Poll: Playoffs@Tank - Page 4

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Team Playoffs 32 43.84%
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:40 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Doesn't option of signing Lowry long-term just stare in your face? No need to clear cap, no need to wait if and until new face meshes with the team. How many better PGs are available out there?

Edit: 2014 FA market will be busy. Many teams clear capspace and bidding for good players will be insane
I don't want to compete with that
Why would Lowry even consider signing in toronto? Would you take the risk that he doesn't and we lose him for nothing? Would you massively overpay to keep him?
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:53 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Why would Lowry even consider signing in toronto? Would you take the risk that he doesn't and we lose him for nothing? Would you massively overpay to keep him?
Maybe he likes who he's playing with. Maybe he likes it here. Maybe he likes the direction Masai is going in. Maybe he's seeing that his options are being a back-up elsewhere versus being a starter here. Maybe the teams that would pursue him aren't better than the Raptors. Maybe a deal is offered here before the trade deadline that works for him and the team. And if he wants to go the FA route, there is still a ways to go till the trade deadline for making a move. A move does not have to be made now.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:00 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Maybe he likes who he's playing with. Maybe he likes it here. Maybe he likes the direction Masai is going in. Maybe he's seeing that his options are being a back-up elsewhere versus being a starter here. Maybe the teams that would pursue him aren't better than the Raptors. Maybe a deal is offered here before the trade deadline that works for him and the team. And if he wants to go the FA route, there is still a ways to go till the trade deadline for making a move. A move does not have to be made now.
I see a lot of maybes and assumptions there.
But then again you are all knowing, great Nigglesdamus.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:18 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Maybe he likes who he's playing with. Maybe he likes it here. Maybe he likes the direction Masai is going in. Maybe he's seeing that his options are being a back-up elsewhere versus being a starter here. Maybe the teams that would pursue him aren't better than the Raptors. Maybe a deal is offered here before the trade deadline that works for him and the team. And if he wants to go the FA route, there is still a ways to go till the trade deadline for making a move. A move does not have to be made now.
as koolaid said, that's a lot of maybes. so maybe, just maybe, you can get him and probably overpay for him. if i were masai, i'd take certain assets over possible assets, every time. maybe has bitten us in the past (bosh!).
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:33 AM   #65 (permalink)
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as koolaid said, that's a lot of maybes. so maybe, just maybe, you can get him and probably overpay for him. if i were masai, i'd take certain assets over possible assets, every time. maybe has bitten us in the past (bosh!).
I wouldn't per se call a draft pick a certain asset, at least not if you decide to use it yourself. With Lowry you know exactly what you have. With a newly drafted player you don't.

What Koolaid forgets to mention is that his preferred vision of the Raps future contains just as many maybe's as about any other fans' plans out there. There are no certainties regarding the future, none.

I have no further opinion regarding this matter, since I haven't been following this topic. I'm neither on or off the tank at this moment.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:37 AM   #66 (permalink)
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as koolaid said, that's a lot of maybes. so maybe, just maybe, you can get him and probably overpay for him. if i were masai, i'd take certain assets over possible assets, every time. maybe has bitten us in the past (bosh!).
Your original question was:

Why would Lowry even consider signing in toronto?

I gave you a range of possible reasons. I haven't assumed he would re-sign. Or assumed he wouldn't.

Nor have I said overpay him. I said a contract that worked for both sides. That means satisfying his wants and not overpaying him.

I also said, if that didn't happen, there was still time from here before the trade deadline to move him and we didn't have to do anything right now.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:18 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Your original question was:

Why would Lowry even consider signing in toronto?

I gave you a range of possible reasons. I haven't assumed he would re-sign. Or assumed he wouldn't.

Nor have I said overpay him. I said a contract that worked for both sides. That means satisfying his wants and not overpaying him.

I also said, if that didn't happen, there was still time from here before the trade deadline to move him and we didn't have to do anything right now.
There's no "if" that didn't happen, if you are talking about an extension. Lowry will not sign an extension for any amount. He would leave a year of contract length on the table by signing an extension (two if he planned to re-sign here). He is also limited to about a 7M annual salary. No way he takes that when the seller's market of the 2014 offseason is months away. At worst, he signs for that 7M, and would have left 7 to 14 million on the table by extending. At best, he signs for closer to 10 million over 4 or 5 years, leaving 19 to 29 million on the table.

So, remember, even if he WANTS to play here, likes the city, his teammates, etc, all the optimistic assumptions we like to make, he'd re-sign in free agency, not via extension. So there's no "trade him at the deadline if he doesn't re-sign." There's only "trade him" or "trust him to re-sign and risk losing him for nothing."

And, no we don't have to do anything right now. But right now is probably when his value is highest, with several teams in panic mode due to early season struggles, and a multitude of PG injuries occurring. Leverage will never be higher for a Lowry trade - so now is when a smart GM trades him, even ignoring the benefits of more losses the earlier he gets moved.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:28 AM   #68 (permalink)
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There's no "if" that didn't happen, if you are talking about an extension. Lowry will not sign an extension for any amount. He would leave a year of contract length on the table by signing an extension (two if he planned to re-sign here). He is also limited to about a 7M annual salary. No way he takes that when the seller's market of the 2014 offseason is months away. At worst, he signs for that 7M, and would have left 7 to 14 million on the table by extending. At best, he signs for closer to 10 million over 4 or 5 years, leaving 19 to 29 million on the table.

