Our Team numbers so far this season - Page 2
Old 11-17-2012, 06:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Opponents PPG: 100.6 (27th)

Points per game: 96.9 (19th)

Assists per game: 20 (24th)

Rebounds per game: 40.6 (22nd)



If these trends continue we're in for an extremely long season.
what about the 40 wins Jeff???
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The MVP of West Hollywood View Post
We have a defensive coach, but not a defensive roster. Bargnani/Valanciunas is the single worst defensive starting frontline in the league... Sorry Val fans but like most rookies, he sucks defensively right now. And Bargnani is Bargnani. Then Jose and Demar and Ed and Kleiza are all terrible defenders, Ross is a rookie, Anderson is nothing special defensively... other than Amir, Lowry when he's healthy and I guess Dom McGuire, we have crap defensive players.

This roster just flat out sucks without Lowry there. Defensively we have huge liabilities dragging us down and offensively we have weak shooting, no post scorers, and of our 3 most talented players one is injured (Lowry) and the other clearly gave no f*cks this summer (Bargnani). If you look at the schedule until mid December, expect us to get our a** whooped. Honestly looking at the sked we're going to be something like 6-19 or 5-20 after the hard stretch is over. BC sucks

Our Roster was pretty "defensive" last year. Pretty much the same players, so that tells you that they can play a defensive system.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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i wil just say that we have too much new piece, too much injury, and a Bargnani whom seems lost.

but it's just the beginning of the season, i would n't read too much out of those numbers.
let's see whare we will be at the 1/3 of the season, and what they have done (BC and casey) to adress the problem.

you can't not say anything until we have at least our 2 other starter on the floor (lowry and fields)
before all those injury that was close games. after that that was some pretty bad ones (enven if we win agansi indiana).

and i would want a big center (even a young one like mahimmi) rather than a gray whom they don't use anymore. what the point of signing him.
JV can't do it by him self. he is a rookie, and at his psition he will make many mistake against vet center or more experience one.

for now, this team have only one big weapons out there (DD) and we can not depend only on him, especially if nobody open the floor.

let's take five minutes to consider what you say because you are frustrated. this team is less D than last year. yeah, big deal, they didn't score much last year.
let's them find their rythm, the flow of their paces. and maybe what casey try to implement will come as a real system we could like and understand.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yeah, I don't know where the whole "deepest team in years" bs came from, cause that's a straight lie. Our PG depth is the deepest in years, true, but the rest of the roster isn't any deeper than in previous years.

I for one am gonna blame our start to injuries because anytime you lose your best player you're gonna struggle. That's why I don't really care about our current team stats, I'll bet you we'll rise in every category when Lowry returns, he just has that much of an impact on the game, both offense and defense.

So come back Kyle!
Here's the thing about the Lowry injury: It hurts but teams who are actually playoff caliber can fight through it. Our schedule so far is a great example: We've played Indiana twice, Dallas, Minnesota and Philadelphia already. Indiana came into the season with high expectations but Dal, Min, Phi were always looking at low seed playoff team season, which is what BC built this team to do. Indiana is 4-6, Dallas is 5-5, Min is 5-4 despite 3 of their 4 best players getting injured so far, Phi is 5-4. That's what playoff teams do when they lose their best player, they rally together and stay above water. Philly is probably the best comparison since they're obviously a 7th or 8th seed this year. They have wins vs Denver, @ Bos, and vs Uta so far, to go along with taking care of business vs Noh and vs Tor. In reality, IND, PHI, DAL and MIN have good players aside from their injured star. We don't.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:57 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The MVP of West Hollywood View Post
Here's the thing about the Lowry injury: It hurts but teams who are actually playoff caliber can fight through it. Our schedule so far is a great example: We've played Indiana twice, Dallas, Minnesota and Philadelphia already. Indiana came into the season with high expectations but Dal, Min, Phi were always looking at low seed playoff team season, which is what BC built this team to do. Indiana is 4-6, Dallas is 5-5, Min is 5-4 despite 3 of their 4 best players getting injured so far, Phi is 5-4. That's what playoff teams do when they lose their best player, they rally together and stay above water. Philly is probably the best comparison since they're obviously a 7th or 8th seed this year. They have wins vs Denver, @ Bos, and vs Uta so far, to go along with taking care of business vs Noh and vs Tor. In reality, IND, PHI, DAL and MIN have good players aside from their injured star. We don't.
Well luckily, unlike DAL and MIN, we're still in the Eastern conference where you can still make it to the playoffs with less talent. Every year a surprise team grabs the eight spot, think Charlotte or Milwaukee. Teams that don't look that good on paper, have no decent bench or whatever, but somehow pull it off through f.e. good defense. You don't even have to own a winning record here to make it to the postseason. If healthy the Raps really could be that team, I'm convinced they could, call me naive if you will.

I'm sure we'll surprise a lot of teams when we get back to full strength. Sucks Fields will need a lot of time for that to happen...

BTW I think DAL and MIN are 2 of the deepest teams in the league. Our benchplayers wouldn't even make their roster, except for Caldy, he'd look good in MIN. Let's trade him for Derrick Williams!!

Last edited by ZanTheMan; 11-17-2012 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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We look worse because we want to push the ball. That whole philosophy is dumb if you want to focus on defence.

You need to be a half court team to play real good defence.

This whole, we want to be a running team that's a BC philosophy is freaking horrendous.
With clumsy guys like Andrea and Derozan running full speed smack into defenders proves your point.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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what are our #s per 100 possessions? and what is our pace?
This.

A few of us have been trying to get people to understand that defensive rating and offensive rating are THE team stats. They are the ones that matter.

Having said that, I'm sure we're terrible under those stats too. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we're even worse.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:58 PM   #28 (permalink)
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This.

