Perspective on the Raps going forward
Old 05-15-2011, 09:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Just my two cents for the day.

So we've always had talks that Toronto is not a free agent town, and in the past I may agree with you. However, it seems things are slowly changing in that aspect and it's mostly due to the recent direction Colangelo has done to build on the future and make solid draft picks. DD and ED both shown they have the drive and determination to be big game players in this league and it bodes well for the Raptors going forward. It really is a must that we re-sign Colangelo.

Triano should be kept as the head coach. Barring injuries, this team would've done a lot better than it has this past season. There were times we had the minimum number of players allowed on a roster go out and compete and beat some of the upper echelon teams of this league and I for one, don't think those wins were outliers. This team has heart and believes it can win and compete which it did for most notes. I believe it begins with Triano and people shouldn't judge him on his coaching based on the record last year.

We definitely need to address the AB situation. He's either got to move back to the PF position which I'm not crazy about since that'll mean he's taking time away from ED, be traded, or come off the bench as 6th man. I don't really want the first and third options happening so I'd say we trade AB.

I really enjoy Sonny's game and thought it was really unfortunate when he went down due to injuries last year. He was playing well and would love to see him back off the bench. However, only if the price is right.

If we have a chance, I think we should definitely look to move Bayless if we draft a PG. On a team full of young players, you need a veteran influence and Jose brings just that. I'm not sure why his shooting was so poor last season but it really helps when you have a PG that can pick and pop or throw a crisp pass. If we draft a PG (Irving, Walker, etc) I would start Jose for the first bit till the rook gets more time to adjust to the NBA level of play, then hand over the reigns.

Reggie Evans is one of those players you would love to have on your team and hate to play against. With that said, keep him for vet min (nothing more). I have a small feeling in my gut he will be content with staying here for just that.

One of the things Raptors management needs to do is make sure JJ comes back with a NBA ready jump shot. Judging by his workhard attitude (See JJ quote about Raptors not needing a 3) my guess is he'll start at the 3 next year for the Raps.

The NBA nowadays is a league purely driven on the following things in my opinion:
1) A PG who can run the show
2) A defensive big in the middle (usually the C position but once in a while you have a gem like Ibaka)
3) A player at the 2 or 3 who can create their own shot with consisitency
4) Decent perimeter shooting

The Raps are not far off but not close either. I think in 2-3 years is when we can really start competing. This is one of the key steps in our rebuilding because any contract that is issued foolishly by BC could cripple the Raptors for many years to come. But when it comes down to it, there's nobody else I rather have in my corner, than BC.

Again, just my 2 cents. Feel free to comment.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Toronto will continue to be a lackluster destination for FAs. Or at least for those free agents with substance, because ( and I am repeating my self here) there is an almost 95 % chance we aren't going to make the playoffs in the next three years. The Atlantic has become one of the hotly contested conferences in the league. We offer nothing but money because of the position BC has put us in by over valuing assets such as Bargs & Josie, which has put the team at a stand still. We are virtually pinned down. Our development is purely base on youth and under valued role player s like JJ. So it is going to be a long road.

Because of this it really isn't to essential that we keep BC, because he has tied his own hands. There isn't much he can do or any one else for that matter.

This off season presents some pretty great opportunities to up grade our coaching staff. You say this team believes it can compete, which I agree with, but I do believe Traino has hindered this team with a lack of preparation and his inability to instill execution and efficiency has nothing to injuries. He has even at 100% made terrible rotations and has left out key assets out of the game plan ie. Klieza.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Bargs is not a over valued asset, he is gettin paid 10 mil a year which IMO is not that bad what so ever, he is not a fit on this team and needs a change of destination, but to stay signing Bargs to a 5 year 10 million dollar contract is over valuing him then you have no idea what your talking about. We can all hate on Bargs which i find myself doing alot but to say he is not worth his contract is dumb. he is still a 20 ppg player and would be a good fit with lots of teams around the league with a desirable contract, he is just not a fit for toronto.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Toronto will continue to be a lackluster destination for FAs. Or at least for those free agents with substance, because ( and I am repeating my self here) there is an almost 95 % chance we aren't going to make the playoffs in the next three years. The Atlantic has become one of the hotly contested conferences in the league. We offer nothing but money because of the position BC has put us in by over valuing assets such as Bargs & Josie, which has put the team at a stand still. We are virtually pinned down. Our development is purely base on youth and under valued role player s like JJ. So it is going to be a long road.

