POST GAME: Toronto Raptors 97 - San Antonio Spurs 107 - Page 5
Old 12-21-2008, 02:39 AM   #81 (permalink)
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I think Delfino was a huge difference he won or helped us win 10-15 games last season and we had more depth with 2 solid PGs
Delfino is garbage ... can we stop talking about him?
Detroit let him go for two second round picks and Raptors let him go for free. With or without Delfino, we would be in the same situation right now. Last season we won because TJ and Jose combination worked very well. Raptors misses TJ more than Delfino and more than many wants to acknowledge.
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Old 12-21-2008, 02:51 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Delfino is garbage ... can we stop talking about him?
Detroit let him go for two second round picks and Raptors let him go for free. With or without Delfino, we would be in the same situation right now. Last season we won because TJ and Jose combination worked very well. Raptors misses TJ more than Delfino and more than many wants to acknowledge.
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Old 12-21-2008, 03:02 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Seriously though, Jose does a really horrible job of fighting through screens.

Maybe Ukic or Solomon can help him oout and show him how to do it.

That being said maybe he was afraid of crapping himself on the floor.
hahaha the last part was funny but what we need is jose to teach roko and WILL SOLOMON how 2 controll the ball and shoot it !!!!!!!
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:48 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Are we going insane now when we say our team misses TJ . TJ numbers are garbage in Indy where he gets to be the number 1 guy. Secondly , the Pacers first choice was Jose and we decided to keep the better player. You guys just don't get it TJ IS A GREAT PLAYER ONLY IF YOU ASK HIM. The guy we really miss is Rasho. We miss him more. As much as i think TJ is shit I wished he could have taught Jose how to jack up alot more shots because Jose is a better overall shooter then Ford just think about how much better our offence would be if Jose would jack up the same amount of shots like TJ. LOL

Last edited by raptor123; 12-21-2008 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 12-21-2008, 03:19 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Are we going insane now when we say our team misses TJ . TJ numbers are garbage in Indy where he gets to be the number 1 guy. Secondly , the Pacers first choice was Jose and we decided to keep the better player. You guys just don't get it TJ IS A GREAT PLAYER ONLY IF YOU ASK HIM. The guy we really miss is Rasho. We miss him more. As much as i think TJ is shit I wished he could have taught Jose how to jack up alot more shots because Jose is a better overall shooter then Ford just think about how much better our offence would be if Jose would jack up the same amount of shots like TJ. LOL
Jose's 1st full year as starter, looking stellar, i mean it's all about numbers right? Not wins. How many did TJ win as full time starter in Toronto again?? Ok, call me when we surpass that number and you have a better arguement.
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Old 12-21-2008, 03:29 PM   #86 (permalink)
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GO LEAFS GO!!!

