The Official RF Trade Proposal Thread - Page 51
Old 05-22-2011, 12:23 PM   #1001 (permalink)
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Interesting, considering this is only Stephen's second season.

Let's look at the previous seasons, when Curry wasn't there, shall we? It's strange actually. When Curry wasn't around, Monta averaged LESS assists. May this be because Curry actually gives someone to pass to rather than taking away his assist numbers? Highly probable.

Your arguments are so flawed I actually feel sorry for you.
In the previous seasons there was another little guy called Baron Davis dominating the ball, and guess what he was the main facilitator for that team while Monta played SG where his role was to score. Say it ain't so.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:25 PM   #1002 (permalink)
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You may be completely correct, but that's not what I'm arguing, so it doesn't really matter.

I'm glad were on the same page about Ellis not being a point guard.
I actually would love Ellis here not for a PG but as our SG. DD plays better as SF (stats according to 82games anyways)
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:28 PM   #1003 (permalink)
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I actually would love Ellis here not for a PG but as our SG. DD plays better as SF (stats according to 82games anyways)
Knight/Bayless
Ellis/Barbosa
DD/JJ
Davis/Amir
?

That team would be fun to watch to say the least. Not sure though about defense. Outside of Knight (who would be a rookie), and Davis our D would be somewhat poor. Now if we could add Chandler at Center as a FA signing we'd be cooking with gas.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:29 PM   #1004 (permalink)
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In the previous seasons there was another little guy called Baron Davis dominating the ball, and guess what he was the main facilitator for that team while Monta played SG where his role was to score. Say it ain't so.
Okay, it aint so.

Although it was only 25 games, in 08-09 Ellis still only managed to average 3.7 assists per game as the main facilitator. That's pretty poor, especially when you couple that with the fact he played nearly 36 mpg, and averaged only one more assist then he did turnover.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:29 PM   #1005 (permalink)
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i'm not sure DD at SF can be good for the future.

DD is a little undersized at sf position, and he will be frustrated to be in the shadow of ellis in this team, especially if Bargs is gone.
if Bargs is gone, DD will be our first option at offense. and if we bring ellis, DD would be a 2nd or 3rd if bayless run.

we need DD to take care next year of the sg spot, and concentrate on this position, grown at defense, and he will be fine.

bayless/DD as our backcourt can be great if they continue to show the same energy than in the end of the season.
i think the big thing would be to bring here a big center, and upgrade the 3 spot as well.

Quote:
trade:
tor give Bargs
Minny give milicic + 2# pick

draft williams at 2# and bismack at 5#


bayless/calderon
DD/barbosa
Williams/JJ/kleiza
amir/davis/evans
darko/biyumbo/alabi
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:31 PM   #1006 (permalink)
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I actually would love Ellis here not for a PG but as our SG. DD plays better as SF (stats according to 82games anyways)
Agreed, although I don't think it's possible without giving up one of Ed/DeRozan and our pick.

As much as Golden State seems to be shopping him, they won't give him away easily.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:31 PM   #1007 (permalink)
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i'm not sure DD at SF can be good for the future.

DD is a little undersized at sf position, and he will be frustrated to be in the shadow of ellis in this team, especially if Bargs is gone.
if Bargs is gone, DD will be our first option at offense. and if we bring ellis, DD would be a 2nd or 3rd if bayless run.

we need DD to take care next year of the sg spot, and concentrate on this position, grown at defense, and he will be fine.

bayless/DD as our backcourt can be great if they continue to show the same energy than in the end of the season.
i think the big thing would be to bring here a big center, and upgrade the 3 spot as well.
No way Minny would do that trade. Not in a million years.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:33 PM   #1008 (permalink)
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Okay, it aint so.