So, remember, even if he WANTS to play here, likes the city, his teammates, etc, all the optimistic assumptions we like to make, he'd re-sign in free agency, not via extension. So there's no "trade him at the deadline if he doesn't re-sign." There's only "trade him" or "trust him to re-sign and risk losing him for nothing."

And, no we don't have to do anything right now. But right now is probably when his value is highest, with several teams in panic mode due to early season struggles, and a multitude of PG injuries occurring. Leverage will never be higher for a Lowry trade - so now is when a smart GM trades him, even ignoring the benefits of more losses the earlier he gets moved.
OK, that's logical. The only situation I can see in the next few weeks that might change the leverage is if the PG on one of the real championship contenders goes down with a major injury.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:23 AM   #69 (permalink)
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OK, that's logical. The only situation I can see in the next few weeks that might change the leverage is if the PG on one of the real championship contenders goes down with a major injury.
Quite a thing to hope for. In the meantime, the currently injured stock starts getting better. Risky business. But I won't complain if the results are good, no matter what the path chosen. Happy to be wrong. But don't expect to be.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:33 AM   #70 (permalink)
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why no team treadmill option

I like team treadmill
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:34 AM   #71 (permalink)
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why no team treadmill option

I like team treadmill
Exactly! At least you know what to expect, year in year out. :cookie:
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:51 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Quite a thing to hope for. In the meantime, the currently injured stock starts getting better. Risky business. But I won't complain if the results are good, no matter what the path chosen. Happy to be wrong. But don't expect to be.
Is it a possibility under the CBA, if Lowry does not sign a new contract with the Raptors, for the Raptors to do a sign and trade with his chosen team and extract some return on the asset that way?
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:51 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Its possible but iirc he can't sign for 5 years, and if the other team has cap room they would have no reason to not sign him outright.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:05 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Is it a possibility under the CBA, if Lowry does not sign a new contract with the Raptors, for the Raptors to do a sign and trade with his chosen team and extract some return on the asset that way?
Yeah, but that'll only work if the team is over the cap and needs to do it, otherwise why would they give up assets? Plus any assets that come back (in the unlikely scenario we get anything) will be attached to salary ballast, which would be significant if Lowry signs a significant deal.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:15 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Yeah, but that'll only work if the team is over the cap and needs to do it, otherwise why would they give up assets? Plus any assets that come back (in the unlikely scenario we get anything) will be attached to salary ballast, which would be significant if Lowry signs a significant deal.
Well, Denver did it last year with Andre Igoudala and Ujiri didn't trade him even though he was an expiring. If Lowry chooses to go to a team that has not enough cap space, that might matter as much as the size of the deal that Lowry gets.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:24 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Well, Denver did it last year with Andre Igoudala and Ujiri didn't trade him even though he was an expiring. If Lowry chooses to go to a team that has not enough cap space, that might matter as much as the size of the deal that Lowry gets.
and what did denver get, foye? It's like us trading him to nyk for felton ...
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:30 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Yeah, DEN got pretty much nothing for Iggy. And that's the most likely scenario - some no-longer-young player who is still a "prospect" because they never really panned out.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:35 PM   #78 (permalink)
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and what did denver get, foye? It's like us trading him to nyk for felton ...
The important parts are:

1) The Raptors still get the chemistry continuity of Lowry for the balance of this season.

2) The player didn't leave with absolutely no return on the asset.

3) It's an example of what Ujiri chose to do in a similar situation.

4) Foye is actually making a worthwhile contribution to Denver.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:46 PM   #79 (permalink)
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The important parts are:

1) The Raptors still get the chemistry continuity of Lowry for the balance of this season.

2) The player didn't leave with absolutely no return on the asset.

3) It's an example of what Ujiri chose to do in a similar situation.

4) Foye is actually making a worthwhile contribution to Denver.
Ujiri wasn't there anymore. And I believe the story is that Iggy would have re-signed if Ujiri had still been there. Plus they needed Utah to step in to make the deal happen - he was just walking straight up until the last minute when they were lucky - LUCKY - to extract as much value as Randy Foye (RANDY FOYE).

Also, half the league has huge cap space next summer. That wasn't true last summer. Very big risk.
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:03 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Ujiri wasn't there anymore. And I believe the story is that Iggy would have re-signed if Ujiri had still been there. Plus they needed Utah to step in to make the deal happen - he was just walking straight up until the last minute when they were lucky - LUCKY - to extract as much value as Randy Foye (RANDY FOYE).

Also, half the league has huge cap space next summer. That wasn't true last summer. Very big risk.
There's alway's risk of some sort. The offers that Ujiri may get now may not be the things that he thinks are in the future interest of the Raptors, and I doubt he would make a trade that didn't have some future benefit for the team( e.g. the future first from NY- we don't know his assessment of THJ or IS, and we can probably guess about Felton who is an obligation for next year as well. And Lowry re-signing with us isn't a probability, but it is a possibility. He can get more elsewhere, but we are the third team he's played on, and maybe the money is important, but the continuity and stability can also factor into a players choices.
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