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-   -   Prime Time Sports: Importance Re: Back-up PG (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/prime-time-sports-importance-re-back-up-pg-3770.html)

Dr. J. Naismith 10-24-2008 10:42 PM

Prime Time Sports: Importance Re: Back-up PG
 
Today Prime Time Sports hosted Dan Shulman and Stephen Brunt to discuss the Raptors. The general consensus seems to be that our back-up PG situation will make or break this season for us.

Agree or disagree? :confused2:

Courtesy of supersub15 from the RealGM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by supersub15
McCowan had Stephen Brunt and Dan Shulman on and discussed the Raptors.

In brief:

Shulman: Those 10 minutes played without Calderon on the floor are going to make or break this team. Not an O'Neal injury. Not the SF position. The team will be 8-10 points in the hole every time Calderon checks out of the game.

McCowan: Very disppointed that O'Neal came to camp out of shape, but will reserve judgement until he sees him in action in the regular season.

Brunt: Bargnani is an SF in center body. Would rather have a real C and a real SF. Heard the same thing from Sam about getting Bargnani to play down low last year, and nothing came of it. Bargnani likes to shoot from the perimeter, and the only way to succeed in that regard is if Bargnani is a special talent (like a Nowitzki) to make that transition.

All agreed that the team would need a lot of things to go its way to break the 50-win barrier.


EggsToTheBBQ 10-24-2008 10:48 PM

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration.

Solomon seems like he can at least defend. So, when Calderon's out just run the offense through AP, and take your time with it. Run as much time off the clock as you can until you bring Calderon back.

I think you can minimize the damage. Spotting the other team 8-10 points a game seems a bit drastic. That's the difference between a 40 win team and a 50 win team over a season.

EggsToTheBBQ 10-24-2008 10:57 PM

I just checked and Boston's point differential last year was +10.3. So, ten points a game is the difference between a 40 win team and a 66 win NBA champion.

jeffb 10-24-2008 10:57 PM

I agree! Especially if Calderon were to miss,say 20 games due to injury.That would spell big trouble.Our back up PG situation is extremly scary and tenuous for sure .Can you imagine Soloman and Ukic running the show for 20games? We'd lead the league in TO's!

EggsToTheBBQ 10-24-2008 11:26 PM

I thought about this a little more. Do you think the biggest difference between the Raptors and Celtics is:

a) Sam Cassel's 5 minutes?

b) Paul Pierce's 35 minutes?

It's who's playing FULL TIME at 2 and 3 that's going to make or break this team.

Snooch 10-25-2008 09:48 AM

Barg's is the key to the season, no backup point or the wings, although Bargs is gonna spend a fair bit of time at the 3, wait and see.

The only way for Bargs to be truely effective is to be used to exploit defenses. Having him just be in offensive sets is going to create problems. If some smaller guards his, he is developing post moves to take advantage, if someone larger is guarding him then he already has a variety of skills on the wing.

One thing that this team in the preseason that the team is trying very hard is trying to have bigs guard smalls on the perimeter, this is a way to adapt the team defense to allow for three bigs on the floor at once.

If team defense can at least make it difficult on oposition and just not this incredibly pourus preseason defense then running with the 3 bigs on offense cannot be defended, relying on course on having confidence and better efficiency on offense.

moremilk 10-25-2008 07:34 PM

I heard that discussion live, and just reenforced my opinion that mccown and his buddies are right to not talk about basketball at all on their show - they are clueless.

MikeToronto 10-25-2008 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EggsToTheBBQ (Post 63071)
I thought about this a little more. Do you think the biggest difference between the Raptors and Celtics is:

a) Sam Cassel's 5 minutes?

b) Paul Pierce's 35 minutes?

It's who's playing FULL TIME at 2 and 3 that's going to make or break this team.

Celtics got lucky, a lot, especially in the playoffs, to get those rings. On top of that, their big three STAYED HEALTHY - one of them missing a significant stretch of games, especially close to or during the playoffs would have meant an early exit. (Yes, even with shooting woes, Allen at least required a constant defensive coverage).

As far as specifics are concerned - they've had an excellent team-oriented defensive plan that they kept on executing throughout the entire season. Posey, KG, Pierce, Perkins, Rondo are all above-average defenders and their defensive coordinator (his name escapes me at the moment, but it was one of the assistants and not Rivers) did a hell of a job using their talents together. Offensively, having a premier perimeter player in Pierce and a premiere post player in Garnett didn't hurt either.

Snooch 10-25-2008 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 63283)
Celtics got lucky, a lot, especially in the playoffs, to get those rings. On top of that, their big three STAYED HEALTHY - one of them missing a significant stretch of games, especially close to or during the playoffs would have meant an early exit. (Yes, even with shooting woes, Allen at least required a constant defensive coverage).

As far as specifics are concerned - they've had an excellent team-oriented defensive plan that they kept on executing throughout the entire season. Posey, KG, Pierce, Perkins, Rondo are all above-average defenders and their defensive coordinator (his name escapes me at the moment, but it was one of the assistants and not Rivers) did a hell of a job using their talents together. Offensively, having a premier perimeter player in Pierce and a premiere post player in Garnett didn't hurt either.