Raps played respectable, Spurs hit shots when they were supposed to which killed all of the raps runs
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Old 12-21-2008, 03:51 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Jose's 1st full year as starter, looking stellar, i mean it's all about numbers right? Not wins. How many did TJ win as full time starter in Toronto again?? Ok, call me when we surpass that number and you have a better arguement.
we made a great choice by keeping jose he is the better player out of the 2 , we couldnt have keep ford and jose together becuz 1 ford will nevver want to come of the bench and two jose would never get his chance to shine . it has nothing to do with jose why we are losing its a team effort everyone contributes if one person doesnt then it has a toll on the team. if Bosh isnt playing good Bargs isnt playing good and if oneal is haveing problems we are goonna lose end of the story wut we really need to do is get the fricken rebound and untill we do soo other teams are gonna kill us with there second chance oppurtunities.
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Old 12-21-2008, 03:56 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Jose's 1st full year as starter, looking stellar, i mean it's all about numbers right? Not wins. How many did TJ win as full time starter in Toronto again?? Ok, call me when we surpass that number and you have a better arguement.
Ugo you are right Jose was there to come off the bench, usually we would be behind and Jose would get our team back on track. The team spilt their minutes and Jose was our closer on our team. Thats how TJ lost his job because our team rocked when Jose came in the game. But like I keep telling you its not about Jose. Thats why I am all over you. Jose is just a piece of what is happening. Unlike your self and your sick friend stress you always point the finger to Jose. Both of you guys are suffering from depression I understand its hard for both of you when you always to TJ. But if you guys don't get better fast on your own i will have to bring in the and take you under my wing and spray you guys with some good drugs.lol
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:15 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Ugo you are right Jose was there to come off the bench, usually we would be behind and Jose would get our team back on track. The team spilt their minutes and Jose was our closer on our team. Thats how TJ lost his job because our team rocked when Jose came in the game. But like I keep telling you its not about Jose. Thats why I am all over you. Jose is just a piece of what is happening. Unlike your self and your sick friend stress you always point the finger to Jose. Both of you guys are suffering from depression I understand its hard for both of you when you always to TJ. But if you guys don't get better fast on your own i will have to bring in the and take you under my wing and spray you guys with some good drugs.lol
why are you making up stuff that isnt true?? The year we won 47 games Jose wasnt close to splitting PT with TJ, he was by far the backup and nobody questioned that. Thx for trying to skew the facts tho!!
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:21 PM   #90 (permalink)
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The controversy started in TJ'S FIRST YEAR. Jose out played TJ even in the minutes he played.TJ played like a chicken with his head cut off..... Ugo are you ready tell me where we should pick you up. The drugs are ready
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:37 PM   #91 (permalink)
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The controversy started in TJ'S FIRST YEAR. Jose out played TJ even in the minutes he played.TJ played like a chicken with his head cut off..... Ugo are you ready tell me where we should pick you up. The drugs are ready
lol u funny :P but i agree with u and wut u r tryin 2 say
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Old 12-21-2008, 06:27 PM   #92 (permalink)
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he was always in the same position.
bosh is what he always was - a jump shooter with a quickness advantage over slower PFs. He's probably a top 5 PF in the league and maybe a top 25 player in the whole league. When he had a string of good performances, some people made him to be a MVP type of player, which he never was, and probably never will be. If this team adds one or two good pieces, his game will improve a lot. However, he is not that rare player who can carry a team by itself.

While MVP type of guards carry the team with scorin, MVP type of big men can only carry their team with defense, which is his weak point. Bosh, like Jose, can be crucial pieces in a championship team, but it needs to be a team constructed like Detroit, with quality players at all positions. Asking Bosh or Jose to carry this team is unreasonable, so it's not their fault when they can't.

However, the problem with Bosh is that he will ask for MVP type of money in 2010, and I can't really justify that.
Top to bottom this is probably the most reasonable post that I've seen in this thread.

Nice job Milk.

A better effort last night against SA. Sucks that we lost but playing the Spurs on the second night of a b2b with our squad... what can you really hope for?

Did anyone else hear what Duncan said about his team? Something to the effect of... "It's nice to be able to just play my position and not worry about carrying my team on my back every night out." He realizes that it takes teammates to win. People here have to start realizing it too.
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:06 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Tony Parker shoots 11-19 and leads the Spurs with 24 points, Jose is on the court guarding him for 35 minutes, and only picks up one foul.

Something is wrong there.

If you're a bad defender which Jose is, eventually you got to take it personally. When the opposing team is going at you, which SA was, you got to take it as an insult and buckle down and stop somebody no matter what the cost. You got to pull, grab, do whatever it takes to stop that guy. You get called for a couple fouls, so what. Our guards got to stop letting opposing backcourts do whatever the hell they want, each and every game.

Jose should be fouling out every night. When you're a poor defender you should be picking up fouls. If he busted his ass and picked up 100 fouls in the next 20 games he might be half way to becoming a decent defender by the end of the year.

You don't get better by just going through the motions of what you think good defense is and not actually making the guy you're guarding uncomfortable.

I've seen Jose one time, come into a game looking like he wanted to actually stop somebody and that was against Stuckney earlier in the year. Usually he just looks like he's trying to not get embarrassed.

This team will not get better until they start taking some pride in their defense and right now nobody is doing that. A good place for it to start would be with the fan favourite, the matador. You can't expect teammates to follow your lead offensively when you're getting lit up on the defensive end every night.

