The Official Fire Dwane Casey Thread - Page 2
Old 11-25-2012, 05:53 PM   #21 (permalink)
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But it is a coach job to find best players for a situation on the floor (NOT a GM's job) Keeping AB on the floor tonight with 10% from the field was beyond my understanding unless that is a direct GM orders.
Agreed, but it's still a shitty situation to be in all the same. The GM signed a bunch of guys, promising minutes or an expanded role at least. The GM decided with the coach, that it was possible to put a bunch of gritty guys around Bargnani and hide his weaknesses. The problem is that we rarely see his strengths, so the whole basis of how the team was put together ends up just going from one difficult proposition to another. Then you have the need to play two point guards through the end of games. I would say that is clearly on the GM. He needs to have Jose placated as always, even though it's never worked under any coach here.

They edge towards clarity, and they could make a real jump, but that's entirely on the GM. If he can't do his job then they will both likely go. I still hold out slim hopes that he does his job and that Casey gets a chance to stand firmly by his principles, the way Mitchell should have been allowed to. Self preservation does come into play for any coach outside of Pops. I always thought Sloan could also be included with Pops, but even he was asked to bend too much and couldn't. Sam reached a point where he wasn't going to give. I don't think Casey is there yet. Where I see the real breaking point is with Colangelo and a need to get results. All he needs to do is to balance out the roster in order to strengthen the team's identity and get them a sniff at competing for an 8th seed. That's not extravagant expectations, and the coach should definitely see the door if moves are made and the problems continue.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:55 PM   #22 (permalink)
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No matter the pressure from BC, it's clear that were not winning with Casey at the helm. Which guys does BC want to get minutes? I'd say Bargs, Fields, Lowery, Demar, and JV. He probably wants Ross to get minutes down the line as well. Even then though, Casey is the one who decides to bench JV despite his terrific play (not today, in general), Ross hardly gets minutes and overall his rotations are horrible. He doesn't play Ed and would rather play Aaron Grey in clutch situations. I would say there is no pressure on him to play Calderon, because why would there be. Which means Casey's horrible rotations are entirely on him, aside from Bargnani. Also, if Bargnani is benched and we win games, I don't see how BC would get mad, especially in a game like today.

Along with rotations, Casey can barely draw up a play. How many clutch situations did we get a good shot? Lucas three and Demar lay up today. The rest is either a TO or a contested shot. There's that one play where everyone spreads out and doesn't move and we feed Bargnani at the high post, the first time it was ran Bargs had a horrible look to tie the game and we lose. So what does Casey do? He runs it again in another clutch game except this time the ball gets stolen.

So his rotations suck, his play calls suck, his decision making really sucks, and his defense is good but always comes up short in the fourth. What's this guy good for? Like I said before he'd make a good assistant, he's not a head coach.

Last edited by Blaze; 11-25-2012 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
threes and free throws

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I don't understand why Kleiza didn't play. It's not like he was inactive. Did he get hurt and I missed it?
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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BC traded our pick away, so I'd hope we're all in for the playoffs this year. It must be killing him to see Bargnani struggle so horribly. There's no way Colangelo has a job if we don't make the playoffs.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I don't understand why Kleiza didn't play. It's not like he was inactive. Did he get hurt and I missed it?
It's called having a reasonable rotation. He's just another of the meh wings. You could argue that he should have gotten Dom's minutes, and maybe he will at some point, but there's not much to get worked up about either way. It's just a mess in any case.

Kleiza disappoints me. He shows a nice ability to pass the ball in the post when he's playing internationally, but here hes such a black hole and goes 1 on 5 so much.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:15 PM   #26 (permalink)
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You gotta just laugh and not take this team seriously when he A) plays the 2 PG lineup when both PGs are struggling, B) gives the 4th quarter and both overtimes to a player shooting 2-19(not just Bargs, any player) C) Benches a player having the game of his life where the majority is coming via hustle and effort.

I really have no idea what Casey was thinking. He just doesn't seem fit to be a head coach.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:57 PM   #27 (permalink)
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It's called having a reasonable rotation. He's just another of the meh wings. You could argue that he should have gotten Dom's minutes, and maybe he will at some point, but there's not much to get worked up about either way. It's just a mess in any case.

