with lipstick.

Last edited by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu; 12-10-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:44 PM   #37 (permalink)
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McCloskey reportedly pressured Babcock into drafting Hoffa, but at the end of the day the final decision rested with rob Babcock who was the general manager at the time. Just because he wasn't hired by toronto until June, doesn't mean he was entirely removed from evaluating draft prospects/players. He was working with the Twolves for 12 years before that. He was vp of player personnel for them before being hired and spent time as a scout in the past as well. There possibly were other scouts telling him differing views than mccloskey's. He later admitted he would be picking the best player available in the future rather than draft for position.

Last edited by Raptors1995; 12-10-2012 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:52 PM   #38 (permalink)
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This whole thread is just depressing.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:22 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Your memory is worse. Hoffa was picked 8th.

Edit; And CV was a horrifying bad pick. Bargs with lipstick.
My memory is fine. I know full-well where Haffa was drafted.

And CV was fine as a Raptor. That pick was initially criticized but ended up being lauded.

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Of course, his mistakes were someone elses fault while his ok moves were his doing alone.


Whatever, he was awful imo.
BC has been worse.

FAR worse.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:56 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Fuck this team made some mind-bogglingly dumb moves. How did BC not get hanged after wasting a 1st on JO and then another 1st to get rid of him?
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