Official: Raps sign DeRozan to a 4 year extension - Page 8
Old 11-02-2012, 01:28 AM   #141 (permalink)
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You don't pay for what might/possibly/hopefully happens, you pay for production in the nba.
Yea and how did that work out for the Raptors with Hedo Turkoglu(who was coming off productive seasons prior to signing that expensive deal)?

Realistically,you pay for a combination of both if anything but you never know. Portland extended Brandon Roy based of production despite all the health concerns and it backfired. Is it their fault? All we can do is hope DeRozan develops into a very good cornerstone player for this franchise. Most would say he's half the baller Harden is,he got pretty much half the money Harden got so its a reasonable deal to buy time to see how he works out long term.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:38 AM   #142 (permalink)
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Yea and how did that work out for the Raptors with Hedo Turkoglu(who was coming off productive seasons prior to signing that expensive deal)?

Realistically,you pay for a combination of both if anything but you never know. Portland extended Brandon Roy based of production despite all the health concerns and it backfired. Is it their fault? All we can do is hope DeRozan develops into a very good cornerstone player for this franchise. Most would say he's half the baller Harden is,he got pretty much half the money Harden got so its a reasonable deal to buy time to see how he works out long term.
Hedo - flashy move. Didn't do due diligence considering he didn't have to put much effort into d as he played with a phenomenal player in DH12. also thrived with a non-traditional pg.

Roy - they may have known about his injuries, however, they also paid him based on what he showed on the court, being a top 5, arguably top 3 sg in the league.

DD's been given everything to him on a silver platter since coming here. He does 2 things on the court. He may get better, hopefully he does. However, he's just still quite raw. DD is a third or less the player Harden is.

Also, look at how Morey signed Lowry. He based his contract off his production when playing. I think that was a smart move.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:50 AM   #143 (permalink)
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Hedo - flashy move. Didn't do due diligence considering he didn't have to put much effort into d as he played with a phenomenal player in DH12. also thrived with a non-traditional pg.

Roy - they may have known about his injuries, however, they also paid him based on what he showed on the court, being a top 5, arguably top 3 sg in the league.

DD's been given everything to him on a silver platter since coming here. He does 2 things on the court. He may get better, hopefully he does. However, he's just still quite raw. DD is a third or less the player Harden is.

Also, look at how Morey signed Lowry. He based his contract off his production when playing. I think that was a smart move.
Yea you have some valid points,especially with Lowry and Roy. Maybe they should've waited like Doug Smith suggested in his column yesterday
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:51 AM   #144 (permalink)
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Yea you have some valid points,especially with Lowry and Roy. Maybe they should've waited like Doug Smith suggested in his column yesterday
Thanks. Also, not maybe, they should've waited.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:57 AM   #145 (permalink)
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DD's been given everything to him on a silver platter since coming here. He does 2 things on the court.
I'm admittedly not a member of the Derozan bandwagon, but I don't even know what two things are he does well?
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:04 AM   #146 (permalink)
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I'm admittedly not a member of the Derozan bandwagon, but I don't even know what two things are he does well?
Getting to the rim to take free throws/Getting to the line and an average low-mid range shot.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:07 AM   #147 (permalink)
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I think derozan is worth about 8mill as of right now and don't think it's any great stretch that he can add 2-4mill to that value.

people talk as if averaging 16-18pts in this league is easy! They look at decent bench scorers and think "he could do what derozan does." Make them a starter and a 1st or 2nd option and their performance would alter considerably.

look, i know DD is a frustrating player, i'm not a fanboy, he needs to make improvements in a few areas to justify this contract, i'm just surprised by the vitriolic reaction to it. And i guess i'm more optimistic than most that he can improve.

people seemed pretty optimistic during the off-season that he could improve as a player, people seemed pretty happy with his performances in pre-season games and said he looked like he had improved. Those opinions shouldn't be changed by the disappointing size of the contract.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:58 AM   #148 (permalink)
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From DeMar DeRozan’s Toronto Raptors contract and the two risks | NBA | Sports | National Post

"If you want to remove all emotion from the situation, the decision about whether to extend a player’s contract before he hits restricted free agency comes down to weighing two calculated risks against each other.