Kleiza disappoints me. He shows a nice ability to pass the ball in the post when he's playing internationally, but here hes such a black hole and goes 1 on 5 so much.
He's qualitatively better on the offensive end. And at the end of the game, it was again our offense that struggled. We scored 36 points in 22 minutes. At the very least he could have been put in instead of this insanely shit 2 pg line-up. Even with Lowry and Jose out there Jose by far had the majority of the playmaking responsibility. I remember one possession where Lowry called Jose to take the ball from him. The offense just works better with Lowry doing the handling. And with Kleiza on we could have gone with him with Lowry and DeMar so our D wouldn't be god-awful with Jose getting blown by (the Spurs don't have a swingman that was killing us, just guards).

What bothers me about Casey is that he's been making excuses all season. I can understand a few games, close games where you just say to yourself "it could have gone either way, it will next time" but this many games in excuses aren't going to cut it. He's not saying I have to change the offense to accommodate Ed and JV and Ross and Kleiza so we have a shot at winning when we don't get a good scoring night from Bargs/DeMar/Lowry, or saying we need to work on the offense, especially out of bounds plays, or saying our defense has been really shoddy and we're doubling at the right times and we're helping at the wrong times which lead to wide-open threes. Or even that we need to close out with more intensity. He's not putting any responsibility for this team's success on himself.

He's specifically saying things like WE CAN'T WIN without Bargs (or the invisible player du jour). He's specifically saying he's going to match-up to his opponent's line-up of two smaller guards rather than play Kleiza at the three when the Jose/Lowry combo has proven to not work well at all. He's specifically saying that we're gonna feed Bargs shots even if he's as cold as ice and you could play scorching Ed Davis in the fourth and overtimes to give the team some hustle and rebounding. He doesn't even point out specific problems or calls players out on the post-game interview - no, he says things like we need to pay attention to the details, we need to figure out how to close close games out and all that vague BS which is just a cop-out; all the while praising whoever did well that night and being cheerful and optimistic.

He should be pissed we're not winning and he should be pissed his coaching isn't getting the job done. But as I said all I see him doing is rationalizing the losses as the responsibility of the team's fortune or one poor performance on a given night. I can't support a coach who doesn't take the responsibility for winning onto himself, ESPECIALLY after we've had so many close losses and close games are the ones that allow for the most impact by the coach. He might be a great coach, but his mentality just doesn't jive with our players or our results.

Also, either Lowry is well below 100% or, like I'm worried he is, he can see the team isn't changing or getting better and he's tuning out the coach and his teammates. He's already showing bad body language, being less aggressive with his penetration and instead taking hero shots which aren't falling. I clearly saw him freeze Bargnani out on several possessions in favour of trying to do it himself. Plus he's so used to getting the clear foul calls that we aren't and he's pissed and complains and we gave up at least three easy buckets (including the foul on Ginobili) because that complaining got in the way of getting back on D. This is why I'd rather trade him soon rather than watch him get so disgruntled after a single season that we HAVE to trade him and get less of a return because of it.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:08 PM   #28 (permalink)
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^the two pg thing is definitely brutal. And the excuses are old. But so was playing 11 guys.

Lowry is definitely well elbow 100 percent and that bugs the hell out of me. His speed isn't there on either end. I hate lingering foot injuries.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:14 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Lowry and his threes really make me mad, its either hit or miss, dribbles up and throws one up, but hey, our whole team does that, i rather him do it.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:36 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Lowry and his threes really make me mad, its either hit or miss, dribbles up and throws one up, but hey, our whole team does that, i rather him do it.
Isn't every shot hit or miss?
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:20 PM   #31 (permalink)
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After tonight, I have to join this thread.

I just dont understand how a good coach ever plays a guy with this kind of night:

36:21 2-19 0-7 0-1 0 1 8 1 2 1 1 2 3 4

Over this kind of night:

21:39 7-11 0-0 1-2 -5 8 14 0 0 0 0 0 1 15


Casey is a company man with no balls, or brain.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:27 PM   #32 (permalink)
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He did have balls at one point today. He went with Davis for a much longer stretch than normal heading into the 4th. I don't think Bargnani even saw the court until 4 minutes left; he sat for a full 8 minutes straight at the beginning of the 4th Q, in addition to whatever time he sat when Ed entered in the 3rd. He was probably sitting for 12+ minutes. If there was no overtime, Bargnani would not have even played 28 minutes tonight.

