Official Draft Thread: Toronto Raptors pick 20th, 37th, 59th - Page 7
Old 06-09-2014, 07:14 AM   #121 (permalink)
the poster formally known as Quinn

Team Captain
 
Obi-Wan Quinnobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 564
Representing:
Default

You think cleveland would do that in a million years?
Obi-Wan Quinnobi is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 07:24 AM   #122 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 7,121
Representing:
Default

To be honest I'm glad we didn't get the first pick. There's too much pressure to pick the wonderboy Wiggins at first for us. While he's talented, embiid is a better pick, but because of politics we might've lost out.
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 11:55 AM   #123 (permalink)
Has "it"

Senior Member
 
Ataf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Catharines
Posts: 1,794
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataf
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
To be honest I'm glad we didn't get the first pick. There's too much pressure to pick the wonderboy Wiggins at first for us. While he's talented, embiid is a better pick, but because of politics we might've lost out.
Oh no That does sound awful. Wiggins or Embiid. My worst nightmare.
Ataf is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 03:05 PM   #124 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cambridge, ON
Posts: 5,116
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Quinnobi View Post
I would trade our 2016 NYK, 20th and novak for around the 14th pick and get Stauskas

Trade Amir, Ross, Hansborough for Gasol or randolph in a sign and trade

Resign patterson, vasquez and lowry

Buyout salmons

Sign Parson

Pick up Inglis with our 37th

Get a euro with our 59th

Sign a basic big backup centre

Lowry/Vasquez
DeRozan/Stauskas
Parsons/Inglis
(randolph/gasol)/Patterson
Valanciunas/...?
How the heck are we supposed to afford to sign Parsons? He's be getting well over the MLE. And no thank you VERY much to that trade for Gasol/Randolph.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 05:04 PM   #125 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 7,121
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataf View Post
Oh no That does sound awful. Wiggins or Embiid. My worst nightmare.
we'd have to have a completely gutted team to get that first pick, if we were extremely lucky too. So yeah, a really bad nightmare; possibly of the worst kind.
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 05:05 PM   #126 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 7,121
Representing:
Default

yeah i'm not giving up ross for a pf on the decline, and one who can just score, who's also very close to his descent, if not already there.
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 03:53 PM   #127 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 80,220
Representing:
Default

Quote:
The Toronto Raptors continue preparations for the 2014 NBA Draft by holding two pre-draft workouts June 11-12. The team has also scheduled additional workouts June 17 and 19.*The pre-draft workouts will be held on the Raptors’ practice court at Air Canada Centre and closed for public viewing.* Media will have an opportunity for photos, video footage and player interviews following each session.

A member of the Raptors Basketball Operations staff will also be available for comments.A full list of participating players will be released in the morning prior to each workout. Players and workout times are subject to change. Please call the Raptors media information line (416) 815-6111 for the latest information.

Toronto earned the 20th overall pick in this year’s draft after finishing the 2013-14 campaign with a team-record 48 wins. The Raptors also have the 37th and 59th picks in the second round. The 2014 NBA Draft will be held June 26 at Barclays Center in Brooklyn. The first round will be shown live on TSN2 and NBA TV Canada beginning at 7 p.m. NBA TV Canada will continue with coverage of the second round
Additional Pre-Draft Workouts Announced | Toronto Raptors
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 04:21 PM   #128 (permalink)
Keep it simple

Senior Member
 
Dario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,616
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Dario
Default

so TSN2 is not showing the second round? We have to watch it on nbatvcanada?
Dario is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 09:27 AM   #129 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cambridge, ON
Posts: 5,116
Representing:
Default Two Workout Sessions today

First session: Will Sheehey (SF), Cleanthony Early (SF), Jerami Grant (SF), Josh Huestis (SF), Glenn Robinson III (SF) and De'Mon Brooks (PF)

Will Sheehey (SF): 6'7", 194. Thin and not particularly long (6'6" wingspan). Mediocre shooter, frankly pretty much mediocre everything (gets to the line a little, rebounds a little, not much of a passer). Defended well at the college level but doesn't project as a good defender due to his small stature. Projected at 56, 22 years old.