1. If you do not sign the player, you risk that the player has a wonderful year and his value on the open market becomes higher than it would have been previously. Additionally, another team can structure an offer sheet in such a way that it becomes prohibitive, or at least difficult, to match and retain the player. Essentially, the player will be more expensive in the future than he is right now. Hence, you extend his contract now.

2. If you do sign the player, trying to avoid the first scenario, you risk the player never living up to the deal. Sure, the open market can be a volatile place — unpredictable and subject to the whims of a bold, maybe reckless general manager or two — but none of that matters if you have overvalued the player in the first place. "
Glad you took all the emotion out of it. That is a particularly passionless shade of red.

I say, let's see if he's truly been overvalued. I don't think this was done to avoid paying him increased value should he happen to show great improvement. I think it was just making an honest assessment and establishing a good business relationship. It just isn't the end of the world at this point. If he shows no improvement then we can all rant and rave about overvaluing him, in any shade of red or orange or chartreuse. But since he has improved every year, and remains committed to improving, it's not that bad of a bet to think he will continue to improve.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:59 AM   #149 (permalink)
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Glad you took all the emotion out of it. That is a particularly passionless shade of red.

I say, let's see if he's truly been overvalued. I don't think this was done to avoid paying him increased value should he happen to show great improvement. I think it was just making an honest assessment and establishing a good business relationship. It just isn't the end of the world at this point. If he shows no improvement then we can all rant and rave about overvaluing him, in any shade of red or orange or chartreuse. But since he has improved every year, and remains committed to improving, it's not that bad of a bet to think he will continue to improve.
RF didn't let me increase the font size so I used colour. I like DD but the improvements he has made are quite minor. If he were to explode, then fine, BC faces a choice of matching a contract or making him walk. However, he is being paid on what hopefully/might, etc happens. Adding about 40 million to the team's salary is not a factor at all.

Last season was the first where the raps were better with him on the court than off it. Raps scored 6.6 more points/100 possessions with him on the court than off it and gave up 3.5 more points/100 possessions with him on the court than off it. His win shares/48 minutes have never been above 0.70 (the league average is 0.100). His 3 pt % although improved is still subpar.

The hope is that with Lowry as another top 3 option on offense and with JonasV on the team, that DD's usage should go down and hopefully his efficiency goes up.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:10 AM   #150 (permalink)
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Glad you took all the emotion out of it. That is a particularly passionless shade of red.

I say, let's see if he's truly been overvalued. I don't think this was done to avoid paying him increased value should he happen to show great improvement. I think it was just making an honest assessment and establishing a good business relationship. It just isn't the end of the world at this point. If he shows no improvement then we can all rant and rave about overvaluing him, in any shade of red or orange or chartreuse. But since he has improved every year, and remains committed to improving, it's not that bad of a bet to think he will continue to improve.
Completely agree. He works hard, he's a good kid, and he's got potential to be a very bruising SG on both sides..... it is too much money, but at least he's 23 and getting overpaid while still on an upward trajectory. I've seen some flashes already... that alley-oop dunk looked like it was going to be in the tenth row and he went to the moon for it... his best in-game dunk ever.