If I remember correctly, he brought Bargnani back in because the Raps went 4 or 5 possessions without a bucket. The Spurs had cut a small Raptor lead and were taking over. However, after it was evident that Bargnani was still STONE COLD, I agree that Ed should have come back in for overtime.

So, to be fair, Casey was starting to show some balls, he just wouldn't follow through to the full extent necessary.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:45 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Why would you want to fire Casey? Casey does what the GM tells him to do.
You would have to fire BC before Casey. BC tells him to play AB. Why in the world would you
Pull ed Davis from the game, that has to be a call higher than the coach.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:44 PM   #34 (permalink)
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-Terrible substitutions
-Terrible lineups
-Vastly inconsistent minute distributions
-Out-coached at the end of tight games
-Reliance on veterans
-Under-playing youth
-Refuses to stand up for his players getting hacked and no calls

You name it, Casey's done a terrible job.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:45 PM   #35 (permalink)
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firing casey because he decided to put Bargnani in when the team was in a shooting drought in the fourth, is a stupid reason. is it casey's fault that Bargnani couldnt even make a ft? no. should he have put Ed back in in overtime? yes. but lets not forget defensively Bargnani did some key things late in the game, namely messing up parker's inbound.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:51 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FLO View Post
-Terrible substitutions
-Terrible lineups
-Vastly inconsistent minute distributions
-Out-coached at the end of tight games
-Reliance on veterans
-Under-playing youth
-Refuses to stand up for his players getting hacked and no calls

You name it, Casey's done a terrible job.
you cant necessarily blame him for the lineups and substitutions when he's dealing with our roster.. we needed shooting so he put in our best offensive player (because with davis in the game the 4th quarter drought happened)

minute distribution is another thing you cant really blame, derozan is being overplayed but he's really the only one consistently producing. that goes into reliance on vets and underplaying youth... do i think that ross and davis should get more time yes! but most of this anger is stemming from last game when tho i dont agree with andrea playing both OT's you can see why he was in there.

and he does argue with refs he has argued, he isnt as "powerful" as Pop but you do see him talking to refs like when Bargs got hit in charlotte.


unless youre bringing in a stan van gundy or a jerry sloan which i dont think will happen, casey is an excellent coach to have. he is far from being the problem, this roster is a problem and gm.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:37 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I like how the Raps are playing defense. The one flaw Casey is that he is too loyal to his preferred players (Bargnani & Jose):

"You can second-guess me for not getting (Davis) back in but I have to go with Andrea," Casey said. "Come hell or high water he is our guy."

Maybe he promised Bargnani if he gives effort and plays hard on defense, he'll get his minutes regardless of offense output.

I'll like Casey, but riding the Bargnani horse will lead you straight off the cliff. Just ask BC and Gherardhini, who lose their jobs by the end of the year.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:50 PM   #38 (permalink)
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"You can second-guess me for not getting (Davis) back in but I have to go with Andrea," Casey said. "Come hell or high water he is our guy."
This quote in particular was extremely discouraging for me. There really are only a handful of guys in the league who you would leave in the game despiet a 2-19 effort, and Bargnani certainly isn't one of those guys. He isn't LeBron, he isn't Duncan, he isn't Dwight Howard, he doesn't do anything besides score, and when he isn't scoring, he's useless. The Raps played 4v5 tonight. Honestly he's proving more often than not that he isn't even particularly good at scoring, man.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:20 PM   #39 (permalink)
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DC did what what most coaches would have done with his rotations. Bargs kept shooting as shooters always do.....he was taking good shots. Jose had the bulk of the ball handling responsibility....seems more more that Jose is a better play maker then Lowry. Lowry is a 2 guard in point guard body. Lowry tends to be a chucker forcing shots....he tends to take bad shots at the worst possible time. But hes one of your scorers and thats his game DC just keeps marching him out there as he should. We are very close more and more we are starting to see what works to put us in a position to win. We will be ok////its a long season we can easily string up a few wins to get us right back in the thick of things.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:31 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Dwane Casey - Nov. 26, 2012 | video | THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE TORONTO RAPTORS

Casey got grilled pretty hard about some of the decisions last night, he talked about them today, if anyone cares for a listen.
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