Poll: Playoffs@Tank - Page 2

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View Poll Results: Team
Team Playoffs 32 43.84%
Team Tank 41 56.16%
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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In this thread: a lot of different definitions of tank.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Jazz View Post
You guys close your eyes on a players we currently have. DeRozan, Jonas, Amir, Hansborough and Lowry are no quiters, they won't tank. And they are good enough to win enough games to keep us from that top 5 draft position. Hoping that dude like Exum or Smart will make is into contender all of a sudden is ridiculous. Hoping that lottery will smile our way and you leapfrog teams with better odds is quite silly as well.
Lets say Masai trades Lowry and maybe Amir. What you have is DeRozan, JV and Ross with some decent role players. No guarantee that you will even have a chance to draft Wiggins, Parker or Randle. So then what? Season wasted on tanking when there is great chance to make playoffs. Jerry Sloan said once that single playoff series is more valuable for player development then regular season - I would rather have JV and DeRozan experience that than stupid tanking for false hope.
So missing out on top 3 but still adding a good prospect is a wasted season to you, but making the playoffs with a below .500 record knowing that we have no chance to actually get anywhere with this core isn't a waste?


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Old 12-16-2013, 02:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
So missing out on top 3 but still adding a good prospect is a wasted season to you, but making the playoffs with a below .500 record knowing that we have no chance to actually get anywhere with this core isn't a waste?

Yes
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
So missing out on top 3 but still adding a good prospect is a wasted season to you, but making the playoffs with a below .500 record knowing that we have no chance to actually get anywhere with this core isn't a waste?
Playoffs are never a waste when you consider what kind of positive influence it will be for JV, DeRozan and Ross. And depending where we will end up we may have decent chance at making to second round.
And prospect is just a prospect. Might turn into a star or may bust his knees and be out of the league. Or may turn into Rafael Araujo.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:01 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Maybe its just me, but playing JV, Ross, and Demar 35+ mpg in a tank effort would benefit them more than coming off the bench for 4-6 games in the playoffs.

A prospect is a prospect, but a top 5 pick gives this team a way better chance to get a star, or even all star, than it has right now.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:09 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
Maybe its just me, but playing JV, Ross, and Demar 35+ mpg in a tank effort would benefit them more than coming off the bench for 4-6 games in the playoffs.

A prospect is a prospect, but a top 5 pick gives this team a way better chance to get a star, or even all star, than it has right now.
Well I guess we will just disagree on this topic. Losing and hoping for luck in lottery is never good IMHO. To tell DeRozan and JV that "hey, you guys are not good enough to be All stars so lets stay losers and we will draft a "maybe" all star" is so wrong. Why not send a message that we believe that THEY can turn into All-stars one day?
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
Maybe its just me, but playing JV, Ross, and Demar 35+ mpg in a tank effort would benefit them more than coming off the bench for 4-6 games in the playoffs.

A prospect is a prospect, but a top 5 pick gives this team a way better chance to get a star, or even all star, than it has right now.
If we make the playoffs, why are JV, Ross and Demar " coming off the bench"?

Are JV and Demar not starters on the team? Is Ross going to play so poorly that he has to go to the bench? And what if JV and Demar and Ross are getting 35+ mpg on a team playoff bound? Aren't those 35+ minutes more valuable than 35+ minutes on a team that lose's an ever increasing number of games?
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LOG View Post
No it doesn't There are at least 2 guys that could go first and 5 guys who could go 2nd or third overall any other draft

FYP.

Last edited by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu; 12-16-2013 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
If we make the playoffs, why are JV, Ross and Demar " coming off the bench"?

Are JV and Demar not starters on the team? Is Ross going to play so poorly that he has to go to the bench? And what if JV and Demar and Ross are getting 35+ mpg on a team playoff bound? Aren't those 35+ minutes more valuable than 35+ minutes on a team that lose's an ever increasing number of games?
Because it doesn't fit an agenda to have them start.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Because it doesn't fit an agenda to have them start.
What agenda? Whose agenda? Who's starting then?
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:51 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
If we make the playoffs, why are JV, Ross and Demar " coming off the bench"?