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Old 12-22-2008, 12:09 AM   #94 (permalink)
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thanks ... I can hear LX thinking about the holy trinity again ...

regarding jose vs tj, the bottom line was that even if you think TJ is a better player, it's obviously not by much. He's not at Paul/Williams/Billups/Nash, or even Harris level. Maybe he's a slight upgrade over calderon, let's work under that assumption. And then the question is, is it worth taking a slight performance upgrade in TJ when the downside is a HUGE injury risk? TJ was on the brink of retirement after Atlanta. If TJ was the next Chris Paul, I could understand taking the chance - but since at best he's a minor upgrade over Jose, it's really stupid to keep going the "what if" route. It was an easy decision to make for Bryan, and probably 99.99% of people in his position would do the same thing.
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:13 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Top to bottom this is probably the most reasonable post that I've seen in this thread.

Nice job Milk.

A better effort last night against SA. Sucks that we lost but playing the Spurs on the second night of a b2b with our squad... what can you really hope for?

Did anyone else hear what Duncan said about his team? Something to the effect of... "It's nice to be able to just play my position and not worry about carrying my team on my back every night out." He realizes that it takes teammates to win. People here have to start realizing it too.

But Bosh has good teammates according to you. Don't you remember it was you who was convinced that it was Sam who made that made them look bad? Remeber that? Huh? We have a good team, but the coaching is making them look awful? So which one is it? Bosh has good teamates that aren't being used properly in a "system" that makes them look good and plays to their strenghts or he has no one to help him and is surrounded by scrubs? I expect your answer by 10:00am.
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:08 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Bosh doesn't have great team mates. I would say the coach is good but either we aren't learning quick enough or team doesn't respect him. The only reason I say the team mates aren't good are because they don't give the proper touches to CB. Especially Jose, when the Raps are on a fast break.
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:35 PM   #97 (permalink)
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But Bosh has good teammates according to you. Don't you remember it was you who was convinced that it was Sam who made that made them look bad? Remeber that? Huh? We have a good team, but the coaching is making them look awful? So which one is it? Bosh has good teamates that aren't being used properly in a "system" that makes them look good and plays to their strenghts or he has no one to help him and is surrounded by scrubs? I expect your answer by 10:00am.
Lol... I said that it was reasonable. Not that I agreed with everything 100%.

I do still think that there IS enough on this roster that we shouldn't be losing every damn game.... we obviously aren't good enough to go anywhere in the playoffs though (if we even make it there).

You can go on & on all you want about "the system". I went by what I saw on the court, what I read in the stats, and what the players themselves said. Each and every one of them seemed to be happy with the new defensive schemes that Triano had implemented... and each of them seemed to appreciate Jay's more personal approach to coaching. If you want to tell me that you know better than them that's fine.
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:50 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Lol... I said that it was reasonable. Not that I agreed with everything 100%.

I do still think that there IS enough on this roster that we shouldn't be losing every damn game.... we obviously aren't good enough to go anywhere in the playoffs though (if we even make it there).

You can go on & on all you want about "the system". I went by what I saw on the court, what I read in the stats, and what the players themselves said. Each and every one of them seemed to be happy with the new defensive schemes that Triano had implemented... and each of them seemed to appreciate Jay's more personal approach to coaching. If you want to tell me that you know better than them that's fine.
I don't know anything...never said I did.

What I do know is when people contradict themselves all the time to suit their needs.

I hope the players appreciate 2-9...you know a sort of personal approach to losing.
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:55 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Bottom line is, if people felt coaching was the issue, then BC should of wiped the slate clean and fired the entire staff. I like Jay as much as some of the others here do, but the "apple" and fundementals/philosophies don't fall too far from the tree. So people have to start making up their mind on whether they think its the coaching systems or the fact that we as fans as well Colangelo have overrated our talent.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:02 PM   #100 (permalink)
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I think we've been so shitty lately that it's easy to point fingers at everyone.

It's the coach, it's the players, it's the GM, it's the mascot, it's Devlin...

I think we needed Sam to finish this season. The team looks like a rudderless ship without him.

That being said, I am pulling for Jay. I hope that they can't turn it around and go on a nice run in January.
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