Is our lack of defense, BC's fault?
Old 12-21-2010, 06:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,765
Representing:
Default Is our lack of defense, BC's fault?

While I wouldn't put the complete blame on Triano, a team does adopt the personality / culture that a Coach/Leader creates. While we really don't have great defensive players (Bargs, etc), it's up to the coach to reward the behaviors they want. It's clear to me that Triano rewards the player that is flowing best in the offense. If he starts benching players for lack of effort and poor defense, trust me our defense will improve. We may not win more games this year given the limited talent, but our defense and effort would improve.
It's up to the Leader to stress whats important by rewarding the corrrect behaviors ... that frankly is Triano's job.
But, I believe the real problem is with BC ... he is clearly an offense first GM. Given Triano works for him ... guess what ... over time, we all try to make our Boss appreciate our work, by aligning to their belief system. If not .. you will get fired over time.

That's why we will never be a great defensive team. BC needs to change first and then Triano / Organization will come along.

Your thoughts ..
Carlito is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 07:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
........

Senior Member
 
MrClutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 2,372
Representing:
Default

triano is at fault for our poor defense but also having a bunch of younger players doesnt help either
MrClutch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 08:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
pensive

feat. Otto Neurath
 
Ligeia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,093
Representing:
Default

No continuity in coaches, no continuity in players, no continuity in strategies. Bunch of young perimeter players backed up by the most foul prone 4 in the league and a bad defensive 5. It's no surprise that this team is still soft defensively.
Ligeia is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 08:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdependent View Post
triano is at fault for our poor defense but also having a bunch of younger players doesnt help either
This
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 08:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
Is The:

Chairman of the Boards
 
gdaytday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,618
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligeia View Post
No continuity in coaches, no continuity in players, no continuity in strategies. Bunch of young perimeter players backed up by the most foul prone 4 in the league and a bad defensive 5. It's no surprise that this team is still soft defensively.
+ infinity.

There is no continuity period. It's tough to "build" a competitive team when your players change every year and your rotations change drastically every game.
gdaytday is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 08:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,510
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdaytday View Post
+ infinity.

There is no continuity period. It's tough to "build" a competitive team when your players change every year and your rotations change drastically every game.
And anyone calling for BC to be gone don't realize continuity in management is just as paramount.

I do believe however, that a single minded defensive player can make a difference. Chandler might have been that guy, or maybe Davis becomes that guy. Both Amir and AB are improving, although maybe not at a pace most would like. The reality of it is, the frontcourt on this team has a good 2 years to grow into a decent defensive unit.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 09:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
the anti BC lol

Senior Member
 
leftcoastbballfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 525
Representing:
Default

Of course BC is the one to blame for assembling a bunch of offense first players......how can Triano be blamed for it? You can have the best defensive schemes in the world but if a player is unable or unwilling to play defense it is not going to be pretty and most of the time will not work.............lets face it we don;t have any frountcourt players that take pride in defending......the one's that try (Dorsey.Wright Davis) are not either tall enough or strong enough to handle the other teams size......how is that Triano's fault?
leftcoastbballfan is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 09:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
far away

Senior Member
 
archie63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Panama City
Posts: 975
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastbballfan View Post
Of course BC is the one to blame for assembling a bunch of offense first players......how can Triano be blamed for it? You can have the best defensive schemes in the world but if a player is unable or unwilling to play defense it is not going to be pretty and most of the time will not work.............lets face it we don;t have any frountcourt players that take pride in defending......the one's that try (Dorsey.Wright Davis) are not either tall enough or strong enough to handle the other teams size......how is that Triano's fault?
Not completely agree. Belinelli last year was considered a very poor defender, this years he's playing great defence (1vs1 and team defence) and this only happened because the coach asked him (and the rest of the team) to do so or go ride the pine. So maybe preaching defence can help by Triano
archie63 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 09:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,510
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastbballfan View Post
Of course BC is the one to blame for assembling a bunch of offense first players......how can Triano be blamed for it? You can have the best defensive schemes in the world but if a player is unable or unwilling to play defense it is not going to be pretty and most of the time will not work.............lets face it we don;t have any frountcourt players that take pride in defending......the one's that try (Dorsey.Wright Davis) are not either tall enough or strong enough to handle the other teams size......how is that Triano's fault?
So many point to the bigs as the problem defensively, but teams bomb threes at will against us... drive the lane repetitively against us..... blow by's are a major part of our defensive strategy...
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 09:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
the anti BC lol

Senior Member
 
leftcoastbballfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 525
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
So many point to the bigs as the problem defensively, but teams bomb threes at will against us... drive the lane repetitively against us..... blow by's are a major part of our defensive strategy...
Thats the thing Carp.......how is it Triano's fault that guys don't move their feet? Defense is all about teamwork......if you miss your assigment someone in turn is supposed to help no? So if Calderpylon gets blown by and someone else steps out and the other guys don't fill the gaps (Bargs is the worst at help defending) you are going to get easy bucket against us.......with no "real" shotblocker to funnel the opposing player to we are going to get many easy buckets against us. IMO i thought Jay had a fantastic defensive game plan set out against the Lakers.....we just got unlucky that they were hitting uncanny shots and we couldn't buy a bucket in a few key stretches.
leftcoastbballfan is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 09:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,510
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastbballfan View Post
Thats the thing Carp.......how is it Triano's fault that guys don't move their feet? Defense is all about teamwork......if you miss your assigment someone in turn is supposed to help no? So if Calderpylon gets blown by and someone else steps out and the other guys don't fill the gaps (Bargs is the worst at help defending) you are going to get easy bucket against us.......with no "real" shotblocker to funnel the opposing player to we are going to get many easy buckets against us. IMO i thought Jay had a fantastic defensive game plan set out against the Lakers.....we just got unlucky that they were hitting uncanny shots and we couldn't buy a bucket in a few key stretches.
I agree, but my concern is there is too much focus on funnelling and not enough on staying in front of your man. This team needs some wings that will actually physically impede the progess of guys driving. You're right... move the feet... but it's not just the bigs.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 09:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
far away

