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View Poll Results: Team
Team Playoffs 34 77.27%
Team Tank 10 22.73%
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Who said it would be hard to tank?
Most anti tank fans including yourself. It's been said a million times on this board. Don't play dumb.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Most anti tank fans including yourself. It's been said a million times on this board. Don't play dumb.
I never said it would be hard, but i have said we WILL NOT be tanking this season.
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'd have to agree....we should take MU at his word that he won't tank. The other thing he said is that we won't be caught in no man's land. The two together would suggest growth, asset collection, free agency and dealing to improve the team. The tank is in fact the only thing that MU has outright rejected.

Some may think it's too really, but the one thing that has already changed is the culture. I can't think of one guy on this team that does not want to go to work. I hope that guys like Amir, JV, Demar, even new guys like Salmons and Patterson can show a guy like Ross that the light needs to be on 24/7. And I think if you really want it, the organization is one that could help a guy elevate his game in every area on and off the court. (nutrition, conditioning, approach, etc)

Sorry some people can't see the show Open Gym. MU said no more excuses, complaining about silly things like going through customs, no more gossip and blaming, or..."There's the door." Lazy and selfish are gone. Who's next?

Last edited by Ammo; 12-28-2013 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'd have to agree....we should take MU at his word that he won't tank. The other thing he said is that we won't be caught in no man's land. The two together would suggest growth, asset collection, free agency and dealing to improve the team. The tank is in fact the only thing that MU has outright rejected.

Some may think it's too really, but the one thing that has already changed is the culture. I can't think of one guy on this team that does not want to go to work. I hope that guys like Amir, JV, Demar, even new guys like Salmons and Patterson can show a guy like Ross that the light needs to be on 24/7. And I think if you really want it, the organization is one that could help a guy elevate his game in every area on and off the court. (nutrition, conditioning, approach, etc)

Sorry some people can't see the show Open Gym. MU said no more excuses, complaining about silly things like going through customs, no more gossip and blaming, or..."There's the door." Lazy and selfish are gone. Who's next?
THIS is honestly the most refreshing thing about this "post-Gay" team. Guys may make some bonehead mistakes at times but the effort is always there... no matter the score... which is something that we could rarely say in past years.

This is where it starts.
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:21 PM   #25 (permalink)
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THIS is honestly the most refreshing thing about this "post-Gay" team. Guys may make some bonehead mistakes at times but the effort is always there... no matter the score... which is something that we could rarely say in past years.

This is where it starts.
I completely agree with this as well. There is a sort of pride that we're seeing with most of the players, aside from a couple of our expressionless folks like Salmons and Lowry to an extent. Watching the games, you get a sense that they really believe in themselves, and the effort is that we've been seeing makes it worthwhile to continue to watch the games. I'm not saying I didn't like Rudy, but this team is much more balanced and I haven't experienced the same kind of frustration when tuning in.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think Masai wants to tank, but this team is playing better than he expected (after the trade) I really hope he has more tricks up his sleeves.
Indeed.

I really hope he has more tricks up his sleeve as well because this team could become like the Hawks or the Bucks for the next few years.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Who said it would be hard to tank?
if only you'd read as many posts as you write
two have said it in this topic alone, before my post. Here's one of them:

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Originally Posted by rapsmannn View Post
the problem with tanking at this point is where going to have to lose almost every game for now just to compete with a top 3 pick,
so rapsmann thinks that to make up the 3 extra wins we have over the team holding the 3rd worst record, we actually have to lose nearly every game?

you'd think we're Indiana based on comments like this. If anything, it may actually be easier to tank this season that most thought, because it appears that few teams are able to shed assets like they hoped. We're not along in failing to do that, Orlando, Philly and probably Boston are all trying without success (so far).

Without lowry, we'd have won none of the games we won lately. As long as we trade him and some of the bench guys, we'd be instant bottom feeder. He's by far our best player this season and, unfortunately, our bench is strengthen by a bunch of players that have no future here, so they only bring empty wins for us.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tran905 View Post
East is too crappy too tank. Let's make a run for 6th or 7th seed!
Dat logic. Every team sucks so let's just suck less!
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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if only you'd read as many posts as you write
two have said it in this topic alone, before my post. Here's one of them:



so rapsmann thinks that to make up the 3 extra wins we have over the team holding the 3rd worst record, we actually have to lose nearly every game?

you'd think we're Indiana based on comments like this. If anything, it may actually be easier to tank this season that most thought, because it appears that few teams are able to shed assets like they hoped. We're not along in failing to do that, Orlando, Philly and probably Boston are all trying without success (so far).

