The Official RF Trade Proposal Thread - Page 254
Old 11-21-2013, 02:18 AM   #5061 (permalink)
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Knicks Would this deal be possible?

To NYK: Lin, Parsons, Asik

To HOU: Melo, Udrih


Not sure how Lin & Asik's salaries work since they only make $5M this year and then $15M next year..... would they get averaged out in a deal like this? If so, I'd pursue it hard if I were NYK... because HOU just might bite at the idea of having their very own "Big 3".
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:28 AM   #5062 (permalink)
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Interesting trade.

I wouldn't do it in a million years if I was houston but that's coz I don't think a team can win a champ with melo, which is controversial.

Parsons is the quintissential glue guy, if he manages to improve any more he'll be an amazing player.

Can't see harden and anthony working, at all. Both need the ball. Harden's not as bad but when he's not playing, lin looks a different player.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:24 AM   #5063 (permalink)
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I'd much rather pair Harden with Parsons, who does a bit of everything on the best contract in the league (under a million dollars annually) than another high usage max player in Melo. Besides, Houston already boasts one the most potent offenses in the league, which Melo would just complicate.

With Melo's free agency on the horizon, the Knicks won't get a whole lot of value in return, but I can't see them dealing for a guy they refused to retain and center that will inevitably become a back up for Chandler. Makes them a little deeper I suppose, but without Melo, a laughingstock offensively.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:26 AM   #5064 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
To NYK: Lin, Parsons, Asik

To HOU: Melo, Udrih


Not sure how Lin & Asik's salaries work since they only make $5M this year and then $15M next year..... would they get averaged out in a deal like this? If so, I'd pursue it hard if I were NYK... because HOU just might bite at the idea of having their very own "Big 3".
Lin and Asik count as ~8.4 mil each for trade purposes.
I don't know how much Udrih is making and I'm too lazy to check but I suspect this is a legal trade.

However, I wouldn't do it for the Knicks. And I think the Knicks wouldn't do it.
This doesn't make the Knicks contenders. What's the next step? They'd still have no flexibility for 2 years. And they wouldn't have much flexibility in two years, if they want to keep these guys.
And what do they do when Tyson gets back? Trade Asik again?
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:54 AM   #5065 (permalink)
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If Wiggins doesn't develop his perimeter game then him and MKG would be a terrible fit. What NBA team gets no shooting from both their 2 and 3 spots?

Personally, I think Wiggins will turn out fine in the long run, but right now there are some signs that his shooting might not come around as fast as some might like.

If he shoots around 30% from the college 3 and his FT% drops back into the high 60s like he shot in high school, then there are definitely scouts that will say that he'll never be a great shooter.

Also, remember that he's from a basketball family and has been playing his whole life, so you would expect his offensive skill set to be better developed at this point.

I'm off topic, though.

The point of the post is that there are scenarios in which the Wiggins pick is available in a trade, and an asset like JV is exactly what it would take to make a deal.

Consider that the highest ranked center in the 2014 draft is Joel Embiid. Embiid looks pretty good, but if JV has a good year then I can see some teams thinking that JV will have the better career.

Embiid is currently projected in the 5-10 range. JV is worth, in this draft, somewhere around there, though possibly a little higher if he's a known quantity.

So, if a team goes into the draft looking for a big, and Randal is off the board, then JV suddenly seems like a damn good option.
Right now Wiggins looks to be in a different tier of assets compared to Jonas or MKG. So I think it's not realistic.

You don't trade what looks like a likely superstar for a 'maybe all star' because he fits better next to your other 'maybe all star'.

As far as shooting, it kind of shows how big of a talent this is. Wiggins has a solid shooting touch, he's better than LeBron at that age on the perimeter. I don't see a good reason to think that he won't improve. Yet, his other gifts are so much bigger that we end up using words like "no shooting."
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:38 PM   #5066 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodchuck View Post
Lin and Asik count as ~8.4 mil each for trade purposes.
I don't know how much Udrih is making and I'm too lazy to check but I suspect this is a legal trade.

However, I wouldn't do it for the Knicks. And I think the Knicks wouldn't do it.
This doesn't make the Knicks contenders. What's the next step? They'd still have no flexibility for 2 years. And they wouldn't have much flexibility in two years, if they want to keep these guys.
And what do they do when Tyson gets back? Trade Asik again?
I think the Knicks would be insane to turn that deal down. They're far from being contenders now and they'd get 3 starters in return. Why not play Asik with Chandler and let Bargs come of the bench?
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:24 AM   #5067 (permalink)
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Houston doesn't need Melo, as said before, their offense is already ramped up. If they could, they'd be wise to push as hard as they could for Rondo.... Asik, Monty, Lin and take back every last bad contract the C's have! Won't get it done, but try!