A few of us have been trying to get people to understand that defensive rating and offensive rating are THE team stats. They are the ones that matter.

Having said that, I'm sure we're terrible under those stats too. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we're even worse.
Yep. When I see so few stops, and such high shooting percentages allowed, I don't really need to consult any formulaic accounts. None of our eyes are fooling us. There aren't enough tequila shots available to make it less obvious.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You can not run and play smash mouth defence. Well, you can, but by game 60, you'll be done and be lazy. We need to commit to either being a true running team or a half court team that wants to play defence. Not this hybrid bullshit.
memphis perfected this hybrid system quite well actually, just the pieces took some time to develop. we can't expect this to work out 10 games into a season with new players. casey forewarned that this is going to start ugly.

however i am not defending the inadequacy of our starting mediocre starting roster, BC's faith in Bargnani and this philosophy of trying to stack our big men position so that they can all perform at their best with the limited minutes they play.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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The NBA needs to contract the league; high-level basketball talent is so pyramidal that the bad teams really have almost no way of improving without drafting multiple top 50 players. In a sport where a single top-tier player will be on the court 1/7th of the minutes played for a team that translates to not enough impact players being able to be spread around, and without the creation of a better farm system, it never will. Europe is the best outside of the NBA and even their highest tier of players are role players at best in the NBA. There's a reason the MLB has so much talent and to a lesser extent, the NHL.

Until something like that happens it's always going to be a league of haves and have-nots.

Last edited by Metallikid; 11-17-2012 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:42 AM   #31 (permalink)
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The NBA needs to contract the league; high-level basketball talent is so pyramidal that the bad teams really have almost no way of improving without drafting multiple top 50 players. In a sport where a single top-tier player will be on the court 1/7th of the minutes played for a team that translates to not enough impact players being able to be spread around, and without the creation of a better farm system, it never will. Europe is the best outside of the NBA and even their highest tier of players are role players at best in the NBA. There's a reason the MLB has so much talent and to a lesser extent, the NHL.

Until something like that happens it's always going to be a league of haves and have-nots.
When they watched players sneaking around behind the scenes to form "big three's", I thought for sure the league would address that in the new CBA......for example by allowing a team with current rights to a player to sign him for much more than another team or increasing the length of entry level contracts.

But they didn't. So congratulations to teams like Washington or Cleveland, etc for continuing to struggle and rack up high draft picks. But if any of guys like Wall, Irving, Waiters, etc become superstars it is very likely they will consider themsleves "too big" for their markets and joing one of the few superteams. you can become a farm team and stay at the bottom of the pyramid.

The only saving grace is that Chris Bosh and Lebron taught franchises a lesson by faking, sneaking around and pretending to be making a decision when they knew they were leaving. At the first glimpse of that, trade that ass and protect your franchise.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:37 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Actually, Ross may be our best defender right now, with Lowry out. He is going to be a defensive ace in this league. And soon.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:14 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Lowry is hurt (arguably our best player on both ends right now).

Fields is injured and hasn't been right from Day 1 here.

Bargs has REGRESSED to the point where he's almost useless on the floor.



Any wonder we're struggling?

All that being said, we've only looked "outclassed" twice so far... and that was against 2 teams that were in the Conference Finals last season (OKC & BOS).
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:54 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Keep disregarding it, but we "traded" our best defender from last season!
The scary thing is not all teams take advantage of AB's pick'ur'nose defence, as they work on their stuff and win easily anyway.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:06 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
This.

A few of us have been trying to get people to understand that defensive rating and offensive rating are THE team stats. They are the ones that matter.

Having said that, I'm sure we're terrible under those stats too. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we're even worse.
ORTG: 20th
DRTG: 23rd
ORB%: 21st
DRB%: 8th
TOV%: 3rd
OTOV%: 8th

So, the three primary factors - offensive and defensive efficiency, rebounding, and turnover rates. We are below average in offence, bad (but not terrible) on defence, good at defensive rebounding and poor at offensive rebounding, while being elite in terms of net turnover rate.

The efficiencies are the big ones though, and they will need to improve.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:16 PM   #36 (permalink)
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23rd is pretty terrible. Perhaps not horrendous, but definitely worse than just bad.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:30 PM   #37 (permalink)
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23rd is pretty terrible. Perhaps not horrendous, but definitely worse than just bad.
Pretty terrible? 16th is average. As such, it would make sense to classify 17-20th as below-average, 21-24 as bad, 25-28 as terrible and the last two as "elite."

How many teams in the league have a terrible defence? A third of them?
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:38 PM   #38 (permalink)
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For me, below average is bad.

And about a quarter of the teams have a terrible defense.

If you could show me that they are closer to 16 than they are to 30 I might feel a little differently. They have played some really good stretches. But not a lot of them.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:58 PM   #39 (permalink)
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meh, gab numbers all day, I watch the games....I'm better at that. What I'm seeing so far, is a bad team, from top to bottom. No talent, soft players.

Seems like all the things we need to go right go wronf, all thegambles, lose, all of it. Val is kinda ok, Ross looks Mo Pete like, which sucks, Derozan isnt a satr, Bargnani is fat and lazyier than ever, and Lowry is hurt. Amir if a bench player, Davis is too...like 12 guy on a decent team...the other guys...suck.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:27 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Well, if Derozan was a star in the making, he wouldn't have jumped at the chance to sign an extension that averages $10 mill per. Demar has looked like a solid piece most nights, though.

Bargnani is just....ugh.

If Lowry could stay healthy and Bargnani gave us anything, anything at all, we still definitely have a legit chance at the playoffs. Now, that's not to say the Raps are any good; it's more a testament to how shitty the East is this season. In the context of the shitty East, the Raps could be a middle of the pack team.
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