Without lowry, we'd have won none of the games we won lately. As long as we trade him and some of the bench guys, we'd be instant bottom feeder. He's by far our best player this season and, unfortunately, our bench is strengthen by a bunch of players that have no future here, so they only bring empty wins for us.
Man what are you talking about man? Vasquez will be kept as backup pg for 4 million/year for 3 years cuz you need a good backup pg aight. Then you need to reup PP for the same $ and years you dig. Then you have to resign Salmons to whatever cuz he brings winning culture despite the most attractive thing about him being his contract. On top of that you got to reup our best player KL despite it will hinder any flexibility on this team. Then with the almost nothing left of cap we'll be able to attract da best playas in freee agencee.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I completely agree with this as well. There is a sort of pride that we're seeing with most of the players, aside from a couple of our expressionless folks like Salmons and Lowry to an extent. Watching the games, you get a sense that they really believe in themselves, and the effort is that we've been seeing makes it worthwhile to continue to watch the games. I'm not saying I didn't like Rudy, but this team is much more balanced and I haven't experienced the same kind of frustration when tuning in.
You know that some people are starting to take things personally when a post like this one gets "thumbs down'd" lol.

I honestly don't know why some people even bother watching the games if they just want the Raps to suck and lose.

Masochists! Identify yourselves!
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:16 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Masochists!
Dude we're all masochists for being fans of this franchise.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:23 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Dude we're all masochists for being fans of this franchise.
That's true to a certain extent... but you'd think that after YEARS of watching sub-par efforts and blowout losses people would embrace some actual GOOD, gritty, smart basketball.

This recent stretch has actually made me start watching games again on a regular basis... whereas the last 2 years very nearly killed my interest in the franchise.
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:27 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
That's true to a certain extent... but you'd think that after YEARS of watching sub-par efforts and blowout losses people would embrace some actual GOOD, gritty, smart basketball.

This recent stretch has actually made me start watching games again on a regular basis... whereas the last 2 years very nearly killed my interest in the franchise.
We played good gritty smart basketball during Forderon and the Smitch days, and that collection of players ended up leading us nowhere because of the lack of core talent. We've had the same issue for years, and we have never rebuilt properly to correct the issue. The same thing is going to end up happening this year if we dont end up trading Lowry, which is my biggest fear as a fan, is coming back next year with the same type of roster and watching the mediocrity unfold with little hope for the future.

I know all non tank nation thinks Masai is a genius and will be able to right the ship without a lotto pick, but everyone thought the same of BC when he first got here too, and look how that turned out. I just think it's a lot easier for us to rebuild correctly with a top 5 pick, Jonas, Ross etc than having another mid round pick, losing Lowry for nothing, and having limited assets to be able to trade to make us better, which is what I'm sensing a lot of people want right now, is to keep Lowry and see how it plays out, which is IMO by far the worst thing that can happen, but likely will based on our franchises past history of making all the wrong decisions.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:39 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I'd have to agree....we should take MU at his word that he won't tank. The other thing he said is that we won't be caught in no man's land. The two together would suggest growth, asset collection, free agency and dealing to improve the team. The tank is in fact the only thing that MU has outright rejected.

Some may think it's too really, but the one thing that has already changed is the culture. I can't think of one guy on this team that does not want to go to work. I hope that guys like Amir, JV, Demar, even new guys like Salmons and Patterson can show a guy like Ross that the light needs to be on 24/7. And I think if you really want it, the organization is one that could help a guy elevate his game in every area on and off the court. (nutrition, conditioning, approach, etc)

Sorry some people can't see the show Open Gym. MU said no more excuses, complaining about silly things like going through customs, no more gossip and blaming, or..."There's the door." Lazy and selfish are gone. Who's next?
Well said, great post.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Lmao at the turnaround in votes. Just don't get too down when this team goes through a slump, which will inevitably happen.

For the record, I'm was & still am on Team Playoffs.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:49 PM   #36 (permalink)
playoffs please dont end

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Next few games will turn some of those votes back
We have a good chance in Chicago, but nothing is given
After that we are lucky to win 1 out of 4.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:51 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
That's true to a certain extent... but you'd think that after YEARS of watching sub-par efforts and blowout losses people would embrace some actual GOOD, gritty, smart basketball.

This recent stretch has actually made me start watching games again on a regular basis... whereas the last 2 years very nearly killed my interest in the franchise.
what's that got to do with anything? You have to make the best decision regardless whether you are enjoying it or not. In fact, making a decision based on the enjoyment factor is precisely what bad franchises do and the reason they stay bad. I enjoyed the 2006-07 season immensely and then regretted it for the next 7 years ... and counting.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:55 PM   #38 (permalink)
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what's that got to do with anything? You have to make the best decision regardless whether you are enjoying it or not. In fact, making a decision based on the enjoyment factor is precisely what bad franchises do and the reason they stay bad. I enjoyed the 2006-07 season immensely and then regretted it for the next 7 years ... and counting.
I enjoy games as a fan. I have zero to do with anything else. Colangelo effed up. Not by putting together a team that could bring enjoyment for a year, but in not being able to move forward from there, a few bad breaks and all. That has as much bearing on Masai's ability to make the team better year after year as my enjoyment of some good basketball.