Tom Thibideau

MikeToronto 10-25-2008 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoochieBoochie (Post 63289)
Tom Thibodeau

Yep, he's the one I was thinking about. Thanks.

moremilk 10-26-2008 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 63283)
Celtics got lucky, a lot, especially in the playoffs, to get those rings. On top of that, their big three STAYED HEALTHY - one of them missing a significant stretch of games, especially close to or during the playoffs would have meant an early exit. (Yes, even with shooting woes, Allen at least required a constant defensive coverage).

they didn't get all that lucky - they were consistently the best team from start to finish. As far as injuries, other than Houston, no other team had any major injuries in the playoff.

Ball Don't Lie 10-26-2008 06:39 PM

Celtics werent lucky at all as milk said, the only lucky thing about them was in the offseason being able to get KG and Ray. They were that damn good, there wasnt a lot of luck involved.

As for the OP, whats gonna make or break this team is 2 things that have already been mentioned, Bargs having a good season and along with that, us not being killed inside when hes i nthe game like what happened in preseason, and how our wing players play. We need Moon to be as good as last year, AP to continue to shoot it well(Jkaps as well), and for one more guy to play a solid 10mpg whether it be Adams or Graham.

Basically the SG/SFs and Bargs will make or break us IMO

MikeToronto 10-27-2008 12:11 AM

Let me clarify the "luck" statement: for all their regular-season dominance, this Celtics team was anything but dominating in the playoffs. In fact, their only dominating game there was the very last one vs. the Lakers. There were teams before that dominated the post-season (Bulls during the dynasty and Lakers come to mind) - Celtics were taken to Game 7 by the Hawks, for goodness' sake!

rapsfan087 10-27-2008 10:38 AM

They were lucky agaisnt the Hawks, Amare and other Sun's guy were suspended 2 days because they cross one line while KG went without punishment for this:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/585...6994947pk4.jpg

Haven't watched anybody doing this and ending the game on the court/field in any sport.

Ex2k 10-27-2008 12:57 PM

^^
wtf when was that? i dont remember...

moremilk 10-27-2008 01:11 PM

they crushed Atlanta in every game in Boston - even without Garnett they would have won that series. Boston - Garnett > Atlanta.
And they've dominated when it mattered the most, in the finals ... :) Nobody is saying that the Celtics are the best team in history, but they were definitely the best in the league last season. Not by a lot, but still - the best.

Ball Don't Lie 10-27-2008 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapsfan087 (Post 63471)
They were lucky agaisnt the Hawks, Amare and other Sun's guy were suspended 2 days because they cross one line while KG went without punishment for this:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/585...6994947pk4.jpg

Haven't watched anybody doing this and ending the game on the court/field in any sport.

In watching that highlight KG didnt actually push him, he touched him but big deal, players touch the refs all the time when arguing about calls. Rafer even kisses some of them, heh.

The Celtics were just as inexperienced coming into the playoffs as anyone and thus got off to a rocky start on the road. I think what KG said also has something to do with it, with the Hawks fans coming out in full force and the Celts totally not expecting it, the fans REALLY had an impact in all of those Hawks wins especially in the 4th. They were like us when we played NJ.

But the sure sign it wasnt luck was the Celtics got better as the postseason went on, and once they did get their first road win the Pistons and Lakers were toast from there because they finally learned what it took on the road to win which they didnt before the postseason started with that unit. It was almost like a transformation from a young inexperienced team into a veteran, championship team within the span of 2 rounds and a half, it was odd to see.

The best thing from them to watch last year though was their defence and how they used certain zones and traps, and especially their rotations. They are definately one of the best defences the NBA has ever seen. Hopefully this year the Raps can implement some of what the Celts showed last year into their own defensive schemes even though there hasnt been any sign of that yet unfortunately as all of our rotations are slow as hell.

BballWatcher 10-27-2008 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapsfan087 (Post 63471)
They were lucky agaisnt the Hawks, Amare and other Sun's guy were suspended 2 days because they cross one line while KG went without punishment for this:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/585...6994947pk4.jpg

Haven't watched anybody doing this and ending the game on the court/field in any sport.

It's bogus to say that a team winning because a player didn't get suspended luck. As has been said before, the Celtics were getting their sea legs in round 1, and still destroyed the Hawks at home every single time.

Sure a team needs to have some bounces go their way to make it to the finals (just ask both Cleveland and the teams that eventually knock them off), but the Celtics were a legit championship team last year, that won because they played as a team.


Also, to discredit the earlier statement that only Houston had major injuries - the Lakers were missing Bynum for half the season. And they still made the finals!

Superjudge 10-27-2008 06:43 PM

he should have been suspended.

rapsfan087 10-27-2008 06:57 PM

It happened at the 6th game I think Ex2k, think it was between Sasha Pachulia and KG. The excuse that KG said was that he was in the middle of a brawl and he didn't know who was who was trying to catch him. :D

KG shoved the ref. If that isn't a fault, then I don't know.

Celtics were the deserved champions, but they were lucky there, plain and simple.

Don't wanna argue about it, I was just pointing I agreed with Mike and posted why I think that, besides the stars being free-injuries.


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