He's got to tighten his game up, but he's also not an injury concern so there if very little risk that his contract becomes a complete albatross.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:19 AM   #151 (permalink)
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It's ok to spend a bit on DD. Where Colangelo has handicapped us is spending on Fields/Amir/Kleiza.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:21 AM   #152 (permalink)
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It's ok to spend a bit on DD. Where Colangelo has handicapped us is spending on Fields/Amir/Kleiza.
Kleiza isn't a problem whatsoever, he makes 4.5Mil and becomes an expiring next summer. Amir if push come to shove can be amnestied in the summer if not traded. Fields imo can be a decent backup although i agree that his contract is hideous.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:24 AM   #153 (permalink)
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It's ok to spend a bit on DD. Where Colangelo has handicapped us is spending on Fields/Amir/Kleiza.
Amir actually isn't that bad -look at Channing Frye (he owes Nash a lot of that contract). LKZ - it was a calculated risk after what he showed at the World Championship. Fields - it looks bad, but 3 years isn't that long. When I heard of the deal I was surprised it wasn't a 4 or 5 year deal given BC's track record.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:29 AM   #154 (permalink)
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Kleiza isn't a problem whatsoever, he makes 4.5Mil and becomes an expiring next summer. Amir if push come to shove can be amnestied in the summer if not traded. Fields imo can be a decent backup although i agree that his contract is hideous.
In terms of Kleiza, he's bad because we're paying him not to play he is that bad. Amir's pretty redundant thanks to Ed Davis and Fields is just terrible as stated. These are 3 players who could easily be replaced at a fraction of the current cost. We currently have nobody to take Derozan's spot. Ross *might* show that one day, but he appears a long way from that.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:31 AM   #155 (permalink)
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GSW just signed Curry to $44mil over 4 years. Now, I realize that Curry is a higher risk, but if he manages to stay healthy, THAT would be a great deal.

DeRozan we've seen so far is not worth 10mil/year no matter how you look at it. We are left (once again) hoping that he still has some room to grow.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:32 AM   #156 (permalink)
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In terms of Kleiza, he's bad because we're paying him not to play he is that bad. Amir's pretty redundant thanks to Ed Davis and Fields is just terrible as stated. These are 3 players who could easily be replaced at a fraction of the current cost. We currently have nobody to take Derozan's spot. Ross *might* show that one day, but he appears a long way from that.
Don't start the Amir vs ED debate.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:34 AM   #157 (permalink)
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GSW just signed Curry to $44mil over 4 years. Now, I realize that Curry is a higher risk, but if he manages to stay healthy, THAT would be a great deal.

DeRozan we've seen so far is not worth 10mil/year no matter how you look at it. We are left (once again) hoping that he still has some room to grow.
Yup. Don't worry, for the raps - being a good guy, a hard worker, having some potential = unnecessary contracts.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:41 AM   #158 (permalink)
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GSW just signed Curry to $44mil over 4 years. Now, I realize that Curry is a higher risk, but if he manages to stay healthy, THAT would be a great deal.

DeRozan we've seen so far is not worth 10mil/year no matter how you look at it. We are left (once again) hoping that he still has some room to grow.
and jrue holiday was signed to wat, 46 million so.. 11.5 million a year? Is jrue worth that much while Derozan isn't? really?

Some members of this forum need to chill. with the market inflation happening recently, the average NBA player after a rookie contract makes around 5-6 million a year. and..... Derozan is more than an average player. If you say he isn't, well...... i'll say this much. The average SG in the NBA doesn't score 16 a game
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:45 AM   #159 (permalink)
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and jrue holiday was signed to wat, 46 million so.. 11.5 million a year? Is jrue worth that much while Derozan isn't? really?

Some members of this forum need to chill. with the market inflation happening recently, the average NBA player after a rookie contract makes around 5-6 million a year. and..... Derozan is more than an average player. If you say he isn't, well...... i'll say this much. The average SG in the NBA doesn't score 16 a game
Holiday's deal was 4yrs/41Mil (46Mil with bonuses if incentives are met)

Derozan's deal was 4yrs/38Mil (42Mil with Bonuses if incentives are met)


Holiday>>>>>>Derozan
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:50 AM   #160 (permalink)
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Holiday's deal was 4yrs/41Mil (46Mil with bonuses if incentives are met)

Derozan's deal was 4yrs/38Mil (42Mil with Bonuses if incentives are met)


Holiday>>>>>>Derozan
Agreed. Also, Philly kind of had to do it. They are really banking on him, Turner and a C whose greatest weakness is himself.
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