Cleanthony Early (SF): 6'7", 209. A little underweight for SF, but long enough for the position (6'11" wingspan). Very athletic (40" max vert). Good shooter from 3, taking almost half his shots from there, but still gets to the line 5 times a game and converts well from inside the line as well, helping him to a top-5 scoring rate among potential draftees. Solid rebounder with 6 in only 28 MPG. Not a passer, and not a good defender on the perimeter. Tends to get blown by, as he's got the lateral quicks of a PF, but doesn't project big enough to play that position in the NBA. Projected at 34, 23 years old.

Jerami Grant (SF): 6'8", 214 lbs. Legit SF size, 7'3" wingspan. Didn't do the combine, which is strange. Attacks the rim and plays close to the basket, drawing lots of fouls. Mostly because he's got nothing else offensively. Hit only 29% of all his jumpers. Not much of a ball-handler or passer, solid rebounder. Projects to be potentially very good defensively - he has the tools, but didn't really put it all together defensively in college (also hard to judge since he played in a zone defence all year). Big project pick - could be great long term if he can develop a jump shot and figure it out defensively. Projected at 27, 20 years old.

Josh Huestis (SF): 6'7", 213 lbs, 7'1" wingspan. Good size for a SF, good athleticism as well (39" max vert). Not much of a threat offensively - OK shooter from inside and outside the arc, doesn't get to the line much, very limited skill-wise on the offensive end. Very good rebounder, shotblocker from the wing position (almost 2 per game). Solid defender all around - with good lateral quicks and strength, he can defend multiple positions. If he can develop that 3 point shot and become a consistent threat, could be a good role player. Projected at 54, 22 years old.

Glenn Robinson III (SF): 6'7", 211 lbs, 6'10" wingspan. Solid size, very athletic (41" max vert). Not a great shooter (30% from 3), converts well inside the arc but doesn't generate a lot of FT's. OK rebounder, not much of a passing game. Some questions about his toughness and Bball IQ. Tends not to make the most of his athleticism in game. Not a standout defender (neither good nor bad). Projected at 29, 20 years old.

De'Mon Brooks (PF): 6'7", 217 lbs, 6'10" wingspan. Small for a PF, but does not have the perimeter game for a wing. Solid scorer who operates inside a lot (scores almost 20 a game in 26 minutes, with a 60% FG% inside the arc and draws 8 FTA's per game), but can knock down 3's at a very good rate (45% on low volume). Very good rebounder. OK defender at the college level. Will likely not have a future in NBA due to size. Projected at 86, 22 years old.

There are some who are high on Early - I'm the opposite. He's intriguing offensively, but looks to be a disaster on the defensive end if he's already having trouble with both speed and size of college opponents. Grant is a serious long term prospect - immediately could be decent defensively, and has all the tools, but won't be a contributor offensively for years, in all likelihood. Huestis might be a worthwhile gamble at 59 if we didn't grab a wing prospect before then. GRIII - don't really like his in-between game. Not a shooter, but doesn't draw fouls. Not a great defender, rebounder, passer... Doesn't really stand out in any way. Young and athletic though, so might be worth the 37 if he drops that far. Brooks surprised me with his scoring proficiency, but he just doesn't really have an NBA body. Great size for a SF, but he just can't play the position.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 09:36 AM   #130 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cambridge, ON
Posts: 5,116
Representing:
Default Second workout

Sim Bhullar (C), Alex Kirk (C), Murphy Burnatowski (F) and Shawn Glover (F)

Sim Bhullar (C): 7'5", 350 lbs. Huge C. Not even the least bit athletic. Converts well on shots close to the rim. Doesn't do anything else offensively. Poor free throw shooter. Rebounds well (8 per game in 26 minutes) but not as well as you'd expect with that size. 3 blocks per game. No lateral quickness at all and would get eaten alive in the NBA PnR game. Probably a Canadian courtesy call. Projected at 97, 21 years old.

Alex Kirk (C): 6'11", 250 lbs. 7'4" wingspan. Not much of a presence offensively, poor shooter (but still takes 3's - 2 attempts a game at a 20% clip). Doesn't really draw fouls. Strong rebounder and shot blocker. Projected at 89, 22 years old.

