POSTGAME THREAD: Atlanta Hawks vs. Toronto Raptors - Page 4
Old 01-12-2011, 10:52 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Can't believe some of you guys are blaming the refs. Bargnani and Barbosa collectively got away with about five or six walks tonight, while the refs whistled the Hawks for travels that aren't normally travels - in the NBA that is. We also got the benefit of a few phantom calls, accounting for all the And 1's.

I'm fairly pleased with a competitive game versus a quality club. As a proponent of the tank however, it was too close for comfort.

Also, Bibby is a gangster. His body language after hitting the game winner was that of a mental patient listening to the Pet Shop Boys.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:55 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Barbosa wasn't the only to go one on five. That seemed to be the case with everyone in the second half. The first half was nice in that it showed them as a pretty cohesive unit. Then halfway through the third the offense rested on driving into traffic.

Demar's defense was terrible in stretches. And Bargnani's head was not into defending much at all. They tried to win this game on offense alone. Kudos to Jose for playing a pretty nice two-way game. Too bad he was shut down so badly at the end.
Yeah, I liked it when the Raps offense was more team oriented and that everyone got touches. In the second half, everyone was riding on Barbosa which works in some cases, but as J-roc pointed out it doesn't always win games. Bargs and DD needed their touches in the 2nd half, DD more than AB.

In my opinion, Bargs' and DD's man to man defense isn't that bad at times, but what gets me mad is Bargs not help defending or rebounding and Demar's defense with close outs and getting off the screen. Demar losses his man too many times when he gets off a set screen.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:57 PM   #63 (permalink)
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YOu guys want to know what pretty much won the game for Atlanta? THat insanely long 3 at the shot clock buzzer. It was either crawford or Johnson (n'est pas?).

DAMN that was absolutely shocking.
Crawford - yep the air went out of the balloon on that one.

but if they had done any of the little things it never would have come down to that shot and Bibby's shot or the the fouls on long-range shots. They honestly should have been able to absorb all of that if they played with the right mindset. They come into these games looking for a shootout, and they get shot in the foot. They just don't have the necessary ingredients to win that kind of game. Or maybe they do, in the form of players that sit on the bench for the most part.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:58 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I still don't believe in improved defence in the second half, It's fuckin' ZONE you are playing!! No other defencive system than Zone!! Hawks missed some wide open threes and made some contested ones!
Playing zone is actually a good defensive system when done right. Raps have play good defense when running zone, the same with the Mavs. The key is communicating and knowing what each other has to do in certain situations.
Seeing the Raps play good defense when running zone shows to me what good chemistry they have together.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:58 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I thought Demar was a big part of our loss and he showed that he has a really low basketball IQ on offense and defense, the one good thing he did was not run his mouth off like other guys such as Steven Jackson would have done. Hate on Jose all you want but he did the right thing there. It's a shame he plays for the Raptors or isn't called Lebron James or Kobe Bryant.. His fans would be celebrating victory right now.

The NBA referees are really awful and biased. No one here can possibly tell me that, there wasn't enough contact to call a foul on Jose, especially when you have Crawford diving on the court like some Italian football player. NBA referees are so inconsistent with their calls it's not even funny. Had that drive been in the first, second, third or first 10 minutes of the fourth, it would sure as hell been a foul. Had that drive occurred in the Staples center and Jose was wearing a yellow jersey, a foul would be called. What's worse the same official who said that there wasn't a contact on Jose, gave an offensive foul on Amir...

Either way, I'm looking forward to the lockout season. I hope it kills this league, similar to what the 05 lockout did to the NHL.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:59 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
YOu guys want to know what pretty much won the game for Atlanta? THat insanely long 3 at the shot clock buzzer. It was either crawford or Johnson (n'est pas?).

DAMN that was absolutely shocking.
lol I know, that shot was almost from half, and it was contested, and it was all net not even bank.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:00 PM   #67 (permalink)
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zone is for weak defensive teams. It pretty much says hey we can't guard you one on one. You give up a lot of open looks from the perimeter.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:04 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I thought Demar was a big part of our loss and he showed that he has a really low basketball IQ on offense and defense, the one good thing he did was not run his mouth off like other guys such as Steven Jackson would have done.

The NBA referees are really awful and biased. No one here can possibly tell me that, there wasn't enough contact to call a foul on Jose, especially when you have Crawford diving on the court like some Italian football player. NBA referees are so inconsistent with their calls it's not even funny. Had that drive been in the first, second, third or first 10 minutes of the fourth, it would sure as hell been a foul. Had that drive occurred in the Staples center and Jose was wearing a yellow jersey, a foul would be called. What's worse the same official who said that there wasn't a contact on Jose, gave an offensive foul on Amir...

Either way, I'm looking forward to the lockout season. I hope it kills this league, similar to what the 05 lockout did to the NHL.
There was no contact on Jose. He lunged forward and lost the ball before there could even be any contact.