Imagine Rondo in the playoffs again with two healthy arms? Sick!

Terrence Jones really starting to look great in Houston.... PF situation clearing up beautifully. They won't even need Ryan Anderson. TJones is starting to make noise.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:58 AM   #5068 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
I think the Knicks would be insane to turn that deal down. They're far from being contenders now and they'd get 3 starters in return. Why not play Asik with Chandler and let Bargs come of the bench?
I wouldn't trade Melo for a bunch of role players unless it pushes the team into the Miami/Indiana tier. Otherwise, I'd start thinking about the 2015 free agency, and I'd rather go there with a superstar already on the team + max cap space.

As for Asik and Tyson together, that won't work, they both score only around the rim and both are paint protectors.

Also, finstock has a point about Lin -- I was just thinking about basketball, but who knows if they want him in principle.
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:40 PM   #5069 (permalink)
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Boston get Gordon + Gray + 1st nyk 2016
NOP get Gay + 2nd rd okc 2014
TOr get Green + Olynyk + Humphries + Roberts


we cut Humphries and Buycks

Lowry/Roberts/augustine
DD/Ross/Stone
Green/Novak/Fields
AJ/Olynyk/Acy/Daye
Jv/TH
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Old 11-23-2013, 04:53 AM   #5070 (permalink)
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Larry is injured and upset about not getting playing time, despite the large contract he just received, so maybe Milwaukee might consider trading him for assets as they continue to tank, and we presumably continue with our current core. If so, maybe we can snag him with a package involving Fields + Filler + Raptors 2014 First Rounder. We would likely have to give up either Amir or Hansbrough, but we'd be receiving an elite interior defender who possesses a solid short range jumper. I think Larry can slot in right next to JV at the PF and be a great fit (better than Monroe).
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:36 AM   #5071 (permalink)
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Demar Derozan and Landry Fields for Josh Smith
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:39 AM   #5072 (permalink)
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Demar Derozan and Landry Fields for Josh Smith
can we ask for Kentavious back too?
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Old 11-23-2013, 04:19 PM   #5073 (permalink)
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Demar Derozan and Landry Fields for Josh Smith
I don't like this for either team. Toronto would now have even less flexibility and this still doesn't take them anywhere, they still look like a borderline playoff team at best. Detroit would still be a chuck city, but now with less defense.

By the way, I remember actually hoping for a Millsap or Josh Smith for DeRozan sign and trade at the end of last season. But that was before Colangelo was fired. I was resigned to perennial mediocrity back then. How times change.
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Old 11-23-2013, 04:42 PM   #5074 (permalink)
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Tank Hard!

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

Raptors: Granger, Solomon Hill + whatever picks we can get
Pacers: Gay, Asik, Lowry
Rockets: George Hill, Mahinmi

yes I know it's ugly!
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Old 11-23-2013, 05:33 PM   #5075 (permalink)
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Tank Hard!

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

Raptors: Granger, Solomon Hill + whatever picks we can get
Pacers: Gay, Asik, Lowry
Rockets: George Hill, Mahinmi

yes I know it's ugly!
Well, that's not a bad way to destroy the Pacers haha.

They'd have to get rid of Roy Hibbert, Lance Stephenson and Lowry just to get under tax next year.

But at least they get to shake up the best starting lineup in the league for no reason, and they get a backup center who doesn't want to be a backup!
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:17 PM   #5076 (permalink)
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Well, that's not a bad way to destroy the Pacers haha.

They'd have to get rid of Roy Hibbert, Lance Stephenson and Lowry just to get under tax next year.

But at least they get to shake up the best starting lineup in the league for no reason, and they get a backup center who doesn't want to be a backup!
or.. They become by far the best team in the league win a championship. And then in the summer trade Asik, Gay
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:16 PM   #5077 (permalink)
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or.. They become by far the best team in the league win a championship. And then in the summer trade Asik, Gay
Or they don't. There's chemistry to consider. They get an unhappy Asik, they break up their lineup that now has a lot of experience together and works well.