Murphy Burnatowski (F): Not really a draft prospect. Canadian courtesy call. Can shoot the 3, but not much else. Not projected. 22 years old.

Shawn Glover (F): See Burnatowski, without the Canadian bit. Not projected, 23 years old.

Nothing to see here.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 09:33 PM   #131 (permalink)
making funny and strange dark trade in his mind !!!

Senior Member
 
Bankiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,550
Representing:
Default

1. before Draft
Boston get Salmons + TH + 37th pick
Toronto get Wallace + 17th pick

Boston shed 8M in salary.
we get a solid defender SF and we buy another 1st pick.

2. Draft Day
Cleveland get 17th + 20th + 59th 2014 + 1st Tor 2015 + 1st NYK 2016 + Novak
Toronto get 1st 2014 + Bennett


3.
select Wiggins



KL/GV/De Colo
DD/Ross
Wiggins/Wallace/Fields
AJ/PP/Bennett
JV/Hayes

we keep the core, get our prodige SF, all we need is a center like Okafor to backup JV.

i know we give up a lot of picks, but a home town superstar has a price.
Bankiz is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 09:39 PM   #132 (permalink)
the boss

Senior Member
 
Aamir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 5,151
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankiz View Post
1. before Draft
Boston get Salmons + TH + 37th pick
Toronto get Wallace + 17th pick

Boston shed 8M in salary.
we get a solid defender SF and we buy another 1st pick.

2. Draft Day
Cleveland get 17th + 20th + 59th 2014 + 1st Tor 2015 + 1st NYK 2016 + Novak
Toronto get 1st 2014 + Bennett


3.
select Wiggins




KL/GV/De Colo
DD/Ross
Wiggins/Wallace/Fields
AJ/PP/Bennett
JV/Hayes

we keep the core, get our prodige SF, all we need is a center like Okafor to backup JV.

i know we give up a lot of picks, but a home town superstar has a price.
LOL
Aamir is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 09:59 PM   #133 (permalink)
Waiting for DD's 1st in game wind mill Dunk

Senior Member

 
halphbreedballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: T.O.
Posts: 4,823
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankiz View Post
1. before Draft
Boston get Salmons + TH + 37th pick
Toronto get Wallace + 17th pick

Boston shed 8M in salary.
we get a solid defender SF and we buy another 1st pick.

2. Draft Day
Cleveland get 17th + 20th + 59th 2014 + 1st Tor 2015 + 1st NYK 2016 + Novak
Toronto get 1st 2014 + Bennett


3.
select Wiggins



KL/GV/De Colo
DD/Ross
Wiggins/Wallace/Fields
AJ/PP/Bennett
JV/Hayes

we keep the core, get our prodige SF, all we need is a center like Okafor to backup JV.

i know we give up a lot of picks, but a home town superstar has a price.
This will only happen if Wiggins refuses to play for Cleveland & only Toronto.
halphbreedballer is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 11:53 PM   #134 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 80,220
Representing:
Default

jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 08:59 AM   #135 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cambridge, ON
Posts: 5,116
Representing:
Default Workouts

Markel Brown (SG), Markel Starks (PG), LaQuinton Ross (SF), Jamil Wilson (F), Clint Capela (PF) & Artem Klimenko(C)

Markel Brown (SG): 6'3", 183 lbs. 6'9" wingspan, 44 inch vertical. A little short for a SG, he's a very nice athlete, long, reminds of Terrence Ross but with a huge wingspan. Shoots the 3 very well (38%), gets to the line pretty well, rebounds well for a guard (5 per game), not a great distributor but not bad for a SG with 3 per game (and only 1.6 TOV's). Also averaged a block and a steal per game so he has a defensive presence, although the scouting report is that he's not always dialed in on that end. Very intriguing late round pick. Projected at 55, 22 years old.

Markel Starks (PG): 6'1", 166 lbs. Small PG, with a little length to help make up for it (6'5" wingspan). Average athletically. Not a great shooter, though not terrible. Gets to the line fairly well and converts. Decent passer. Good and active defender. Projects at 81, 23 years old.