It was very similar to DeMAr's no-call that he argued. He falls down expecting contact from a guy moving away in an attempt to avoid contact. We tried to entice these guys into fouling and they played good disciplined defence. DeMar could have really used a pull-up jumper throughout the second half. Sheer aggression is not going to win games against most teams that can adjust and make it work against the Raptors.

I agree with oneiron - Bargnani and Barbosa could have been called countless times for steps.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:04 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Some key mistakes that you might expect from this team down the stretch. They should try to learn from it. The Raps have a history of getting beat down by the Hawks, so I don't mind the loss.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:05 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I thought Demar was a big part of our loss and he showed that he has a really low basketball IQ on offense and defense, the one good thing he did was not run his mouth off like other guys such as Steven Jackson would have done. Hate on Jose all you want but he did the right thing there. It's a shame he plays for the Raptors or isn't called Lebron James or Kobe Bryant.. His fans would be celebrating victory right now.

The NBA referees are really awful and biased. No one here can possibly tell me that, there wasn't enough contact to call a foul on Jose, especially when you have Crawford diving on the court like some Italian football player. NBA referees are so inconsistent with their calls it's not even funny. Had that drive been in the first, second, third or first 10 minutes of the fourth, it would sure as hell been a foul. Had that drive occurred in the Staples center and Jose was wearing a yellow jersey, a foul would be called. What's worse the same official who said that there wasn't a contact on Jose, gave an offensive foul on Amir...

Either way, I'm looking forward to the lockout season. I hope it kills this league, similar to what the 05 lockout did to the NHL.
I agree NBA refs are sometimes awful and biased, but that call on Jose was the right call, no foul. If Jose was a little more aggressive and invited more contact from Smith then it would have been a foul. Looking at the replays, there was no significant contact for a foul. I don't think it would have been a foul if Jose was in those scenarios or if those scenarios happened as said in the post.

As for DD, I am a fan of his and I'm not being biased at all, but I know well enough that DD was not a big part of the loss in this game.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:06 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Some key mistakes that you might expect from this team down the stretch. They should try to learn from it. The Raps have a history of getting beat down by the Hawks, so I don't mind the loss.
But when you come thus far, you want to beat them, You ain't getting second chances. The next game, raps gonna get hummered!!
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:07 PM   #72 (permalink)
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zone is for weak defensive teams. It pretty much says hey we can't guard you one on one. You give up a lot of open looks from the perimeter.
If zone is for weak defensive teams, how were the Mavs doing so well before Dirk went down? They were playing zone defense.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:08 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Some key mistakes that you might expect from this team down the stretch. They should try to learn from it. The Raps have a history of getting beat down by the Hawks, so I don't mind the loss.
I agree, all the Raps can do it learn from those mistakes. Yeah the Hawks are known to beat us bad, I want to see them win big against them. Ive always hated Bibby lol
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:10 PM   #74 (permalink)
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fucking jamal crawford. if he played every game against the raps he'd be a top 50 player of all time.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:10 PM   #75 (permalink)
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If zone is for weak defensive teams, how were the Mavs doing so well before Dirk went down? They were playing zone defense.
They didn't play zone for 20 minutes a game, just to change the tempo a little bit!
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:10 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Jose should not have that play in his hands at the end of the game. Bayless or DeRozan should be driving it. They can draw contact and finish.

They played great tonight imo. They made a few rookie mistakes that killed them but it's expected. This is practice for them. It's gonna be interesting watching them this road trip now that we have a full roster.

I wonder how Sonny feels now that he has to fight Julian for minutes lol
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:11 PM   #77 (permalink)
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If zone is for weak defensive teams, how were the Mavs doing so well before Dirk went down? They were playing zone defense.
The Mavs were usually never known as a good defensive team. Only until now but, they've also got some guys who can still defend one on one on occasions. Kidd Marion and Chandler are all great defenders. Bargnani Jose and Derozan are not.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:13 PM   #78 (permalink)
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They didn't play zone for 20 minutes a game, just to change the tempo a little bit!
Lol, I guess thats true, but zone isn't for weak defensive teams though.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:17 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Lol, I guess thats true, but zone isn't for weak defensive teams though.
Good luck rebounding the ball. When you've got Bargnani as your centre.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:19 PM   #80 (permalink)
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The Mavs were usually never known as a good defensive team. Only until now but, they've also got some guys who can still defend one on one on occasions. Kidd Marion and Chandler are all great defenders. Bargnani Jose and Derozan are not.
I agree, before Chandler arrived the Mavs weren't as good as they are now on defense. But even with Chandler, the still played zone defense. All I'm saying is that zone isn't for weak defensive teams. I don't see any system or tactic meant for weak defensive team or any specific team.

Bargs can guard one on one pretty well sometimes, the same with DD but he's still improving on his. Both play with effort on man to man defense. Jose too, almost forgot him lol. But Jose probably has the worst D among the three. That time when he was defending Udrih and turned his back on him and tried to close out on him killed me.

What Bargs needs to work on is help defense and rebounding, while Derozan needs to work on getting off screens and closing out.
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