They wouldn't want Lowry for Hill. They wouldn't want Asik because that's just a chemistry catastrophe. So it has to be about Gay then. But look at what they have. Their wing rotation is George, Lance, Orlando Johnson and sometimes Copeland, all of them are playing well. Gay is a bigger name, but if you want to give him more than 25 minutes a game, you have to take minutes away from their starters. There's no good reason to do that, not when their wing rotation is one of the best in the league. That's even assuming that Granger never gets back, which would probably be a false assumption.

If they get better, it's marginal, but it could also easily backfire.

And then the plan is to make more trades next year? What's wrong with just keeping it together and competing for the foreseeable future..

But in the end, the basketball side of it is moot. The deal gets them over tax this year, and significantly over tax next year. Years ago, the Pacers refused to add Charles Barkley because he was to expensive for them. This summer Larry Bird was talking about how they will be forced to make OKC/Harden type decisions in 2014 because of tax considerations. So they just aren't going to go over tax for a questionable upgrade.

Now if you take Lowry out of it, they can stay under tax this year. But then a terrible deal becomes an even more terrible deal. And then next year they still have tax problems. It's easy to say "trade Gay's 19 mil expiring for pure cap space" but there's no guarantee that it will be possible. Few teams have that kind of cap space in the summer. Fewer if any will want to spend it on a Gay rental. And what if he's injured? Then they just trade Hibbert or West?
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:42 PM   #5078 (permalink)
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Or they don't. There's chemistry to consider. They get an unhappy Asik, they break up their lineup that now has a lot of experience together and works well.

They wouldn't want Lowry for Hill. They wouldn't want Asik because that's just a chemistry catastrophe. So it has to be about Gay then. But look at what they have. Their wing rotation is George, Lance, Orlando Johnson and sometimes Copeland, all of them are playing well. Gay is a bigger name, but if you want to give him more than 25 minutes a game, you have to take minutes away from their starters. There's no good reason to do that, not when their wing rotation is one of the best in the league. That's even assuming that Granger never gets back, which would probably be a false assumption.

If they get better, it's marginal, but it could also easily backfire.

And then the plan is to make more trades next year? What's wrong with just keeping it together and competing for the foreseeable future..

But in the end, the basketball side of it is moot. The deal gets them over tax this year, and significantly over tax next year. Years ago, the Pacers refused to add Charles Barkley because he was to expensive for them. This summer Larry Bird was talking about how they will be forced to make OKC/Harden type decisions in 2014 because of tax considerations. So they just aren't going to go over tax for a questionable upgrade.

Now if you take Lowry out of it, they can stay under tax this year. But then a terrible deal becomes an even more terrible deal. And then next year they still have tax problems. It's easy to say "trade Gay's 19 mil expiring for pure cap space" but there's no guarantee that it will be possible. Few teams have that kind of cap space in the summer. Fewer if any will want to spend it on a Gay rental. And what if he's injured? Then they just trade Hibbert or West?

They are pretty much trading Hill for Lowry Asik and Gay...
They can turn around and flip them to other teams for even more depth/asets (yes including Gay!). Whichever way you look at it they win and by alot..
And that's assuming Asik wouldn't be happy winning a championship. for all we know he just doesn't want to play with Howard and it's not about coming of the bench.
they would loose Hill who is maybe little bit better than Lowry.
The only team that would loose is Raptors
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:12 PM   #5079 (permalink)
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There are about 29 teams in the league where Gay would make more sense.

A top contender gives up a good starter and picks to get a bunch of pieces they don't really need, and then they start shuffling and shuffling them around in multiple trades at trade deadline until they get under tax and they can start working as a team again. Maybe when they finish doing it they are as good as they are right now. Maybe next summer some team absorbs Gay's 19 mil for free. Maybe Asik just hates Howard, even though his agent pretty much came out and said that Asik wants a proper role.

It's ok to talk about this on a forum but this is an actual job for Larry Bird and actual money for Herb Simmon, and there are way too many long shot maybies in this.
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:37 PM   #5080 (permalink)
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There are about 29 teams in the league where Gay would make more sense.

A top contender gives up a good starter and picks to get a bunch of pieces they don't really need, and then they start shuffling and shuffling them around in multiple trades at trade deadline until they get under tax and they can start working as a team again. Maybe when they finish doing it they are as good as they are right now. Maybe next summer some team absorbs Gay's 19 mil for free. Maybe Asik just hates Howard, even though his agent pretty much came out and said that Asik wants a proper role.

It's ok to talk about this on a forum but this is an actual job for Larry Bird and actual money for Herb Simmon, and there are way too many long shot maybies in this.
You are always the boss on this thread,

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