Official: Raps sign DeRozan to a 4 year extension - Page 7
Old 11-01-2012, 02:03 PM   #121 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,351
Representing:
Default

Raptors gave DeMar DeRozan a contract extension in a one-team auction based on a dangerous idea: Smith - thestar.com


Quote:
You know I donít mind general managers taking chances, you make the moves you think will work and fix them as quickly as you can if they go south. Iíd much rather that than have someone who just plods along trying hit singles when home runs win games.

But this is an unnecessary gamble. Heís paying for the future when he didnít have to, heís hoping DeRozan keeps getting better ó and to the kidís credit he did everything they asked him to do last summer ó without knowing whether he will. DeRozanís a pretty good player right now but there are flaws in his game that have to be addressed. Heís a solid kid, good in the locker room, liked by his teammates and coaches laud his work ethic. Heís a solid citizen but you donít pay for citizenship, either; you pay for production instead of promise, or at least you should.

The money?

The moneyís not crippling; it does reduce some of Bryanís vaunted ďflexibilityĒ but there are other ways to free up room and even if you do, it doesnít mean anyone will take it if your teams not any good.

It is overpaying? Probably, but thatís not the biggest point.

The biggest point is that they didnít have to do it, thereís not an awful lot of track record that says DeRozan is going to be anywhere near special. Heís good, not great; and I donít see great in his future.

Again, they bid against themselves when they didnít have to.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:19 PM   #122 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Calderon was open, is one of the best shooters in the league, certainly the most consistent for this team, and the shot clock was running out. Demar was no more open than Jose and was clearly surprised to receive the pass, as he should have been.

Guess what, in the same situation between Jose taking the shot or passing it last second to Dwyane Wade, he still should have shot. Does that say a lot about Wade's value on a 10 million dollar contract?
I disagree. The corner three is the easiest shot out there. He made a great pass to a SG who should hit that shot all day, the corner three is a very desirable shot.

Its one game, Derozan was brutal. I'm sure he'll bounce back.
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:34 PM   #123 (permalink)
rb
let the games begin

Senior Member
 
rb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vaughan
Posts: 966
Representing:
Default

yeah i wouldn't let one game bother us, steph curry just signed a 4yr/44mill contract and shot on abysmal 2-14 and had 5 points, means nothing.

regarding demars contract, i guess bc gambled that he will either improve to the point were he'll be worth it or improve so much so that it would be a bargain. philly just did the same thing by handing jrue holliday a 4yr/41mill extension and holliday like derozan hasn't proven that he's worth it yet. i'm not worried however, dd's a hard working guy who would probably get 7-8 annually in the current market and they payed him a bit more.
rb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #124 (permalink)
is getting to the line..

Senior Member
 
Ex2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,316
Representing:
Default

What the fuck ya gonnna do - Triano

Ex2k is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:46 PM   #125 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,499
Representing:
Default

Its to early to judge,if he develops into an all-star it'll be a steal of a deal. If he steadily declines then yea it will be disappointment, I wouldn't worry though,if BC got rid of Turkoglu,he could easily do the same with DeRozan if he flops. Let's just hope he continues to prove,he hasn't hit the 5 year pro mark yet.
MBailey85 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 02:52 PM   #126 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,351
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz View Post
Its to early to judge,if he develops into an all-star it'll be a steal of a deal. If he steadily declines then yea it will be disappointment, I wouldn't worry though,if BC got rid of Turkoglu,he could easily do the same with DeRozan if he flops. Let's just hope he continues to prove,he hasn't hit the 5 year pro mark yet.
I believe that he has two years after this one to earn that contract. After that he becomes expendable and we can move his ass. A 4yr deal isn't that big a deal imo. If you have to move him with 2yrs/20Mil (ish) left on his deal we should be able to do so. In the meantime let's hope he improves.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 03:03 PM   #127 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 7,173
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
really, did stern force us to sign landry to 6 and derozan to 10? First one well above market and second one when there was no market whatsoever - there was no need to extend him. There was ZERO chance we'd lose derozan, at WORST, his market price would have increased over 10, and that would have been fantastic. I'd rather have a 12 million player who make 12 million than a 7 million who makes 10, which is what we currently have.

The ONLY way this works out to our advantage is if Demar makes a dramatic jump in performance, to basically a near all star level player. You tell me if that's likely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneironaught View Post
Unless Stern put a gun to BC's head and instructed him to sign a 2/3 combo that collectively can't shoot or dribble or play quality defense, then I blame BC.