Although it was only 25 games, in 08-09 Ellis still only managed to average 3.7 assists per game as the main facilitator. That's pretty poor, especially when you couple that with the fact he played nearly 36 mpg, and averaged only one more assist then he did turnover.
True but that team had been gutted. Let's face it other then Maggette they didn't have scoring and he was asked to be the scorer. Again, not saying he's not a SG....he is a SG. But in GS his role is as a scorer no matter what position he's played. That team has been disfunctional for years with no structure and no discipline. To me you have to look at what role he's asked to play.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:34 PM   #1009 (permalink)
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If we draft Bismack Biyombo (who gets compared to Ben Wallace), we would need a primary scoring PG. If we trade Bargnani which might happen then we would be missing alot of offense, because right now our offense runs through Bargnani. It would be too much to ask for DeRozan to score everything, even if we had Steve Nash at the point it wouldn't get us anywhere. The main need for this team is a primary scorer, and for that player to run the point isn't far-fetched, I'd like to see it happen.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:36 PM   #1010 (permalink)
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i'm not sure DD at SF can be good for the future.

DD is a little undersized at sf position, and he will be frustrated to be in the shadow of ellis in this team, especially if Bargs is gone.
if Bargs is gone, DD will be our first option at offense. and if we bring ellis, DD would be a 2nd or 3rd if bayless run.

we need DD to take care next year of the sg spot, and concentrate on this position, grown at defense, and he will be fine.

bayless/DD as our backcourt can be great if they continue to show the same energy than in the end of the season.
i think the big thing would be to bring here a big center, and upgrade the 3 spot as well.
Darko plays well for minny and they seem loyal to each other. Couldnt see Bargs for Darko and #2. Maybe Bargs and next year unprotected for Darko and this years #2

And at 6-7 DD isn't undersized height wise, maybe a little more weight but honestly DD's numbers are better when he plays the SF
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:38 PM   #1011 (permalink)
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i'm not sure DD at SF can be good for the future.

DD is a little undersized at sf position, and he will be frustrated to be in the shadow of ellis in this team, especially if Bargs is gone.
if Bargs is gone, DD will be our first option at offense. and if we bring ellis, DD would be a 2nd or 3rd if bayless run.

we need DD to take care next year of the sg spot, and concentrate on this position, grown at defense, and he will be fine.

bayless/DD as our backcourt can be great if they continue to show the same energy than in the end of the season.
i think the big thing would be to bring here a big center, and upgrade the 3 spot as well.
The only way that deal happens is if it's:

Bargs/#5 for Milicic/#2.......and even then it probably doesn't happen.
Mind you, Bargs/Knight for Milicic/Williams isn't that bad but we might have to throw in something else to sweeten the pot.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:40 PM   #1012 (permalink)
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If we draft Bismack Biyombo (who gets compared to Ben Wallace), we would need a primary scoring PG. If we trade Bargnani which might happen then we would be missing alot of offense, because right now our offense runs through Bargnani. It would be too much to ask for DeRozan to score everything, even if we had Steve Nash at the point it wouldn't get us anywhere. The main need for this team is a primary scorer, and for that player to run the point isn't far-fetched, I'd like to see it happen.
Fair enough.

Although, I think looking for a Small Forward with 20ppg potential would benefit us to a greater extent.

Next years crop of Small Forwards is outstanding to say the least. Miller, McAdoo, Barnes, Gilchrist (my personal favourite), Nash. It really is the crop of Small Forwards.

Personally, I support the pick of Val or Bismack. Good young big men, are very scarse in today's NBA, and I believe Bismack can be a defensive force. I also believe that Jonas can be a very good two-way center. I look at his free-throw shooting, and I think that the potential for a very sound mid-range game is there. Couple that with his height and length, and what appears to be a body that will fill out very nicely and I think you've got a recipe for a Marc Gasol like center.

I understand what you're saying though. You're saying that Ellis wouldn't be a point guard per se, but rather would play there in order to give us scoring. My question would be, why wouldn't we just play him at the two where, in my opinion, he'd be much more effective, and would still give us that scoring punch that we'd need.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:49 PM   #1013 (permalink)
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Fair enough.

Although, I think looking for a Small Forward with 20ppg potential would benefit us to a greater extent.

Next years crop of Small Forwards is outstanding to say the least. Miller, McAdoo, Barnes, Gilchrist (my personal favourite), Nash. It really is the crop of Small Forwards.

Personally, I support the pick of Val or Bismack. Good young big men, are very scarse in today's NBA, and I believe Bismack can be a defensive force. I also believe that Jonas can be a very good two-way center. I look at his free-throw shooting, and I think that the potential for a very sound mid-range game is there. Couple that with his height and length, and what appears to be a body that will fill out very nicely and I think you've got a recipe for a Marc Gasol like center.

