The Official RF Trade Proposal Thread - Page 270
Old 12-19-2013, 07:50 AM   #5381 (permalink)
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This is the first time I've read you say something completely ridiculous. The Warriors lose the best player(Lee), and best prospect(Barnes) in the deal, plus a very solid backup center who's still young(Ezeli) for a shooting guard they don't need and who doesn't fit with their roster(he'd be a backup), a rental who wont re-sign in Lowry, and spare parts.

Who starts at PF for the Warriors?

That deal is absolutely disgustingly bad for GSW.
Lee is awful. Defensively he's Bargnani-esque. He's addition by subtraction for that team, especially considering the terribe contract he is on. If you are a fan of Lee, I might as well not reply, considering we will never see eye to eye on his value.

DeMar can play SF on that team easily enough - we all know DeMar is best suited as a bench scorer and is most effective with shooters around him - imagine him in a 3 man wing rotation with Iggy and Klay, with Lowry or Curry at the point (plus bigs like Patterson who can hit a shot). He'd fit great there, and they'd have their backcourt and SF spot locked up solid for years.

And Lowry may not re-sign, but they get a talented backup for a major run this season, and then can concern themselves with Lowry or his replacement this summer (with the increased flexibility this deal gets them).
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Old 12-19-2013, 01:07 PM   #5382 (permalink)
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DeMar, Novak, Patterson and Lowry (22.6M) for David Lee, Harrison Barnes, Nemanja Nedovic and Festus Ezeli (19M).

Signs us up for Lee's bad contract, gives GSW Lowry and DeMar to bolster their guard and wing spots, Patterson to help with their front court depth (and he fits as a shooter), and Novak could be dangerous on that team. Also frees up long term money with Patterson and Lowry expiring. They also stay under the tax threshold in spite of taking on money here.

Gets us three players on rookie contracts, including Barnes, and offsets some of the 3rd year salary of Lee's by removing Novak. Frees up a little salary space this year, sacrifices future space.

I think that's a deal everyone wins.
I see your logic, but think you're undervaluing Barnes and Lee a bit, at least with respect to how they fit in GSW. Barnes actually fits better than Demar would there and has a much better contract situation.... so take that out and it's basically Lee for Lowry and Patterson.... just such a loss of talented size up front for them. Not sure why they'd risk breaking down a good thing for such a gamble that really doesn't present all that much upside beyond salary relief.
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Old 12-19-2013, 01:51 PM   #5383 (permalink)
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Any trade where we get a guy named Fetus is okay with me.
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:32 PM   #5384 (permalink)
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Lee is awful. Defensively he's Bargnani-esque. He's addition by subtraction for that team, especially considering the terribe contract he is on. If you are a fan of Lee, I might as well not reply, considering we will never see eye to eye on his value.
I'm not a fan of Lee, but he's still the best player in this deal currently, and he brings balance to GSW's lineup, plus him and Steph are a very good pick and roll combination. If they went ahead with your trade and had a Patterson/Speights PF combo, they'd be the worst in the league at that position, and for what? To MAYBE improve their depth? Having both Lee and Barnes gives GSW more options, because unlike Demar, Barnes has shown that he can play smallball 4 vs some teams and be very successful with it. There's no way Lee is addition by subtraction with this team, because GSW wouldnt be nearly as effective with literally no inside scoring option for a long period of time, in this case, the rest of the season. Teams could just load up on their shooters, and HOPE guys like Patterson and Speights get the high quantity of shots that would come off teams trapping pick and rolls. Whereas if that happened in a scenario with Lee, Lee is one of the better passers and decision makers at the PF position in an advantage situation, so he's capable of either shooting the midrange shot, driving it, or kicking it for an open shot. That's a big part of their offence they'd be losing.

