The Official Fire Brian Colangelo Thread - Page 14
Old 04-25-2013, 05:58 PM   #261 (permalink)
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I think if MLSE spends we can have a top notch GM here. BC as much as we hate him has gotten talent here, and if MLSE says theyll be willing to spend say the MLE and or more exceptions this summer for the bench, with an already talented starting unit, most GMs wouldnt mind the situation. our starting five is in high regard in the league believe it or not, and the stats back that up.

MLSE just has to pay the wages is all
New GM wouldn't have much freedom other than trading one or more of the starters, having no cap will mean we cant sign any big FA's. I would think that proven GM would want to have more options.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:09 PM   #262 (permalink)
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New GM wouldn't have much freedom other than trading one or more of the starters, having no cap will mean we cant sign any big FA's. I would think that proven GM would want to have more options.
if this team lacked talent i would agree with you. but we have a great starting unit, in terms of starting unit talent, were top 5 in the east. if he is given reign to fill up the bench with as many exceptions as the CBA allows, he would have himself a talented team in place, and his only job would be to maybe hire a better staff and then he could just sit back, relax, and take credit for work which largely wasnt his.


the talent and potential level in this team would be enticing to any GM not already leading an elite team
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:12 PM   #263 (permalink)
sure KL is not a top 10 pg

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if this team lacked talent i would agree with you. but we have a great starting unit, in terms of starting unit talent, were top 5 in the east. if he is given reign to fill up the bench with as many exceptions as the CBA allows, he would have himself a talented team in place, and his only job would be to maybe hire a better staff and then he could just sit back, relax, and take credit for work which largely wasnt his.


the talent and potential level in this team would be enticing to any GM not already leading an elite team
lol ... Did the east get reduced to 6 teams?
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:25 PM   #264 (permalink)
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lol ... Did the east get reduced to 6 teams?
in terms of starting 5 level of talent:

heat
indiana
brooklyn
chicago
toronto/NY (it is a toss up because NY has arguably more super star power but we have a better rounded starting 5)

than everyone else.

boston is getting older and older and older...
cavs may work up depending on summer moves
really who else is there? MIL? a backcourt of jennings and ellis can be great offensively, but can also be really inefficient, and defence wise the two just give up too much in terms of ability and size

there you go
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:28 PM   #265 (permalink)
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So the starting 5 is that good, but the coach utterly failed. Ok.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:45 PM   #266 (permalink)
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So the starting 5 is that good, but the coach utterly failed. Ok.
the coach didnt live up to expectations yes, but if said coach actually had this starting lineup for the entire season without all the nasty poltical shenanigans ala Calderon or bargnani, and had gay here from the get go, our record would be a lot better than what it is now.

our issue as a team now is the coach (hopefully he improves his rotations, accountability, role sizes) and depth. even with these two problems, we have the talent to be chasing the 7-8 spots next season. if one or both of these problems improve or are fixed, and some actual stability enters this franchise for once, we can see some real progress in team culture (ala spurs) and consequently our ranking in the East
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:53 PM   #267 (permalink)
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in terms of starting 5 level of talent:

heat
indiana
brooklyn
chicago
toronto/NY (it is a toss up because NY has arguably more super star power but we have a better rounded starting 5)

than everyone else.

boston is getting older and older and older...
cavs may work up depending on summer moves
really who else is there? MIL? a backcourt of jennings and ellis can be great offensively, but can also be really inefficient, and defence wise the two just give up too much in terms of ability and size

there you go
So u'd trade Garnett, pierce, green, rondo and Bradley/terry to get our 5?
U say ellis and Jennings r better offensively but you think lowry/derozan is some kind of shutdown guard combo? I think I was watching the wrong games this year. Henson, ilyasova and Sanders r worse than aj, jv and gay? Cleveland IF they improve this summer? Who else is there? You're missing like 4 or 5 other teams? Lol ...
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:14 PM   #268 (permalink)
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So u'd trade Garnett, pierce, green, rondo and Bradley/terry to get our 5?
U say ellis and Jennings r better offensively but you think lowry/derozan is some kind of shutdown guard combo? I think I was watching the wrong games this year. Henson, ilyasova and Sanders r worse than aj, jv and gay? Cleveland IF they improve this summer? Who else is there? You're missing like 4 or 5 other teams? Lol ...
do you really want me to explain why a team like th bobcats or orlando has a worse starting 5 than us?

