Picking the East All-Star reserves - Page 2
Old 01-24-2014, 03:36 AM   #21 (permalink)
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East All-Star Reserves Picks | NBA.com posted it in multiple threads
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:15 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by woodchuck View Post
Guards: Lowry, Wall
Frontline: Hibbert, Millsap, Noah
Wild cards: Drummond, Bosh

Injury replacements if necessary: 1. Al Jefferson. 2. Luol Deng. 3. Afflalo
Coaches aren't going to put in 5 bigs as reserves. 3 or 4 max.

Last edited by just4_raps; 01-24-2014 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:42 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Coaches aren't going to put in 5 bigs as reserves. 3 or 4 max.
I'm not a coaches mind reader, but that's who deserve to make it, IMO. And if Brook Lopez + Al Horford didn't get injured, then they would be around the top of that list as well.

A very weak year as far as guards.
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I can't see how Drummond makes it. And Noah has not had a great year. I can think of a couple guards that are more deserving than those two.
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:44 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
Tom Haberstroh, who is now my favourite write on espn after hollinger left, picks his all star reserves, and kyle gets the nod:



also, demar and amir mentioned among the also-rans:



his other picks are wall, noah, afflalo, hibbert, Bosh and milsap.

I'd definitely take drummond, jj or demar over afflalo, but otherwise no major complaints with his list. I also love he doesn't love irving (he says he wouldn't pick him as an all star at all), most overrated player in the league imo.
JJ over Afflalo? Definitely? I don't that's definite at all. And if it came down to those two, I don't see how coaches would vote JJ over Afflalo.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:13 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I think everyone would agree that LaMarcus Aldridge should have been a West front court starter over both Griffin and Love. Also Kobe should be no were near the All-Star game so I'm adding in an extra guard and one of them can take his place. Wade should not be a starter and i personally fell the last All-Star stop should have come down to him or Lowry with Wall being plugged in with the starters. Anyway these are the guys that I think should fill out the reserve spots for both sides.

East

Wall (Should be in Wade's starting spot)
DD
Afflalo or Lowry
(Should have been Wade or Lowry, both DD and Afflalo deserve to have guaranteed All-Star spots)

Jefferson
Millsap
Deng
Drummond or Noah (Leaning more towards Drummond)

West

Paul
Lillard (I think he should have been a starter over Kobe)
Harden
Lawson or Ellis (Leaning more towards Lawson)

Cousins
Davis
Howard
Lee or Randolph (Leaning more towards Lee)
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:29 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I can't see how Drummond makes it. And Noah has not had a great year. I can think of a couple guards that are more deserving than those two.
I think Noah is having a great year. His FG% is down, probably that's what you mean. But that's normal without a point guard. Noah ends up creating a couple shots for himself in every game, and that's not a great idea.

That aside, he's anchoring the second best defense in the league. He's playing a bigger role than ever in the Bulls offense. He's top 2 or top 3 in every main statistical category for that team. If Hinrich misses a couple more games, he's even going to be the no.1 Bull in assists for the year. That's all quite ridiculous when you think about it. Noah means to the current Bulls what Durant means to the current OKC, and the Bulls are tied for no.4 in the East. IMO, Noah is a lock for the All Star game.

I would actually have him and Hibbert starting instead of Kyrie and Wade, if that was possible. IMO, the only East guards that have any case that their seasons are comparable to Noah's are Lowry and Wall.

As for wild card spots, all candidates are a bit underwhelming for one reason or another. I could see a case for Al Jefferson or Deng over Drummond, but it's really like arguing which car is better, the black one or the red one, when they are both missing an engine. All options are flawed, I don't think there's a clear cut case that someone deserves it more than him.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:34 AM   #28 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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Originally Posted by The Diamond Scorpion View Post
I think everyone would agree that LaMarcus Aldridge should have been a West front court starter over both Griffin and Love. Also Kobe should be no were near the All-Star game so I'm adding in an extra guard and one of them can take his place. Wade should not be a starter and i personally fell the last All-Star stop should have come down to him or Lowry with Wall being plugged in with the starters. Anyway these are the guys that I think should fill out the reserve spots for both sides.

East

Wall (Should be in Wade's starting spot)
DD
Afflalo or Lowry
(Should have been Wade or Lowry, both DD and Afflalo deserve to have guaranteed All-Star spots)

Jefferson
Millsap
Deng
Drummond or Noah (Leaning more towards Drummond)

West

Paul
Lillard (I think he should have been a starter over Kobe)
Harden
Lawson or Ellis (Leaning more towards Lawson)

Cousins
Davis
Howard
Lee or Randolph (Leaning more towards Lee)
Drummond???


So Hibbert sits this one out?
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:15 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Where all the Derozan haters? Having some humble pie?
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:25 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Where all the Derozan haters? Having some humble pie?
Not in the least. DD needs to be moved now while his value is high.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:33 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Not in the least. DD needs to be moved now while his value is high.
What do you suggest we do to bring in a someone to replace him? No free agent of his caliber is going to come here. DeRozan wants to be here, and he continues to improve. I do not see why we would ship him out? Once Demar improves his 4th quarter play he will be elite IMO. I believe he is the best player we have had since Vince.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:49 AM   #32 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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What do you suggest we do to bring in a someone to replace him? No free agent of his caliber is going to come here. DeRozan wants to be here, and he continues to improve. I do not see why we would ship him out? Once Demar improves his 4th quarter play he will be elite IMO. I believe he is the best player we have had since Vince.
His caliber?
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:49 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Where all the Derozan haters? Having some humble pie?
Who hates Demar Derozan?
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:52 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Who hates Demar Derozan?
Monta Ellis
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:53 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Where all the Derozan haters? Having some humble pie?
They're patiently waiting for the Raptor's next loss or Derozan's next sub-42%shooting night.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:56 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DuCa00795 View Post
What do you suggest we do to bring in a someone to replace him? No free agent of his caliber is going to come here. DeRozan wants to be here, and he continues to improve. I do not see why we would ship him out? Once Demar improves his 4th quarter play he will be elite IMO. I believe he is the best player we have had since Vince.
Yeah, what Jeff said. His calibre? You mean an inefficient poor defender? I bet every one of those in the league would jump at the chance for us to pay them 9.5M per year. Not hard to replace him at all.