Derozan has improved steadily from his days bricking open 15 footers and solely finishing baseline alley oops, but I don't see much more room to grow. He has a nice post game now, but he rarely beats his man on the perimeter because of still shaky handles and a slow first step. And his shot mechanics won't let him expand his range. Yes he can get to the line and put up some nice scoring games, but he also has a knack for letting opposing 2 guards put up similar numbers. And he doesn't rebound well. BAH! GAH! TWWWIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Any team in the NBA or most leagues for that matter. Players are overpayed constantly.
this was what I was referring to, what jeff said. market inflation. that's why it's stern's fault. teams like Miami can get stars to make less than the maximum to win and and live in a good destination, but we have to pay through our nose because the likes of jrue holiday are getting paid more than 10 million a year.
pzabby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 03:04 PM   #128 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,499
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
I believe that he has two years after this one to earn that contract. After that he becomes expendable and we can move his ass. A 4yr deal isn't that big a deal imo. If you have to move him with 2yrs/20Mil (ish) left on his deal we should be able to do so. In the meantime let's hope he improves.
Agreed,2 years is probably what he has to prove himself.

Personally,I would like to see DeRozan improve on his pentrating and dishing abilities,make the game easier for his teammates. Also he has the athleticism to become a better defender.
MBailey85 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 03:09 PM   #129 (permalink)
FLO
sick of the Raptors Axis of Evil: Colangelo, Casey and Bustnani

Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 970
Representing:
Default

I know there's a lot of rage going on at another Raptors website over this. Great to see DD returning. I hope he continues to improve and earns it. Like it or not, he's here so let's support him.
FLO is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 04:23 PM   #130 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 10,403
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
this was what I was referring to, what jeff said. market inflation. that's why it's stern's fault. teams like Miami can get stars to make less than the maximum to win and and live in a good destination, but we have to pay through our nose because the likes of jrue holiday are getting paid more than 10 million a year.
still don't get how is this stern's doing? Inflation occurs when supply exceeds demand, and that can happen either because of too much demand, or insufficient supply. I think last summer the problem was that there was way too much demand. A ton of teams had max cap space and there are only a few players worth the max.

In any case, it looks like we won't be having this problem anytime soon ...
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 04:27 PM   #131 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 10,403
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneironaught View Post
Unless Stern put a gun to BC's head and instructed him to sign a 2/3 combo that collectively can't shoot or dribble or play quality defense, then I blame BC.

Derozan has improved steadily from his days bricking open 15 footers and solely finishing baseline alley oops, but I don't see much more room to grow. He has a nice post game now, but he rarely beats his man on the perimeter because of still shaky handles and a slow first step. And his shot mechanics won't let him expand his range. Yes he can get to the line and put up some nice scoring games, but he also has a knack for letting opposing 2 guards put up similar numbers. And he doesn't rebound well. BAH! GAH! TWWWIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think demar has lots of room to improve, and he may just play well enough to justify his money. But that's not the point, the point is that we didn't have to overpay, there was no pressing need for us - at this point I'm not even convinced demar is a core piece for us.

I think BC just got scared of all the teams with max cap space next summer, after all, it only takes one moronic GM to compromise our chances to sign demar for a reasonable amount.

Still, 10/yr is ridiculous money, even in the current market. DeAndre Jordan, Ibaka, Lawson, Gallinari, Batum got that kind of money and demar just doesn't belong with that crowd.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 05:56 PM   #132 (permalink)
LX
effin' ineffable

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 30,572
Representing:
Default

I think it's easy to say that they didn't have to do it, but Demar doesn't have to show a commitment to improve or stay here long term either. If they decided that it was likely that they woulld pay him around this much a year from now anyway, then there is a better relationship in place, not only with the player, but his agent as well. If they don't sign him now then everything gets put under the microscope. Casey is going to need him to put team first, and that is hard for a young player, harder for a young player with a contract on the line, and even harder for a young player who might not be certain that his team will want to keep him.

So far I have found his handles improved, and seen a real nice commitment on the defensive end. That didn't translate so much last night, but it's about the whole season. There's a chance I'll be bitching when the season is done, but I'm saving my breath until then.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 06:24 PM   #133 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 22,072
Representing:
Default

Quote:
What was the rationale for the deal?
“I would say, first of all, DeMar is a young talent. He is a hard worker. He’s been developing and progressing to a level that we felt [that] he is an asset. We wanted to retain the asset. This is mostly about asset retention. Yes, it does lock in an asset [at a fixed price] moving forward. As far as some of the talk or discussion that we’ve lost some of our flexibility: we really haven’t, in our opinion. This is somewhat of a cap-neutral deal because going forward, had we issued a qualifying offer or dealt with that next summer in terms of going into restricted free agency, you basically have a situation where there is a cap hold. The cap hold is a little bit higher than the actual qualifying offer. In effect, the cap hold was a number that was at or near the number we ultimately settled on. The talk about the size of the deal: We feel he slotted in exactly where we felt he ultimately would. You saw all of the deals unfold yesterday. You saw Blake Griffin early on. James Harden happened a little bit later in the day. The Ty Lawson deal was something that we expected. Jrue Holiday [was] just North of where DeMar was. … I don’t want to comment on the other deals. But we felt this market played out exactly as we anticipated.”
Quote:
What message does it send to DeRozan regarding expectations?
“He’s always expressed an interest in being here. He really likes Toronto. He appreciates the way the organization has treated him and the way the fans have treated him. It’s kind of interesting that he played one year of college basketball. He’s played three seasons for us. Arguably, he spent his formative college years with us. We’ve grown with him. He’s grown with us. … Not only do we want him, but he wants to be there. That’s important to me. That’s important to the organization. It’s an important message to send that we’ve got a nice fit and we want to retain our players that work hard and show signs of promise. We feel by no means that he has reached his ceiling. Upside is a commodity in this business, and we definitely feel that this is a wise investment. The message to DeMar is that we see him as a keeper.”
Toronto Raptors’ Bryan Colangelo defends DeMar DeRozan’s contract extension | NBA | Sports | National Post
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 06:27 PM   #134 (permalink)
FLO
sick of the Raptors Axis of Evil: Colangelo, Casey and Bustnani

Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 970
Representing:
Default

Again, I'm happy he's here, but there's no way he was offered more than 6-7 million from another team.
FLO is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 06:33 PM   #135 (permalink)
LX
effin' ineffable

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 30,572
Representing:
Default

I didn't read that piece in the post before I made my points, and I have to say I feel uneasy about being simpatico with the Colangelo. But as a business deal, it really doesn't feel so bad at this point.

Now go make that trade Colangelo!
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 07:20 PM   #136 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Waterloo / Toronto
Posts: 139
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz View Post
Its to early to judge,if he develops into an all-star it'll be a steal of a deal. If he steadily declines then yea it will be disappointment, I wouldn't worry though,if BC got rid of Turkoglu,he could easily do the same with DeRozan if he flops. Let's just hope he continues to prove,he hasn't hit the 5 year pro mark yet.
lol at people saying IF he develops into an all star...lets see him develop into a starting SG caliber player first
HugoBoss is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:02 AM   #137 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Now go make that trade Colangelo!
What trade exactly? Jose, Ross + ED for that elusive SF who's tied down to a few years (making more than 10 million/year for the next 3 years?). So, we have 3 players making 10 million/year, Amir + Fields making 6/year. LKZ with his 4-5/year. Then Lowry will need to be extended at some point in time.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:56 AM   #138 (permalink)
waiting for his team to return

Member
 
Grizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 483
Representing:
Default

Getting very tired of having the Raps make universally ridiculed moves.

Derozan has shown little progress since he was drafted. Not sure how much longer we're supposed to keep banking on his potential.

If he comes out and makes a huge jump this year, and there's no reason to think he will, but let's be generous, he might get an RFA offer for 10-12 a year and we can then match. Not to mention, what's the point of drafting Ross if we were going to sign Derozan, use to PG line ups and sign Fields?

There was literally no reason to sign this deal other than "Derozan might have trouble focusing if he's in a contract year". If that's the best reason you can come up with, please kindly light your offer on fire.

It's a bad move that no one outside of a select few Raptor fans think he *might* be able to live up to. I will be ecstatic if proven wrong, but there's nothing to suggest that's going to happen.
Grizz is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 01:17 AM   #139 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
Getting very tired of having the Raps make universally ridiculed moves.

Derozan has shown little progress since he was drafted. Not sure how much longer we're supposed to keep banking on his potential.

If he comes out and makes a huge jump this year, and there's no reason to think he will, but let's be generous, he might get an RFA offer for 10-12 a year and we can then match. Not to mention, what's the point of drafting Ross if we were going to sign Derozan, use to PG line ups and sign Fields?

There was literally no reason to sign this deal other than "Derozan might have trouble focusing if he's in a contract year". If that's the best reason you can come up with, please kindly light your offer on fire.

It's a bad move that no one outside of a select few Raptor fans think he *might* be able to live up to. I will be ecstatic if proven wrong, but there's nothing to suggest that's going to happen.
dude, don't you know, the raps are a hot spot for 1-dimensional talent. If a player can only do one thing, they get 6 million/year. If a player does 2 things well and is a nice guy, they get almost 10 million/year.

You don't pay for what might/possibly/hopefully happens, you pay for production in the nba.

Last edited by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!!; 11-02-2012 at 01:21 AM.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 01:24 AM   #140 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

From DeMar DeRozan’s Toronto Raptors contract and the two risks | NBA | Sports | National Post

"If you want to remove all emotion from the situation, the decision about whether to extend a player’s contract before he hits restricted free agency comes down to weighing two calculated risks against each other.

1. If you do not sign the player, you risk that the player has a wonderful year and his value on the open market becomes higher than it would have been previously. Additionally, another team can structure an offer sheet in such a way that it becomes prohibitive, or at least difficult, to match and retain the player. Essentially, the player will be more expensive in the future than he is right now. Hence, you extend his contract now.

2. If you do sign the player, trying to avoid the first scenario, you risk the player never living up to the deal. Sure, the open market can be a volatile place — unpredictable and subject to the whims of a bold, maybe reckless general manager or two — but none of that matters if you have overvalued the player in the first place. "
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24