Senior Member
 
archie63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Panama City
Posts: 975
Representing:
Default

The Lakers played essentially their second unit all the time I'm not sure that Triano game plan would have worked against their first unit. So i'm sure Triano have a great defensive plan in his head (generally speaking) only that he can't teach it to his players...or his players can't get it
archie63 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 09:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
Mean Muggin with his son

Swollen Member
 
b55bgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Rock AKA Newfoundland
Posts: 1,377
Representing:
Default

The coaching staff are definitly to blame.
If you dont defend sit thier asses down. Triano i think is too nice of a guy.

Sometimes all it takes is a great defender on the team to lead by example. Who on the Raptors roster can we say is a GREAT defender????
b55bgc is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 09:57 AM   #14 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,510
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by b55bgc View Post
The coaching staff are definitly to blame.
If you dont defend sit thier asses down. Triano i think is too nice of a guy.

Sometimes all it takes is a great defender on the team to lead by example. Who on the Raptors roster can we say is a GREAT defender????
Wright maybe.... Bayless maybe....
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 10:04 AM   #15 (permalink)
the anti BC lol

Senior Member
 
leftcoastbballfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 525
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by b55bgc View Post
The coaching staff are definitly to blame.
If you dont defend sit thier asses down. Triano i think is too nice of a guy.

Sometimes all it takes is a great defender on the team to lead by example. Who on the Raptors roster can we say is a GREAT defender????
You can't have your cake and eat it too!!!!!!!!!!! You say its the coaching staffs fault in your first paragraph and yet in your second one you say we don't have any great defenders? And as far as sitting down guys that arent playing defense the NBA mandates that 5 players must be on the floor at the same time....if they all arent defending......which on occasion the whole team has mailed it in, what are you going to do?
leftcoastbballfan is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 10:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
Mean Muggin with his son

Swollen Member
 
b55bgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Rock AKA Newfoundland
Posts: 1,377
Representing:
Default

Well, on a team with no definitive leader on the court, the Coach should be instilling a defensive mindset. I doubt highly in the past few years with roster changes to this team that every player who comes to toronto is defensively challenged.

When teams are scoring 100-120 points on you every night consistently there is a problem. And the problem is not one thing, its a culture.
b55bgc is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 10:37 AM   #17 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Triano is a horrible communicator and can't seem to teach effectively enough. Just look at last season, this team for most part looked unbelievably lost and a lot of them were veterans. And even this season the team is inconsistent in effort and on D often look lost and sorry but the coach has to take some blame there, if not most of it. This is basically his 3rd season and the lack of progression on defense has to be put on his shoulders.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 01:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
lol

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,221
Representing:
Default

Raptors defense is based on help which equals fail. We need some players that can at least remotely keep people in front of them. And jeez dont gime that offensive players are impossible to stay in front of crap.
gabe91 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 01:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 237
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdependent View Post
triano is at fault for our poor defense but also having a bunch of younger players doesnt help either
What coach can make this team a better defensive team? You have to have the right group and right now, I don't see it. Bargs sucks defensively. DeRozen sucks. Weems sucks. Calderon has been better than the past but he still sucks. Bayless is maybe average at best? Kleiza is ok. Amir plays good defense IMO but gets into foul trouble way too often.

Get a lockdown defender at the perimeter and a legit defensive/rebounding center then Triano would have much more to work with.

Can the job Triano do be better? Maybe, slightly but I'm not putting the blame on him. The players just suck and it's a re-building year and this is something players and coaches must work over the off-season.
Kobe>LeBron is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 01:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe>LeBron View Post
What coach can make this team a better defensive team? You have to have the right group and right now, I don't see it. Bargs sucks defensively. DeRozen sucks. Weems sucks. Calderon has been better than the past but he still sucks. Bayless is maybe average at best? Kleiza is ok. Amir plays good defense IMO but gets into foul trouble way too often.

Get a lockdown defender at the perimeter and a legit defensive/rebounding center then Triano would have much more to work with.

Can the job Triano do be better? Maybe, slightly but I'm not putting the blame on him. The players just suck and it's a re-building year and this is something players and coaches must work over the off-season.
Two teams in two years, same result. They were discussing Ron Wilson this morning on the radio and they were saying something that imo aplied to Triano and the Raptors situation, yeah the talent is lacking but isn't it the coaches job to improve the players, put them in a position to succeed, get a team to show progression, motivate them. At some point you can't just look at the players alone and look at who's coaching them. This team looks lost often out there, same as last season and the season before that under Triano for the most part.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24