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DeMar can play SF on that team easily enough - we all know DeMar is best suited as a bench scorer and is most effective with shooters around him - imagine him in a 3 man wing rotation with Iggy and Klay, with Lowry or Curry at the point (plus bigs like Patterson who can hit a shot). He'd fit great there, and they'd have their backcourt and SF spot locked up solid for years.
Again, they already have their 3 man wing rotation locked up for years, and Barnes is on a rookie scale contract. Many people, like myself, believe Barnes will be a better player than Demar sooner rather than later, so why give up a better prospect on a better contract, plus the best player in the deal, for an expiring contract, and spare parts? Its not like they'd have a much bettter chance of winning the title after this trade, and I think most would argue it'd be a much worse chance.

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And Lowry may not re-sign, but they get a talented backup for a major run this season, and then can concern themselves with Lowry or his replacement this summer (with the increased flexibility this deal gets them).
Seeing as Lowry would be Stephs backup, would you expect them to play a small lineup with those 2 a bunch? And if so, which of the 3 swingmen(Iggy/Klay/Droz) sits due to this lineup change? It's just not a good fit.

If you proposed this to Warriors fans they'd think you were joking. It's an awful deal for them. You cant expect to go any further in the playoffs than the year before with Patterson and Speights locking down your PF spot. That's not debatable IMO. Plus I really don't see the parts fitting anyway.

The Warriors 5 man lineup of Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Lee/Bogut is statistically the highest rated offensive lineup in the league right now. It's a small sample size since it was only about 10-12 games I believe, but when you watch them play they're so much better with that lineup with Iggy in there than if he was out. Why wouldnt GSW just stick with what's working, and look to update their bench without blowing up their entire team at the deadline?
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Old 12-19-2013, 03:45 PM   #5385 (permalink)
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Gsw get Lowry /// Novak
Toronto get Barnes + Douglas /// TPE


GSW get a solid backup pg and stretch 4/3. two player whom can shoot the 3.

we get 5M in two tpe and a younf SF + a backup pg.

Vasquez/douglas
DD/Ross
Barnes/Salmons/Fields
AJ/Patterson
JV/TH

we can hope for a top 10 pick this draft !

Last edited by Bankiz; 12-19-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 12-19-2013, 03:52 PM   #5386 (permalink)
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Sure, they can keep him if they want. They are doing very well this year with him. It's my opinion that when the playoffs hit he killed them with his porous defense.

So. What if you replace DeMar in the deal with Amir? Or just add in Amir straight up for a TPE? Thoughts?
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Old 12-19-2013, 03:58 PM   #5387 (permalink)
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What would they think about Amir and TR for Barnes and Speights?
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:02 PM   #5388 (permalink)
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Personally I wouldn't like it for the Raps.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:11 PM   #5389 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bankiz View Post
Gsw get Lowry /// Novak
Toronto get Barnes + Douglas /// TPE


GSW get a solid backup pg and stretch 4/3. two player whom can shoot the 3.

we get 5M in two tpe and a younf SF + a backup pg.

Vasquez/douglas
DD/Ross
Barnes/Salmons/Fields
AJ/Patterson
JV/TH

we can hope for a top 10 pick this draft !
Dude were not getting barnes for Lowry...
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:30 PM   #5390 (permalink)
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Demar, Amir, Lowry and NY 1st for Henson, Giannis, Butler and Knight.... let Milwaukee chase the dream!
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:33 PM   #5391 (permalink)
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Demar, Amir, Lowry and NY 1st for Henson, Giannis, Butler and Knight.... let Milwaukee chase the dream!
Ain't going to happen. Milwaukee is leading the east tank-wise and I've heard that Milwaukee fans have made a tank petition to get Barnes or something along the lines of that.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:34 PM   #5392 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bankiz View Post
Gsw get Lowry /// Novak
Toronto get Barnes + Douglas /// TPE


GSW get a solid backup pg and stretch 4/3. two player whom can shoot the 3.

we get 5M in two tpe and a younf SF + a backup pg.