LaQuinton Ross (SF): 6'7", 239 lbs. 7'2" wingspan. Nice big SF. Solid 3 point shooter (35%), not much of an overall scorer but does OK. Gets to the line a good deal to make up for a little inefficiency shooting inside the arc. Rebounds well with 6 per game in 29 minutes. Very little in way of athleticism - not quick, nor a great leaper. Partly due to that, he's only an average-to-below-average defender - doesn't have the strength for PF's, and is a little slow for SF's. Projected at 52, 21 years old.

Jamil Wilson (SF/PF): 6'7", 217 lbs. 7'0" wingspan, 40 inch vert. Athletic tweener. Below average shooter from distance, but not bad (32%). Rebounds alright for a PF, well for a SF. Overpowered defensively against PF's, but decent on the perimeter, in spite of only average lateral quickness for a wing. Not projected, 23 years old.

Clint Capela (PF): 6'11", 222 lbs. 7'5" wingspan. 32" max vert. Not super athletic, but decent for a big man. Very good rebounder (7 in 20 minutes in the French League and Euroleague). Converts well offensively (between 60-70% FG%), though not a good FT shooter. Averaged over a block a game and can be a presence inside, though not an overpowering one yet. Not much range on his shot. Projected at 21, 20 years old. Very much an option at 20.

Artem Klimenko (C): 7'1", 228lbs. 7'4" wingspan. 28" vert. Big C. Quick on his feet, and gets off the floor well enough in game. Not particularly skilled offensively although he produces well enough in the Russian 2nd Division. Can hit his free throws (75%) and has a developing midrange game. Good offensive rebounder. Good defender in screen situations due to his quickness. A lot of unknowns here, due to him playing in Russia, so the competition isn't great. Projected at 38, 20 years old.

Capela is one of my favourites at 20. Rim protector and rebounder that would fit well alongside JV in the future, if there was a third big like Patterson to stretch the floor for each of them for stretches. Could be big enough to play some C as well. Klimenko is a risky pick, but one that could pay off. Wouldn't mind him at 37 if more choice picks like Tavares, Dinwiddie and Inglis are off the board. Certainly would snatch him up at 59 if he fell due to concerns about his citizenship (Russian players have a bit of a history of never coming over after being drafted). Markel Brown could be in the mix at 59.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 11:03 AM   #136 (permalink)
Is wondering when the Patman and JJ will be unleashed?

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,208
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Capela is one of my favourites at 20. Rim protector and rebounder that would fit well alongside JV in the future, if there was a third big like Patterson to stretch the floor for each of them for stretches. Could be big enough to play some C as well. Klimenko is a risky pick, but one that could pay off. Wouldn't mind him at 37 if more choice picks like Tavares, Dinwiddie and Inglis are off the board. Certainly would snatch him up at 59 if he fell due to concerns about his citizenship (Russian players have a bit of a history of never coming over after being drafted). Markel Brown could be in the mix at 59.
I really like Capela as well. If Payne is gone, I wouldn't mind him at all - a very aggressive player, loves contact but can he play with JV? Or are you thinking more back-up and add a stretch 4?
DocHoliday99 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 11:47 AM   #137 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cambridge, ON
Posts: 5,116
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
I really like Capela as well. If Payne is gone, I wouldn't mind him at all - a very aggressive player, loves contact but can he play with JV? Or are you thinking more back-up and add a stretch 4?
I think he can play with JV - both he and JV have potential to add a consistent midrange jumper. But he could also fill in those backup C minutes as well.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 11:56 AM   #138 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 80,220
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Julius Randle will likely need surgery on his right foot after the NBA Draft.

Randle will likely need six to eight weeks of rehab before he's cleared to play, which would force him to miss Summer League in July. But Randle is expected to be ready for the start of training camp in the fall.

As a high school senior in Texas two years ago, Randle missed three months with a fractured right foot. There was a screw placed into his foot that needs to be removed as a precautionary procedure, sources said.