Are JV and Demar not starters on the team? Is Ross going to play so poorly that he has to go to the bench? And what if JV and Demar and Ross are getting 35+ mpg on a team playoff bound? Aren't those 35+ minutes more valuable than 35+ minutes on a team that lose's an ever increasing number of games?
Not JV and Demar, but Ross is definitely not the guy you want to start in playoff games. He still makes a lot of mistakes, so I made the assumption that if we made the playoffs we'd be making them because Masai improved the team because this squad as constructed is not a playoff caliber squad. If these improvements came, you bet your ass those 3 guys would be playing less, especially Ross.
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:01 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
FYP.
Wiggins, Randle, Parker, Exum, Smart, Embiid, and Aaron Gordon all could have gone first in many of the recent drafts.

Let's use the 2011 draft as an example since its not weak and not amazing either.

Wiggins, Randle, Parker - surefire no. 1 ahead of Kyrie

Exum, Smart, Embiid - definite top 3 picks with a chance to go no. 1

Gordon - Top 5 pick with an outside chance on no. 1

Its definitely not unreasonable to say that 7 of the guys in the draft could have been no. 1 picks.

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Old 12-16-2013, 05:09 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
Not JV and Demar, but Ross is definitely not the guy you want to start in playoff games. He still makes a lot of mistakes, so I made the assumption that if we made the playoffs we'd be making them because Masai improved the team because this squad as constructed is not a playoff caliber squad. If these improvements came, you bet your ass those 3 guys would be playing less, especially Ross.
So if Masai improves the team, and JV and Demar are still on the team & Ross is on the bench, then you are suggesting that Masai can improve the team enough to be in the playoffs.
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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So if Masai improves the team, and JV and Demar are still on the team & Ross is on the bench, then you are suggesting that Masai can improve the team enough to be in the playoffs.
I haven't said he couldn't. I've just said it wouldn't be beneficial to give up future assets (like picks which we would be giving away in that scenario) for a shot at the playoffs this year with a team that doesn't have a bright future.

By the looks of the poll, most agree with me.
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:38 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Sorry for the double post (chicago game thread)
Just look at the 2013 draft. Who are the players which +- standout now?
2 Orlando Victor Oladipo
9 Utah Trey Burke
10 Portland CJ McCollum
11 Philadelphia Michael Carter-Williams
13 Boston Kelly Olynyk
15 Milwaukee Giannis Adetokoubo
22 Brooklyn Mason Plumlee
24 New York Tim Hardaway Jr
38 Milwaukee Nate Wolters
Sorry if I missed someone. But as you can see, getting a good prospect out of draft is not about how high or low is your pick, it is about how advanced and smart your scouting are.
Ok you would say, its only the 2013 draft.
other great picks out of top 10 in the past few years:
29 Chicago Marquis Teague
25 Memphis Tony Wroten
14 Milwaukee John Henson
9 Detroit Andre Drummond
60 Sacramento Isaiah Thomas
38 Houston Chandler Parsons
30 Chicago Jimmy Butler
22 Denver Kenneth Faried
11 Golden St. Klay Thompson
9 Charlotte Kemba Walker
40 Indiana Lance Stephenson
19 Boston Avery Bradley
18 Oklahoma Cty Eric Bledsoe
15 Milwaukee Larry Sanders
10 Indiana Paul George
12 Memphis Xavier Henry
this is a small sample of a very long list..

This hype blows people minds, so they don't see anything behind the projected top10

Last edited by Rompeprop; 12-16-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
I haven't said he couldn't. I've just said it wouldn't be beneficial to give up future assets (like picks which we would be giving away in that scenario) for a shot at the playoffs this year with a team that doesn't have a bright future.

By the looks of the poll, most agree with me.
You're making a lot of assumptions, even suggesting from your comment, that Masai would do things detrimental to the franchise's heath. I did not realize that you had that little faith in him.