Vasquez/douglas
DD/Ross
Barnes/Salmons/Fields
AJ/Patterson
JV/TH

we can hope for a top 10 pick this draft !
no bias or realism at all
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:35 PM   #5393 (permalink)
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Sure, they can keep him if they want. They are doing very well this year with him. It's my opinion that when the playoffs hit he killed them with his porous defense.
And your opinion is wrong, because David Lee played i only 6 games in the playoffs due to injury, and only averaged 11 mpg:

David Lee Stats - Golden State Warriors - ESPN


Quote:
So. What if you replace DeMar in the deal with Amir? Or just add in Amir straight up for a TPE? Thoughts?
I thought TPEs could only be traded in a deal with no other players attached?

It's a bit more enticing for GSW if they could do a deal solely revolving around Amir for Lee, but I just dont see the reasoning for them to include Barnes in a deal unless they're getting a top tier NBA bigman back in return who would help catapult them into the elite teams of the league. You just dont give up 2nd year studs like Barnes who are on rookie scale deals in return for players who are expiring, or players who wont be playing big, meaningful minutes for you(Demar isn't going to play over Klay/Iggy when it matters, and they cant go small with him in the lineup with those 3 playing together anyway).

Look at it if you were a GSW fan and you'll see how bad your proposal is. It not only makes them worse this season, it makes them worse for the future since, in the end, theyd essentially be giving up Barnes and Lee for Derozan, when most GSW fans wouldnt even give up Barnes for Derozan right now 1 for 1.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:38 PM   #5394 (permalink)
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I don't know why, you guys think that GSW would trade Barnes, but If they did I would give up anyone other than JV
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:42 PM   #5395 (permalink)
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I don't know why, you guys think that GSW would trade Barnes, but If they did I would give up anyone other than JV and our 2014 first rounder
Fixed
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:49 PM   #5396 (permalink)
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Fixed
My tank is not in the business to give away picks.
But you are 100% correct!
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:14 PM   #5397 (permalink)
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And your opinion is wrong, because David Lee played i only 6 games in the playoffs due to injury, and only averaged 11 mpg:

David Lee Stats - Golden State Warriors - ESPN
Yeah, and in that time, he absolutely killed the team. They were terrible when he was on the court. Certainly at least in part due to injury, but I just don't think his game fits in the playoffs. Again, I'm fine with you disagreeing with me. Who knows how GS's front office feels - if they agree with you, obviously this deal doesn't happen.


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I thought TPEs could only be traded in a deal with no other players attached?

It's a bit more enticing for GSW if they could do a deal solely revolving around Amir for Lee, but I just dont see the reasoning for them to include Barnes in a deal unless they're getting a top tier NBA bigman back in return who would help catapult them into the elite teams of the league. You just dont give up 2nd year studs like Barnes who are on rookie scale deals in return for players who are expiring, or players who wont be playing big, meaningful minutes for you(Demar isn't going to play over Klay/Iggy when it matters, and they cant go small with him in the lineup with those 3 playing together anyway).

Look at it if you were a GSW fan and you'll see how bad your proposal is. It not only makes them worse this season, it makes them worse for the future since, in the end, theyd essentially be giving up Barnes and Lee for Derozan, when most GSW fans wouldnt even give up Barnes for Derozan right now 1 for 1.
Yeah, it's a separate deal - Amir for TPE.

I think it's an absolute no brainer for GSW if they are getting Amir too, whether you like Lee's game or not. I would hesitate to move DeMar and Amir and Lowry (our only real tradeable assets of value) for a single get, especially one that comes with the anchor of a contract that Lee has.