as for boston, outside of bradley and rondo and KG I wouldnt take any other player on that roster over ours , and bradley is even arguable given how great a healthy lowry is on defence, while bringing so much more to the table at the same time. and this is all looking at it short term, let alone who I and most others would take long term.

lowry is miles better defensively than jennings, and while Derozan is the weakest defensive link on our starting lineup at least he isnt undersized for his position. gay and JV i would take over sanders and ilyasova. AJ is equal to henson in terms of current ability.

clevelands starting lineup right now is irving plus 4, and I dont give as much credit to varejao as his ability simply because the dude is so undurable. id take AJ over tristan for now in terms of ability. and the rest of the lineup comapred isnt even a question.

who else huh? instead of just :LOLING: at my post, why dont you come up with actual facts to back yourself up?
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:53 PM   #269 (permalink)
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do you really want me to explain why a team like th bobcats or orlando has a worse starting 5 than us?

as for boston, outside of bradley and rondo and KG I wouldnt take any other player on that roster over ours , and bradley is even arguable given how great a healthy lowry is on defence, while bringing so much more to the table at the same time. and this is all looking at it short term, let alone who I and most others would take long term.

lowry is miles better defensively than jennings, and while Derozan is the weakest defensive link on our starting lineup at least he isnt undersized for his position. gay and JV i would take over sanders and ilyasova. AJ is equal to henson in terms of current ability.

clevelands starting lineup right now is irving plus 4, and I dont give as much credit to varejao as his ability simply because the dude is so undurable. id take AJ over tristan for now in terms of ability. and the rest of the lineup comapred isnt even a question.

who else huh? instead of just :LOLING: at my post, why dont you come up with actual facts to back yourself up?
I never mentioned Orlando or Charlotte but they may be the only 2 teams in the east that Toronto's starting 5 is clearly better than.

Last i checked there were only 5 spots in the starting lineup so KG, Rondo and Bradley are 3/5ths of that.

Somehow Lowry is miles better defensively than Jennings but Sanders and Ilyasova are worse than JV and Gay. And i thought Sanders was a DPOY candidate. I must have missed Lowry's consideration for that.

So AV is given no credit because he's undurable. But JV and Gay are the model of health so they deserve credit. And i agree ... Irving vs Lowry is not in question either.

Finally, I guess by actual facts you mean the ones littered all around your post?
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:57 PM   #270 (permalink)
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the coach didnt live up to expectations yes, but if said coach actually had this starting lineup for the entire season without all the nasty poltical shenanigans ala Calderon or bargnani, and had gay here from the get go, our record would be a lot better than what it is now.

our issue as a team now is the coach (hopefully he improves his rotations, accountability, role sizes) and depth. even with these two problems, we have the talent to be chasing the 7-8 spots next season. if one or both of these problems improve or are fixed, and some actual stability enters this franchise for once, we can see some real progress in team culture (ala spurs) and consequently our ranking in the East
btw i love that the same poster that says we have top 5 talent says we'll be chasing down the 7,8 spots next season. I'd have figured 2 or 3 spots higher? Maybe it's just me ...
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:17 PM   #271 (permalink)
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I have an idea how you can solve this ( if you are that bored ) just do the flowing for all teams:
ex: Cleveland vs Toronto
Irving>Lowry
Waiters>DD
Gee/Walton?<Gay
Thompson=Amir
Varejao<JV

I made this based on the trade value mostly
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:23 PM   #272 (permalink)
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btw i love that the same poster that says we have top 5 talent says we'll be chasing down the 7,8 spots next season. I'd have figured 2 or 3 spots higher? Maybe it's just me ...
a starting 5 doesnt make a team. depth, coaching, and a shit load of other considerations come into play. we are strictly taking about the starting 5 unit
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:26 PM   #273 (permalink)
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I never mentioned Orlando or Charlotte but they may be the only 2 teams in the east that Toronto's starting 5 is clearly better than.

Last i checked there were only 5 spots in the starting lineup so KG, Rondo and Bradley are 3/5ths of that.

Somehow Lowry is miles better defensively than Jennings but Sanders and Ilyasova are worse than JV and Gay. And i thought Sanders was a DPOY candidate. I must have missed Lowry's consideration for that.