Because of this it really isn't to essential that we keep BC, because he has tied his own hands. There isn't much he can do or any one else for that matter.

This off season presents some pretty great opportunities to up grade our coaching staff. You say this team believes it can compete, which I agree with, but I do believe Traino has hindered this team with a lack of preparation and his inability to instill execution and efficiency has nothing to injuries. He has even at 100% made terrible rotations and has left out key assets out of the game plan ie. Klieza.
3yrs? Yeah right! I'd be willing to bet quite a bit of money that they'll at least challenge next season for the playoffs and make the playoffs the season after that.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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We are definitely making the playoffs next year. Everyone on this team wants to make the playoffs and will do whatever it takes. I predict a minimum 40 wins for this team next year.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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We are definitely making the playoffs next year. Everyone on this team wants to make the playoffs and will do whatever it takes. I predict a minimum 40 wins for this team next year.
40 wins might not be good enough for the playoffs next year.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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We are definitely making the playoffs next year. Everyone on this team wants to make the playoffs and will do whatever it takes. I predict a minimum 40 wins for this team next year.
40 is probably a stretch. But we can't make any predictions ultimately until the end of July after the draft, FA and when the Lockout begins
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Old 05-15-2011, 01:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Bargs is not a over valued asset, he is gettin paid 10 mil a year which IMO is not that bad what so ever, he is not a fit on this team and needs a change of destination, but to stay signing Bargs to a 5 year 10 million dollar contract is over valuing him then you have no idea what your talking about. We can all hate on Bargs which i find myself doing alot but to say he is not worth his contract is dumb. he is still a 20 ppg player and would be a good fit with lots of teams around the league with a desirable contract, he is just not a fit for toronto.
Your missing my point. 10 million is great for us to be paying Andrea, But as trade asset he is over valued. Because he is not worth the 10 million in assets we would get back ( I am making the assumption that our GM would be trading up for talent not just ditching a contract.) If you can give me one team that would be better off Bargs at their 4 or 5 let me know.

And Jeffb, How much is quite a bit of money? I would give you the off season to reconsider but I don't you are taking in to consideration how much salary has been shed by Eastern conference fence sitters. How Phil Jackson is already being rumored to take over the Knicks, if not this year the next. We are realistically going to lose 70% of our conference games. Not to mention the Raptors are running out a roster , who starting line up =/- is well below -1700 on the season.
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Old 05-15-2011, 02:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Scully, while I see what you're trying to say, I'm afraid you are pretty much out to lunch with the use of the words "over value".

The simple fact is this. The guys running the Raptors are 100X more connected, and 100x more qualified to assess value to a player than any of us. Value is not something, in any league that you can measure on a fixed scale. The scale slides.

We face a very real, and very tangible issue in Canada, which is, NBA free agents simply don't want to be here. People might think this isn't the case, however I'm pretty certain it is, as many players openly say it. This being the case, where is you value scale?

Is a guard like Jose valuable?
Is a Center Like Bargnani Valuable?
deMar??

These guys may not impress on the big list when compared to all other players in the league, but, when compared to all other players ready and willing to trade in their Cargo shorts for Kamik boots, they start to look a little more"valuable", meaning, you get get good quality, for the money, because to get a slightly better player, you are paying MAX.

Fuck, we almost paid Bosh the MAX, for 7 years!!!!!!!!!

As for Your Bargnani question.... at 10 mil. Bargs is a fabulous fit on any contending team. don't think for a moment he isn't.
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Old 05-15-2011, 02:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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i like the drive and attitudes of all our young players and everything, but to suggest that we will be a 40 win roster with essentially the same core of players is just too much to ask imo....ya i expect big improvements from demar, eddy d, and johnson, but i think their is only so much room on a team for everyone to drastically improve at once, their is just not enough ball or time on court for all these aspiring youngsters to step their game up at once, especially without a solid leader (calderon isn't imo) or veteran scorer to take the pressure off them....

young teams throughout the history of the league have shown it takes time to become good, look at teams like sacremento for instance....ya they have a good young core, but they showed that their inexperience and lack of veteran leadership resulted in such a bad record....especially considering i think alot of people expected them to make a considerable jump up the standings (with the rise of evans, drafting of cousins, and improvements of casspi all expected to provide a boost), just as some of you are expecting raps to do so next season...