Randle's stock isn't expected to be impacted, as several executives considered it a minor issue.
Julius Randle To Undergo Surgery On Foot - RealGM Wiretap
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 12:42 PM   #139 (permalink)
Dwaneball. That's how we roll...over

OY!!
 
niggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Loch Ness
Posts: 3,457
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Markel Brown (SG), Markel Starks (PG), LaQuinton Ross (SF), Jamil Wilson (F), Clint Capela (PF) & Artem Klimenko(C)

Markel Brown (SG): 6'3", 183 lbs. 6'9" wingspan, 44 inch vertical. A little short for a SG, he's a very nice athlete, long, reminds of Terrence Ross but with a huge wingspan. Shoots the 3 very well (38%), gets to the line pretty well, rebounds well for a guard (5 per game), not a great distributor but not bad for a SG with 3 per game (and only 1.6 TOV's). Also averaged a block and a steal per game so he has a defensive presence, although the scouting report is that he's not always dialed in on that end. Very intriguing late round pick. Projected at 55, 22 years old.

Markel Starks (PG): 6'1", 166 lbs. Small PG, with a little length to help make up for it (6'5" wingspan). Average athletically. Not a great shooter, though not terrible. Gets to the line fairly well and converts. Decent passer. Good and active defender. Projects at 81, 23 years old.

LaQuinton Ross (SF): 6'7", 239 lbs. 7'2" wingspan. Nice big SF. Solid 3 point shooter (35%), not much of an overall scorer but does OK. Gets to the line a good deal to make up for a little inefficiency shooting inside the arc. Rebounds well with 6 per game in 29 minutes. Very little in way of athleticism - not quick, nor a great leaper. Partly due to that, he's only an average-to-below-average defender - doesn't have the strength for PF's, and is a little slow for SF's. Projected at 52, 21 years old.

Jamil Wilson (SF/PF): 6'7", 217 lbs. 7'0" wingspan, 40 inch vert. Athletic tweener. Below average shooter from distance, but not bad (32%). Rebounds alright for a PF, well for a SF. Overpowered defensively against PF's, but decent on the perimeter, in spite of only average lateral quickness for a wing. Not projected, 23 years old.

Clint Capela (PF): 6'11", 222 lbs. 7'5" wingspan. 32" max vert. Not super athletic, but decent for a big man. Very good rebounder (7 in 20 minutes in the French League and Euroleague). Converts well offensively (between 60-70% FG%), though not a good FT shooter. Averaged over a block a game and can be a presence inside, though not an overpowering one yet. Not much range on his shot. Projected at 21, 20 years old. Very much an option at 20.

Artem Klimenko (C): 7'1", 228lbs. 7'4" wingspan. 28" vert. Big C. Quick on his feet, and gets off the floor well enough in game. Not particularly skilled offensively although he produces well enough in the Russian 2nd Division. Can hit his free throws (75%) and has a developing midrange game. Good offensive rebounder. Good defender in screen situations due to his quickness. A lot of unknowns here, due to him playing in Russia, so the competition isn't great. Projected at 38, 20 years old.

Capela is one of my favourites at 20. Rim protector and rebounder that would fit well alongside JV in the future, if there was a third big like Patterson to stretch the floor for each of them for stretches. Could be big enough to play some C as well. Klimenko is a risky pick, but one that could pay off. Wouldn't mind him at 37 if more choice picks like Tavares, Dinwiddie and Inglis are off the board. Certainly would snatch him up at 59 if he fell due to concerns about his citizenship (Russian players have a bit of a history of never coming over after being drafted). Markel Brown could be in the mix at 59.
Like Brown and Capela, but a bit concerned that we may be overloading the roster with a lot of young players and be a bit short on the veteran presence to help bring them along.
niggles is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 01:20 PM   #140 (permalink)
Is wondering when the Patman and JJ will be unleashed?

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,208
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
Like Brown and Capela, but a bit concerned that we may be overloading the roster with a lot of young players and be a bit short on the veteran presence to help bring them along.
That's a valid point. I'm wondering what vet MU is targeting for the team. He was clear he wanted one....an NBA one or an overseas one? Is a vet a vet in this case or NBA specific?
DocHoliday99 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24