You ask what's that got to do with anything and then suggest that some completely unrelated things have something to do with the future of this team. You do not have to make any decision. Nor do I. Nor does Bryan, thank the sweet blue heavens. Masai does. If you want to offer reasons why that might be a bad thing then fire away. I will wait with great anticipation.
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:34 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I enjoy games as a fan. I have zero to do with anything else. Colangelo effed up. Not by putting together a team that could bring enjoyment for a year, but in not being able to move forward from there, a few bad breaks and all. That has as much bearing on Masai's ability to make the team better year after year as my enjoyment of some good basketball.

You ask what's that got to do with anything and then suggest that some completely unrelated things have something to do with the future of this team. You do not have to make any decision. Nor do I. Nor does Bryan, thank the sweet blue heavens. Masai does. If you want to offer reasons why that might be a bad thing then fire away. I will wait with great anticipation.
I agree for the most part, I am strong supporter of the team tank, but I hate when people try to make it seem that there's only one way to build a team. (and both sides are guilty)
I believe that trying to get a high pick is the better way, but claiming that it's the only way and everything else is destined to fail is ridiculous. Same as claiming that winning culture is the only way to the promised land. There are so many variables, that we can't predict (nobody can), but we have to ask ourselves if we trust the man in charge to make right decisions when the time comes.
Masai is cleaning the mess that was left by BC. He is making trades to create capspace and adding (looking to add) draft picks/young talent. Eventually that will get us that star who we can build around. 2014 draft is when Jesus walks on water, but it's not the end of the world. There will be many more drafts and those future picks will pay off. If we are going to go and fight for playoffs I will be fine with it, but until we know for sure my tank is strong and ready
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Old 12-29-2013, 01:12 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Tanking was possible after we traded Gay. Immediately after. Then we went 7-3. SEVEN AND THREE. We beat LAL, Phi, Chi, Dal, OKC, NKY x 2 and lost to SAS x 2 and CHA by 2. Five wins on the road. 13-15. 13-15 is through the HARDEST part of the schedule (except the last 2 games). 54 games left.

Lets assume for the tank crowd we tank now and trade Lowry tomorrow. Lets also assume we make trades to make us the 4th worse. The knicks sit at .300 win percentage and thats 4th worse and a nice round number. 54 wins x .300 is 16 wins. That puts us at 29 wins for the year. Last year that would put us 7-9th tied at 29 with 2 others depedning on how the ball rolls. Last year there were not teams trying to race to the bottom as much as this year so for every trade we make you can expect at least a few teams try to match. Being 4th wose for the rest of the year puts us at a final winning percentage of .353 or currently 8th last. Not 1st, not 3rd, 8th. 8th like where we always end up.

Now if your the GM of this team after a 7-3 run, with most of those on the road and some against very difficult teams, would you trade Lowry tomorrow? That's not sane unless it was a great deal. And a great deal means a young useful player back which only make us not lose as fast. Lets say we lose the next 4 and win 1 which we are supposed to. Would any GM make a decision based on those? Not likely he would wait until the January schedule which after that is INCREDIBLY soft in comparison. Each 2 wins after that drops our draft place 1 place to probabaly 9th, 10th or 11th.

So with every single win, the idea of tank become more and more preposterous. so if you are going to respond to this logic, answer first if you would trade Lowry after this run.

Most people as MU would wait until they see January play out without a stellar offer for an expiring player in Lowry.

IF we do somehow manage to trade Lowry TOMORRROW does it make us 4th worst? No. It doesn't make us as that bad. Maybe 6th worst being optimistic (or pesimistic?)? But that's still more wins dropping us a couple more draft places. We would likley have to trade 2 or Lowry, Amir and DD and get almost no useful players back to tank that bad. And do we get nothing useful back? Not likely but lets assume we do.

So for the tank crowd still out there... if everything went PERFECT we might finish 8th last, mayeb slightly worse. And since we probabaly would also have to trade 2 players it would take longer and maybe 10th worse. Thats NO Wiggins, Parker and no franchise player (without being stupid lucky but who would blow up their team for that with a SANE mind).

The 7-3 run killed the tank and any reasonable chances at a top 5 pick. and January is just going to finish killing it off, whether we stay .700, .500 or even .400. It doesn't matter what side you started on, or where you are now, its dead. If we traded Lowry right after Gay, we may have been still be able to talk about tanking. We didn't. So, its over, its dead. Don't care how much anyone wants it, it ain't going to happen anymore.

We could still trade Lowry for future picks and players. And Amir or DD. But those players are pretty young too. And it would probabaly make our future brighter if would could grab 2 more good unprotected 1st round picks in the next 3 years. But trying to lose this year for a top 5 pick in this years draft is pretty much not happening no matter what we try to do if it wasn't already done.

I was on board for the tank at one point... now I just think its too late and this...

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