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View Poll Results: Team
Team Playoffs 34 77.27%
Team Tank 10 22.73%
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:24 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Even I'm starting to think its too late for a tank.

But then I remember we're the Raptors and always play down to our competition.
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Old 12-29-2013, 04:18 AM   #42 (permalink)
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4th seed by default and possibly 3rd if the Raptors keep this no-rudy play up? hmm I gotta say the tank is over. Paradoxically we can't compete with the crappy teams.
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Old 12-29-2013, 04:50 AM   #43 (permalink)
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You guys realize we're only 4 wins ahead of Orlando, Masai could easily start a tank now and succeed.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:42 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
You guys realize we're only 4 wins ahead of Orlando, Masai could easily start a tank now and succeed.
And how many wins you think Orlando (or similar teams) are going to get this season? I'd say they will get maybe 10-15 more. We would have to win less than ten (of our remaining 54) to have a good chance at high pick. With so many games against the tanking teams in the east thats almost impossible even without Lowry.

If we would trade Lowry now and try to tank we would end up between 6-10 pick. I dont think thats worth of giving up playoffs spot unless we get something of real value back from Lowry.
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:39 AM   #45 (permalink)
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MU may not want Lowry to walk for nothing, unless he plans on attempting to re-sign him. But the tank window is almost completely closed. It's too late for a real tank. Look around the league. MU would have to look at players in the eye and say....

1. I'm not a man of my word.

2. Though you've kept fighting, are now in 4th and have a great chance at the playoffs, I'm pulling the plug (unless we get rotation players that fit in back in a trade).

MU: "I'm not tanking"

fans: "You mean you're not tanking?...or you're not tanking-tanking?"

MU: "I'm not tanking"

fans: "You mean you're not tanking right away?"

MU: "I'm not tanking"

fans: "You mean you can't say you are, but you're really tanking?"

MU: "I'm not tanking"

fans: "He's tanking!"
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:44 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammo View Post
MU may not want Lowry to walk for nothing, unless he plans on attempting to re-sign him. But the tank window is almost completely closed. It's too late for a real tank. Look around the league. MU would have to look at players in the eye and say....

1. I'm not a man of my word.

2. Though you've kept fighting, are now in 4th and have a great chance at the playoffs, I'm pulling the plug (unless we get rotation players that fit in back in a trade).

MU: "I'm not tanking"

fans: "You mean you're not tanking?...or you're not tanking-tanking?"

MU: "I'm not tanking"

fans: "You mean you're not tanking right away?"

MU: "I'm not tanking"

fans: "You mean you can't say you are, but you're really tanking?"

MU: "I'm not tanking"

fans: "He's tanking!
"
LOL
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:31 AM   #47 (permalink)
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You guys realize we're only 4 wins ahead of Orlando, Masai could easily start a tank now and succeed.
Let me explain you something. We're not just 4 wins ahead. To have the same record we need to loss 4 in a row and Magic must win 4 in a row. What is the change of Orlando winning 4 in a row ? 5%?
So how many games they'll need to win these 4 games? their winning percentage is 0.31 ,so they will need AT LEAST 13 games to win 4 games. On the other side Toronto need to loose 13 in a row, and that's just not going to happen. I hope my explanation was pretty clear.

Last edited by Rompeprop; 12-29-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:16 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Let me explain you something. We're not just 4 wins ahead. To have the same record we need to loss 4 in a row and Magic must win 4 in a row. What is the change of Orlando winning 4 in a row ? 5%?
So how many games they'll need to win these 4 games? their winning percentage is 0.31 ,so they will need AT LEAST 13 games to win 4 games. On the other side Toronto need to loose 13 in a row, and that's just not going to happen. I hope my explanation was pretty clear.
that doesn't make any sense..
They don't need to loose 4 in a row, they would need to loose 4 more games than us from now on
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:56 AM   #49 (permalink)
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that doesn't make any sense..
They don't need to loose 4 in a row, they would need to loose 4 more games than us from now on
If Orlando plays the same way at .310 ball they finish with 25 wins (25.4). If we have 13 wins now and want to finish with 24 thats 11 wins in 54 games. Thats a .203 winning percentage thats required to finish below Orlando when the schedule is easier than ever. Not sure how you can't see that's impossible and that your post doesn't make any sense.

Edit; And to add to the points I've made about schedule, we have more home games than road games with 13 of 28 at home and have played less conference games than anyone at only 16 (which means we faced the best in the west alot already).

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Old 12-29-2013, 12:10 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
If Orlando plays the same way at .310 ball they finish with 25 wins (25.4). If we have 13 wins now and want to finish with 24 thats 11 wins in 54 games. Thats a .203 winning percentage thats required to finish below Orlando when the schedule is easier than ever. Not sure how you can't see that's impossible and that your post doesn't make any sense.

Edit; And to add to the points I've made about schedule, we have 2 more home games than road games with 13 of 28 at home and have played less conference games than anyone at only 16 (which means we faced the best in the west alot already).
+1
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:39 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
If Orlando plays the same way at .310 ball they finish with 25 wins (25.4). If we have 13 wins now and want to finish with 24 thats 11 wins in 54 games. Thats a .203 winning percentage thats required to finish below Orlando when the schedule is easier than ever. Not sure how you can't see that's impossible and that your post doesn't make any sense.