So AV is given no credit because he's undurable. But JV and Gay are the model of health so they deserve credit. And i agree ... Irving vs Lowry is not in question either.

Finally, I guess by actual facts you mean the ones littered all around your post?
bradley is a point guard and is a sixth man behind rondo. he is not in the discussion of a starting five. playing minutes here and there does not make you a 2.

sanders and ilyasova in terms of talent are <<<< JV and gay. we are discussing talent here, not simply defence.

varejao is known to be injury riddled. JV and gay are not to the same extent. JV is a flipping rookie for gods sake!

u done making irrelevent points now?
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:43 PM   #274 (permalink)
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bradley is a point guard and is a sixth man behind rondo. he is not in the discussion of a starting five. playing minutes here and there does not make you a 2.

sanders and ilyasova in terms of talent are <<<< JV and gay. we are discussing talent here, not simply defence.

varejao is known to be injury riddled. JV and gay are not to the same extent. JV is a flipping rookie for gods sake!

u done making irrelevent points now?
He left one out. You're full of yourself.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:58 PM   #275 (permalink)
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He left one out. You're full of yourself.
you want to actually discuss the topic?
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:53 AM   #276 (permalink)
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He left one out. You're full of yourself.
Lol
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:41 AM   #277 (permalink)
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It seem like we judge bc in two terms split with 4 years each. The first 4 years bc made the playoffs twice which should have been three times if Bosh could have tapped the ball in or if Turk gave a damn. It wasn't bc fault the players didn't step up that year. it more of the players not being in shape or clutching up when it matters

i give him a passing mark building around Bosh who is a great talent but difficult to build around. considering that Raptors team in 06-07 winning hte division title was my favorite raptor team of all time, loved garbo, anthony parker with his 3 point shooting and defense, loved that pacers game when he ripped the ball out of a pacer players hand it was great, jose Calderon steping his game up after a terrible rookie season, tj ford clutch shot against the clippers, bargnanis clutch shot the next game against portland both on the road, Bargnani raining 3's in orlando, plus the fact he was money in his first season especially off the bench which was exciting because we all thought if he is doing this his first season wait tell the future so the potential made even more tantalizing, rasho being rasho, and of course Bosh beasting that season


now its year 3 in the second era or term with the Raptors organisation, the post Bosh era which everyone calls it, we all knew this team took a huge hit losing Bosh and would take 4 or 5 years to recover from that, well year 4 is coming and it seems the Raptors finally have a identity with rudy gay being the leader, with promising young players in ross and jonas, and another proven scorer in derozan even though i prefer to see him traded i still see that he is a asset with value,


so if you ask me does bc deserve another year to prove that he can turn it around, i believe so, a good g.m should be able to turn a team after losing a talent like Bosh in 4 to 5 years, well year 4 is coming, or i like to say to the rest of the nba

winter is coming

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Old 04-26-2013, 07:49 AM   #278 (permalink)
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you want to actually discuss the topic?
Sure, if you upgrade your knowledge,

Bradley isn't a point guard. He's a 2 and replaced Ray Allen. He played some point guard only after Rondo went down. Ilyasova's a 4, Rudy's a 3, so the requirements for their positions are different.

Calling the starting 5's of Toronto and NY a toss-up is laughable fanboy talk. You've absorbed too much Colangelo/ Devlin/ Rautins snake-oil.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:17 AM   #279 (permalink)
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The discussion that Toronto has top 5 talent in the starting unit (in the East) isn't that debatable.

I noticed the discussion was, at one point, to disregard a player like Bradley's defensive capabilities. So does the discussion then focus on offensive capabilities? If so, there's a quite a few inefficient players on this squad (Rudy Gay being one of the main culprits seeing how he can halt an offense all together).

Last time I looked, basketball is a team game. You have to have the parts to field a whole, solid unit that both works with the strengths and weaknesses of the others. In and of itself, that alone is talent.

Anyways, there are currently eight teams ahead of Toronto in terms of talent. They're in the playoffs, we're not. It's really simple. And until this team, plays like a team and utilizes their individual talents for the collective whole, it isn't going anywhere fast.
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:23 PM   #280 (permalink)
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Whats funny is that 30 teams in the NBA have the same lists. You guys make it sound like only Toronto has dud FA signings or ten day contracts.
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