Then, I suppose that all those in the poll that " agree" with you, might have the same notions that Masai might be detrimental for the health of franchise if he doesn't follow your plan. Masai must have been pulling the wool over our eyes when he said " build a culture of winning". I suppose those that don't subscribe to the tanking theory, and have different ideas of how the team should proceed and think there are other routes that lead to the goal, are just dolt's.

Poll results, mean nothing. Your logic becomes more twisted as this debate goes on and on and on and on and on and on. And if Masai's plan is not your plan, what do you do then?
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:54 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rompeprop View Post
Sorry for the double post (chicago game thread)
Just look at the 2013 draft. Who are the players which +- standout now?
2 Orlando Victor Oladipo
9 Utah Trey Burke
10 Portland CJ McCollum
11 Philadelphia Michael Carter-Williams
13 Boston Kelly Olynyk
15 Milwaukee Giannis Adetokoubo
22 Brooklyn Mason Plumlee
24 New York Tim Hardaway Jr
38 Milwaukee Nate Wolters
So in a weak draft, the top guys don't stand out? Thanks Sherlock.

Sorry if I missed someone. But as you can see, getting a good prospect out of draft is not about how high or low is your pick, it is about how advanced and smart your scouting are.
Ok you would say, its only the 2013 draft.
other great picks out of top 10 in the past few years:
29 Chicago Marquis Teague
25 Memphis Tony Wroten
14 Milwaukee John Henson
9 Detroit Andre Drummond
60 Sacramento Isaiah Thomas
38 Houston Chandler Parsons
30 Chicago Jimmy Butler
22 Denver Kenneth Faried
11 Golden St. Klay Thompson
9 Charlotte Kemba Walker
40 Indiana Lance Stephenson
19 Boston Avery Bradley
18 Oklahoma Cty Eric Bledsoe
15 Milwaukee Larry Sanders
10 Indiana Paul George
12 Memphis Xavier Henry
this is a small sample of a very long list..

This hype blows people minds, so they don't see anything behind the projected top10
Marquis Teague is a scrub, and the best players on your list were all top ten picks, but nobody is arguing that talent can be found later in the draft, it's just that it's more likely to be found at the top of the draft.
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Old 12-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by niggles View Post
You're making a lot of assumptions, even suggesting from your comment, that Masai would do things detrimental to the franchise's heath. I did not realize that you had that little faith in him.

Then, I suppose that all those in the poll that " agree" with you, might have the same notions that Masai might be detrimental for the health of franchise if he doesn't follow your plan. Masai must have been pulling the wool over our eyes when he said " build a culture of winning". I suppose those that don't subscribe to the tanking theory, and have different ideas of how the team should proceed and think there are other routes that lead to the goal, are just dolt's.

Poll results, mean nothing. Your logic becomes more twisted as this debate goes on and on and on and on and on and on. And if Masai's plan is not your plan, what do you do then?
I made that assumption because that's the only way this team is making any kind of splash in the playoffs this year. If Masai chooses to go that direction over rebuilding, you're damn right that's detrimental to the future, which is exactly why he won't do it. Standing pat where we are is detrimental too, which is why he shouldn't do it either, if he's actually as good a GM as we believe.

According to you, Masai has a pretty funny definition of No Mans Land. Similarly, how do you know what Masai means when he says "winning culture". He could mean he wants to have a winning culture that is focused on winning championships, rather than winning 6th seeds. Plus, that was said right when he arrived here and his tone has changed since.

Last edited by KoolAid; 12-16-2013 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 12-16-2013, 06:03 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
FYP.
That's your opinion not a fact, while I do agree that saying 7 is a stretch, because I have no way of proving it. You can't say 2 either for the same reason.
Imo Smart, Randle would be 1st overall on most drafts and Embiid, Exum, Gordon, 1-3rd
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Old 12-16-2013, 06:05 PM   #40 (permalink)
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What agenda? Whose agenda? Who's starting then?
Who's on first?
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