Edit; And to add to the points I've made about schedule, we have more home games than road games with 13 of 28 at home and have played less conference games than anyone at only 16 (which means we faced the best in the west alot already).
Please read it again, I'm not saying that we are going to loose more than Orlando

I'm not talking about any of that I know that tanking is very unlikely. I am saying that assuming those tanking trades do happen we don't need to loose 4 in a row or have Orlando win 4 in a row like Rompeprop was saying.
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Old 12-29-2013, 01:41 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Please read it again, I'm not saying that we are going to loose more than Orlando

I'm not talking about any of that I know that tanking is very unlikely. I am saying that assuming those tanking trades do happen we don't need to loose 4 in a row or have Orlando win 4 in a row like Rompeprop was saying.
You did not understood my post, read the second part of it.
In theory to have an equal record with Magic, Toronto need to loss 4 in a row and Orlando win 4. This is the best case "tank" scenario if we will compare these two teams. But in reality this will not happen, because statistically Orlando may win 5 out of next 16, and I don't see Raptors winning less than that in the next 16 games in the worst nightmare scenario. So if Raptors will start their tank campaign today, I'm afraid they're already out of the competition for the bottom top 4 , because these 3-4 bottom teams already have a handicap over us, and they will keep loosing.
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Old 12-29-2013, 01:45 PM   #53 (permalink)
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If Orlando keeps their full lineup for the remainder of the year, they'll win more games than you guys think. You need to realize that despite starting off terribly, they were without Glen Davis and Tobias Harris for November plus a good part of December, and Vuc/Nelson have each missed 4 games as well. Now that theyre healthy, they played decent, and won a few games.
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:03 PM   #54 (permalink)
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If Orlando keeps their full lineup for the remainder of the year, they'll win more games than you guys think. You need to realize that despite starting off terribly, they were without Glen Davis and Tobias Harris for November plus a good part of December, and Vuc/Nelson have each missed 4 games as well. Now that theyre healthy, they played decent, and won a few games.
Chi is getting worse. CLE lost bynum. The NYK do not get any better. Boston wants to lose. will SAC and UTAH suck more? PHI and MIL are done. Some will get better some will get worse. we have a far easier schedule than ORL. Maybe orlando wins 2 more games ...and we can play .220 ball instead. Still not going to happen and your just splitting hairs with this argument.

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Old 12-29-2013, 02:10 PM   #55 (permalink)
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If Orlando keeps their full lineup for the remainder of the year, they'll win more games than you guys think. You need to realize that despite starting off terribly, they were without Glen Davis and Tobias Harris for November plus a good part of December, and Vuc/Nelson have each missed 4 games as well. Now that theyre healthy, they played decent, and won a few games.
Tobias is starting to get it going and is looking fantastic. imo the weakest link now on that team is Jammer.
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:25 PM   #56 (permalink)
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We played good gritty smart basketball during Forderon and the Smitch days, and that collection of players ended up leading us nowhere because of the lack of core talent. We've had the same issue for years, and we have never rebuilt properly to correct the issue. The same thing is going to end up happening this year if we dont end up trading Lowry, which is my biggest fear as a fan, is coming back next year with the same type of roster and watching the mediocrity unfold with little hope for the future.
.
It went nowhere because they had to play carrying the 7 foot Italian on their shoulders. Take away a coach.s freedom and you have no chance. It had nothing to do with talent. Talent wasnt even given a chance. Collangelo killed this franchise. It had nothing to with tanking or not tanking.
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:30 PM   #57 (permalink)
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espn's rankings projects the 3rd worst team to get about 30 wins - a bunch of teams will get to that level. We are projected now to win 45 games, but without lowry, this team is toast. Instead of 7-3 we'd be 1-9 over the last 10 games without him, he is playing out of his mind now.

If 28 wins is where we need to be for a bottom 3 finish (I think a bottom 5 is almost as good this year though), we'd have to go 15 and 39 which is far from impossible. In fact, we'd be hard pressed to win 15 games if we trade lowry, salmons and patterson and get nothing positive in return (meaning no valuable players).
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:38 PM   #58 (permalink)
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ultimately though, the decision of trading lowry is not even about tanking. The way he's playing now, he's going to demand 10M and get it next summer. So the decision is, do we plan to resign him or not.

If we do, it means we're forgoing cap space this summer, and basically for the next 4 years, with the exception of the '15 summer (after that, we'd have to pay both ross and JV).

So in essence, the question is, if we keep lowry and win 45 games, the team we have now is pretty much locked. We may be able to improve the bench a bit through MLE and late draft picks, but the core is set.

The alternative is not to keep lowry and choose cap space. If that's the route MU choses, we have to trade lowry now to try to get some value (anything would be better than nothing).

If we do trade lowry, MU basically did what tankers wanted him to do, trade lowry and gay.If this is not enough to get a high draft pick, than such is life - but I think losing lowry will be enough to at least a bottom 7 pick, maybe as high as 5.
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:38 PM   #59 (permalink)
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It went nowhere because they had to play carrying the 7 foot Italian on their shoulders. Take away a coach.s freedom and you have no chance. It had nothing to do with talent. Talent wasnt even given a chance. Collangelo killed this franchise. It had nothing to with tanking or not tanking.
Really? After Bosh our next best players were Ford and Jose. Both players showed flashes of brilliance but never got to the next level of being a top 10 PG from being an above average PG. Then after them, you had quality role players like AP, Rasho and Garbo, but again, where's the core talent to pair with Bosh to take us to that next level?

Of course talent was an issue. We had average to below average talent surrounding Bosh, and it never improved, thus him leaving to Miami. I really do think that if we surrounded Bosh with better talent, he would have ended up staying, because he's shown, even with MIA, that he wants to be a primary guy offensively, and we could have given that to him, and him being the primary guy on the winning team and getting those accolades would have been something he wouldnt have passed up IMO.
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:41 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Got to agree with BDL. To say it had nothing to do with talent is quite false.
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