I understand what you're saying though. You're saying that Ellis wouldn't be a point guard per se, but rather would play there in order to give us scoring. My question would be, why wouldn't we just play him at the two where, in my opinion, he'd be much more effective, and would still give us that scoring punch that we'd need.
If we play him at the two then the question is who will play the point? If Ellis is going to dominate the ball then I really don't know who would play the point. You can pretty much factor out Bayless because it'll be the same situation in Golden State. If we keep Jose then how would it work? Jose always wants the ball too so I'm not exactly sure how it'll work out. If there is a way for Ellis to dominate the ball and play the 2 spot then it wouldn't be too bad, the question is how would it work.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:50 PM   #1014 (permalink)
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i understand so :

tor gets pekovic + speights + 2# 2011
minny gets iguy
Phily gets Bargs + weems (s&t 3M)

miny gets a sg, with some experience
phyli gets a big men scorer and a bench sg.
we get 2 young big men + 2# pick

bayless/calderon
DD/barbosa
*Williams*/JJ/Kleiza
amir/davis/evans
speights/pekovic/*biyumbo*/alabi
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:56 PM   #1015 (permalink)
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If we play him at the two then the question is who will play the point? If Ellis is going to dominate the ball then I really don't know who would play the point. You can pretty much factor out Bayless because it'll be the same situation in Golden State. If we keep Jose then how would it work? Jose always wants the ball too so I'm not exactly sure how it'll work out. If there is a way for Ellis to dominate the ball and play the 2 spot then it wouldn't be too bad, the question is how would it work.
Good question, although I wouldn't have Jose there, as that would make our perimeter defense beyond atrocious.

It would have to be someone who can shoot the three, defend well and distribute well. Maybe someone like Brandon Knight, although his distributing skills are suspect.

That's the problem with Ellis. He's not a point guard, but it's hard to find one that would maximize his talents. If our interior defense was good enough, we could maybe get away with having Jose there, although his 3-point shooting has declined over the years.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:59 PM   #1016 (permalink)
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Why not Bargs/Filler/2012 protected #1-6 for Ellis/2011 #11
If nbadraft is close (and they usually are then Bismack should be there)
Draft #5 Walker and #11 Bismack

Walker/Bayless/JC
Ellis/Barbosa
DD/JJ/Wright
Davis/Amir/Evans
Bismack/Alabi/Ajinca

Perimeter and interior defense and scoring

would free up JC for a trade

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Old 05-22-2011, 01:05 PM   #1017 (permalink)
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Why not Bargs/Filler/2012 protected #1-6 for Ellis/2011 #11
If nbadraft is close (and they usually are then Bismack should be there)
Draft #5 Walker and #11 Bismack

Walker/Bayless/JC
Ellis/Barbosa
DD/JJ/Wright
Davis/Amir/Evans
Bismack/Alabi/Ajinca

Perimeter and interior defense and scoring

would free up JC for a trade
I don't mind the trade or anything, but where is the perimeter defense coming from?
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:07 PM   #1018 (permalink)
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I don't mind the trade or anything, but where is the perimeter defense coming from?
I agree. If you want perimeter defense, you draft Knight over walker if at all possible, but even then Ellis/DD isn't great in that area as well.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:10 PM   #1019 (permalink)
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I don't mind the trade or anything, but where is the perimeter defense coming from?
Walker and Barbosa. A trade of JC for a another defensive perimeter player would be great. Although thinking you're probably right, I over reached there for perimeter D. The defensive presence in the middle would be crucial.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:13 PM   #1020 (permalink)
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I agree. If you want perimeter defense, you draft Knight over walker if at all possible, but even then Ellis/DD isn't great in that area as well.
Exactly.

I here Utah is interested in Walker, so we may not even be able to pick him, which I'm fine with as I prefer Knight anyways.

On a side note, what do you think of trading our pick to Sacramento for there pick and maybe next years top-5 protected or something.

They're desperate for a point guard, and both will more than likely be gone by seven.

Personally, I like the idea of drafting a big this year, so I think we could definetly get a big, and get something of value by trading down.

Just a thought.
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