I've got a bunch of other quibbles, but they aren't really important (they could totally go small, DeMar would still play 36+ minutes backing up both wing spots, they can re-sign Lowry if they want, from what I've seen of Warriors' fans they aren't huge fans of Lee or his contract). Those don't really matter though - it was a fantasy proposal that would never happen. Just thought it would be good for both teams. If I was a fan of the Warriors, I'd be looking to capitalize on Curry and Thompson, not wait for several rookies to pan out. I would be all over a deal that got me Amir DeMar and Lowry to go with the solid team they already have - and would certainly consider it even without Amir.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:21 PM   #5398 (permalink)
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Yeah, and in that time, he absolutely killed the team. They were terrible when he was on the court. Certainly at least in part due to injury, but I just don't think his game fits in the playoffs. Again, I'm fine with you disagreeing with me. Who knows how GS's front office feels - if they agree with you, obviously this deal doesn't happen.




Yeah, it's a separate deal - Amir for TPE.

I think it's an absolute no brainer for GSW if they are getting Amir too, whether you like Lee's game or not. I would hesitate to move DeMar and Amir and Lowry (our only real tradeable assets of value) for a single get, especially one that comes with the anchor of a contract that Lee has.

I've got a bunch of other quibbles, but they aren't really important (they could totally go small, DeMar would still play 36+ minutes backing up both wing spots, they can re-sign Lowry if they want, from what I've seen of Warriors' fans they aren't huge fans of Lee or his contract). Those don't really matter though - it was a fantasy proposal that would never happen. Just thought it would be good for both teams. If I was a fan of the Warriors, I'd be looking to capitalize on Curry and Thompson, not wait for several rookies to pan out. I would be all over a deal that got me Amir DeMar and Lowry to go with the solid team they already have - and would certainly consider it even without Amir.
I think I'd consider adding TH to that deal if possible.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:27 PM   #5399 (permalink)
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Yeah, and in that time, he absolutely killed the team. They were terrible when he was on the court. Certainly at least in part due to injury, but I just don't think his game fits in the playoffs. Again, I'm fine with you disagreeing with me. Who knows how GS's front office feels - if they agree with you, obviously this deal doesn't happen.




Yeah, it's a separate deal - Amir for TPE.

I think it's an absolute no brainer for GSW if they are getting Amir too, whether you like Lee's game or not. I would hesitate to move DeMar and Amir and Lowry (our only real tradeable assets of value) for a single get, especially one that comes with the anchor of a contract that Lee has.

I've got a bunch of other quibbles, but they aren't really important (they could totally go small, DeMar would still play 36+ minutes backing up both wing spots, they can re-sign Lowry if they want, from what I've seen of Warriors' fans they aren't huge fans of Lee or his contract). Those don't really matter though - it was a fantasy proposal that would never happen. Just thought it would be good for both teams. If I was a fan of the Warriors, I'd be looking to capitalize on Curry and Thompson, not wait for several rookies to pan out. I would be all over a deal that got me Amir DeMar and Lowry to go with the solid team they already have - and would certainly consider it even without Amir.
I would be against Amir for a TPE, because we'd essentially be giving him away as a good percentage of TPEs are never used, and Amirs value is too good for that.

In terms of Lee, I dont think GSW is going to be able to trade him, and if they do, theyd surely be looking to receive a starting caliber PF in return as theyre in win now mode, something Patterson/Speights cant do in terms of producing good numbers in the starting 5. Your trade wouldnt get them closer to winning because of their massive hole at the 4, plus Demar would take touches away from Curry/Thompson, and less touches for Iggy to create, which would surely lower their efficiency. I just dont think Demar would be a good fit in that offence because he generally holds the ball too long and isnt a good enough ball handler to touch the ball as much as he needs to when you already have Steph and Iggy.

And again, I think in 2-3 years, Barnes will be considered the better player anyway. If I had to choose between the two I'd take Barnes without hesitation.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:06 PM   #5400 (permalink)
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GSW get Amir + Lowry + Novak
Chalotte get Lee
Toronto get MKG + Gordon + Douglas + 1st portland 2014 (CHA)


GSW upgrade the roster

GV/Douglas/Buycks
DD/TR/Gordon/Stone
MKG/Salmons/Fields
TH/Patterson/Daye
JV/Hayes
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