Of course, I don't want a player of DD's calibre to replace him. I want a better player to replace him. That's the whole point.

And if you think DD is better than Bosh was, you're insane and nothing I can say here will have any impact.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:56 AM   #37 (permalink)
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They're patiently waiting for the Raptor's next loss or Derozan's next sub-42%shooting night.
Won't be long then.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:09 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Yeah, what Jeff said. His calibre? You mean an inefficient poor defender? I bet every one of those in the league would jump at the chance for us to pay them 9.5M per year. Not hard to replace him at all.

Of course, I don't want a player of DD's calibre to replace him. I want a better player to replace him. That's the whole point.

And if you think DD is better than Bosh was, you're insane and nothing I can say here will have any impact.
If you can find me a player right now who is better then Demar, wants to be in Toronto, and will take the same pay as Demar, I am all ears. But until then there's no reason to trade him or get rid of him if we have nothing to replace him with. Yes he is inefficient at times, but at time he is also bailing the team out when no one can get it going.

Bosh was good in Toronto because of circumstances, those circumstances being he was the only one we gave the ball too. Now we have players like Lowry, Salmons and on and off Ross who can sometime fill it up and Demar's still putting up numbers.. You can see the significant drop in Bosh's productivity when he went to be the second or third option (what he should be).

Demar is still improving, we see it every game. You guys complain about VC walking, then you want to ship off a guy who actually likes playing for Toronto and might actually stick around most of his career.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:17 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Chuck loves Toronto


Kenny "16/7 won't get Lowry into the all-star game"

Kenny "it's not about the numbers"





Last edited by jeffb; 01-24-2014 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:08 PM   #40 (permalink)
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If you can find me a player right now who is better then Demar, wants to be in Toronto, and will take the same pay as Demar, I am all ears. But until then there's no reason to trade him or get rid of him if we have nothing to replace him with. Yes he is inefficient at times, but at time he is also bailing the team out when no one can get it going.

Bosh was good in Toronto because of circumstances, those circumstances being he was the only one we gave the ball too. Now we have players like Lowry, Salmons and on and off Ross who can sometime fill it up and Demar's still putting up numbers.. You can see the significant drop in Bosh's productivity when he went to be the second or third option (what he should be).

Demar is still improving, we see it every game. You guys complain about VC walking, then you want to ship off a guy who actually likes playing for Toronto and might actually stick around most of his career.
We complain about VC walking because VC was great. Couldn't care less if a player likes TO if he's not a winning piece, which I don't believe DD is. DD seems like a great guy, a hard worker, and a mediocre basketball player. I wish him all the best, and wish he would get traded while his value is high.

I can't speak to what players want to be in TO, but I would expect almost all of them if they are as overpaid as DD is. As for guys who could produce just as well for the same cost?

PER is usually a decent indicator of league value (and it actually rewards volume shooting, so it is by far DD's most generous metric). There are currently 13 SF's/SG's who are between 17 and 20 PER with over 200 minutes played. DD is at 17.7 PER.

Of that group, DD has one of the highest usage rates, but it is comparable to about half the group (at 24 USG% and higher). He has the second lowest TS%. He's 9th in WS/48. So he is probably pretty comparable to all these players. He's also known for his poor defense, but we'll leave that aside and say that this is his control group.

The group, their PER, and their salary:

Wesley Matthews, 17.6, $6.9M
Kawhi Leonard, 17.5, Rookie scale (disregard)
J.J. Redick, 18.0, $6.3M
James Johnson, 19.1, $0.7M
Kevin Martin, 17.0, $6.5M
Luol Deng, 17.4, $14.3M
Jeremy Evans, 17.4, Rookie scale (disregard)
DeMar DeRozan, 17.7, $9.5M
Arron Afflalo, 17.7, $7.8M
Michael Beasley, 17.0, $1.0M
Rudy Gay, 18.0, $17.9M
Gordon Hayward, 17.4, Rookie scale (disregard)
Tyreke Evans, 17.7, $10.3M

So, 13 guys. He compares well with this group, and makes less than only Rudy Gay (hilariously overpaid), Tyreke Evans (very but not hilariously overpaid), and Luol Deng (all-world defender, far better shooter, better in WS/48).

The rest are either rookie scale guys, reclamation projects (proving it just isn't that hard to get DD's kind of production), or the guys who are actually in his price bracket.

6.9M. 6.3M. 6.5M. 7.8M. And DD's modest 9.5M. Of that group he has the lowest (by far) TS%. Matthews and Afflalo are known defenders. DD ekes out Afflalo for second lowest WS/48. And makes 2-3M more than any of them.

You really think these guys wouldn't be enthusiastic about TO as well if they were being paid 3M over market value?
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