fact is it takes some time, in every sport even....too many factors and things that all need to be working perfectly for essentially the same core of team to double their win total in just one season (avoiding injuries, sudden improvements in consistency and maturity, etc).....

in other words, if the raps get 40 wins next season, itll be because of the combination of our draft pick and a solid free agent signing or two and/or trade (s)
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Gnarl, you almost mirror my mind!
I would definitely keep Evans first thing! You can always trade him later, if we find a big who'll play as big, and he becomes superfluous, though I don't see it happening.
I would encourage Sonny to work further in the summer and re-sign him if he's shown progress.
Keep BC, but maybe upgrade Triano. In the words of an obligatory Ricky Lake guest: What makes you think that JT won't do what he did to Bosh and then Bargnani, to our new stars i.e. DD or ED? e.i. Not holding them accountable, thus sending a confusing message to the team. And it doesn't seem as if Triano can pump the players up, to carry on the energy for longer stretches. He's very supportive though, maybe he can switch back to being an assistant.
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Old 05-16-2011, 01:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Scully, while I see what you're trying to say, I'm afraid you are pretty much out to lunch with the use of the words "over value".

The simple fact is this. The guys running the Raptors are 100X more connected, and 100x more qualified to assess value to a player than any of us. Value is not something, in any league that you can measure on a fixed scale. The scale slides.
We face a very real, and very tangible issue in Canada, which is, NBA free agents simply don't want to be here. People might think this isn't the case, however I'm pretty certain it is, as many players openly say it. This being the case, where is you value scale?

Is a guard like Jose valuable?
Is a Center Like Bargnani Valuable?
deMar??

These guys may not impress on the big list when compared to all other players in the league, but, when compared to all other players ready and willing to trade in their Cargo shorts for Kamik boots, they start to look a little more"valuable", meaning, you get get good quality, for the money, because to get a slightly better player, you are paying MAX.

Fuck, we almost paid Bosh the MAX, for 7 years!!!!!!!!!

As for Your Bargnani question.... at 10 mil. Bargs is a fabulous fit on any contending team. don't think for a moment he isn't.
and what information is this exactly?

You consider a players production, value to your team, feelings for playing on the team, and thus decide a fair dollar value. There is no hidden recipe really. Also, I disagree with you on that players not wanting to come here just because it's Canada. If we drafted Dwayne Wade in 2003 and prepared a flexible cap situation for 2010, we could have potentially landed both Lebron and Bosh just like the Miami Heat. They are individuals who TRULY want to win and sacrificed franchise roles in order to do so. In their case, the city alone, would not be the deciding factor.
In summary, most superstars want to be in a position to win. The city definitely plays a role, but to say that NBA free agents "simply do not want to be here" is completely false.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:26 AM   #13 (permalink)
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and what information is this exactly?

You consider a players production, value to your team, feelings for playing on the team, and thus decide a fair dollar value. There is no hidden recipe really. Also, I disagree with you on that players not wanting to come here just because it's Canada. If we drafted Dwayne Wade in 2003 and prepared a flexible cap situation for 2010, we could have potentially landed both Lebron and Bosh just like the Miami Heat. They are individuals who TRULY want to win and sacrificed franchise roles in order to do so. In their case, the city alone, would not be the deciding factor.
In summary, most superstars want to be in a position to win. The city definitely plays a role, but to say that NBA free agents "simply do not want to be here" is completely false.
If Dwade was drafted by the Raps he'd be playing in Chicago this year, hands down. What made it easier for LBJ and Bosh to take less money was the fact Florida state is tax free, with big time marketing, great coaching, Pat Riley and Florida women. Don't kid yourself, 'superstars' crave attention and they aint gettn none of that in Toronto.

And we should probably clarify, we're talking about superstar free agents not wanting to come here and that's long been proven already. Any other free agent will go where the money is.

Last edited by DocHoliday99; 05-16-2011 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:27 AM   #14 (permalink)
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^ NY wouldn't have been a bad destination either.
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Old 05-16-2011, 11:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Honestly, I think Wade made a mistake with Miami. With how well the Bulls are balanced a line of Rose, Wade, Deng, Gibson, Noah would have dominated for years. Although this Chicago/Miami rivalry will be around for a long time and might have been the best thing marketing wise.

Back to the thread, IMO the only way the Raps will be competitive in the playoffs is building a team much like the Pistons were when they won their last title - no real superstar but complete team play. Problem is for me is that I dont believe Triano is the right coach for that nor does the team have enough core players strong enough personality wise.
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