The Official Bruno Caboclo Thread - Page 13

Go Back   Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards > NBA Discussion > Toronto Raptors

View Poll Results: good or bad pick?
good 46 58.97%
bad 32 41.03%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2014, 02:36 PM   #241 (permalink)
waiting for next season

Senior Member
 
fantapoppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 635
Representing:
Default

news conference tomorrow at 10:30 for bruno caboclo

https://twitter.com/FAN590/statuses/482591790977921024
fantapoppa is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 02:36 PM   #242 (permalink)
Gam zeh ya'avor

The Gatekeeper
 
MikeToronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,920
Representing:
Default

Why do we care to still talk about it with no information to substantiate any claim?

Why not wait until at least summer league?
MikeToronto is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 02:39 PM   #243 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,787
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
I didnt call you a moron, I said the post was moronic. Big difference.

And the rest of this post of your makes little to no sense.

Why do you keep bringing up Javale McGee, I could care less about Javale McGee.

This kids got long arms, is that why he is such a great pick at 20?

And looking past shortcomings of basically everyone in some form of sports media, people who make their living on providing scouting and information about players not yet drafted. Hell Even CASEY didnt know who kid was 2 weeks ago, I would tend to side more on that in this day and age of social media and the like, Millions and millions of fans, thousands upion thousands of scouts etc, for a player not to be seen or heard of outside of very few clips on the internet to be that genuine thing is alot harder to believe than there being another reason why there is no news on him.
I'm quite aware there is a difference between calling me a moron, and suggesting a post was moronic. That is why you were allowed to continue posting at all yourself. I did not see you saying my post was moronic. What i read was a mischaracterization of positive posts in this thread as being moronic and without any basis. That's false, and the kind of pure bullshit we might see at realGM, not here. There has been no opinion that has been worthy of being outright disregarded and insulted.

If the rest of us are forced to make the effort to figure out what you might be trying to say, then maybe you can try not to go overboard on passing judgment so readily without even trying to consider that there might be more thought involved than just following along with some sort of hype.

Now why was there no news on this kid? It's not that hard to imagine that a poor kid in a huge country where no news comes out of, let alone basketball news, is not going to be well known with so little exposure. Had the draft happened a few months later who knows? Maybe all the spying Canada has been doing on Brazil would have uncovered Bruno's budding talent.

A few months ago Stauskas was thought of as a second round guy, if that. Last night he was drafted 8th. Was it a reach? No, of course not. Would it have been a reach had it happened before the tourney? Well he is the same guy right? If a team liked him for his shooting and expanding offensive arsenal then they should be drafting him at 8 regardless of how much exposure he has had up to any point. It is entirely possible that all things considered, Bruno was the best player available at 20. Best player as to upside, yes, but aside from Napier, upside was what all the picks were about.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 02:44 PM   #244 (permalink)
is excited about the brazilian connection

Member
 
SteveTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Meran, Italy
Posts: 211
Representing:
Default

I have my own idea about this:

MU with BWB scouts BC, and agrees that he will draft the guy (who was not sure to commit to draft, as i have read somewhere else - don't ask me sources, i have read to much in the last day :-) with pick 37.

MU finds a player (Ennis) he likes for the 20th pick (and probably even some backup plan). The days before the draft he receives signals from other teams that are interested in BC (perhaps from BC's agent) and becomes nervous --> he sets up the trade with the grizzlies.

Now Ennis is gone and MU is aware that even OKC could snatch BC, so he gets his job done. Probably the other picks around wasn't than worth the additional salary of Prince.

Some word for Fran Fraschilla: he acted like a dick as soon as the pick was announced, than, after he informed himself, he backpedaled and said he was aware of BC and friends of him have told him, and he thought it would be good to keep an eye on the kid. Such a tool.
SteveTT is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 02:46 PM   #245 (permalink)
Masai Ujiri

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,760
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
Oh, thats what it is.

We can ASSUME that management has done extensive research and scouting and that because our team is the only team, anywhere, that has anything to say about the kid that they must certainly be 100% correct.
You kidding? They're being paid millions and are on the top of their respective fields and you think they rolled a dice to decide on the pick?
He wasn't gonna get past 23 to Utah.
Kirby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 02:50 PM   #246 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,787
Representing:
Default

Butch Carter was on the FAN and said he has known Franny since 1986, and he is not a good talent evaluator.

I think it is fantastic that they kept everything under wraps. The timing was good in that Bruno probably has not had a lot of opportunities to play in any notable way, but still, for the pick not to be tweeted out before it was made was wonderful. The Scouts are doing their job for this team and not worrying about covering their own asses and looking where they might get work next. That point was made by Butch as well.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 02:50 PM   #247 (permalink)
waiting for next season

Senior Member
 
fantapoppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 635
Representing:
Default

If anything, this speaks volumes on how much scouting the Raptors do and Masai's balls to pull the trigger on an unknown draft pick.

Like i mentioned previous post, we now have an athletic 18 year old 6'9 SF with huge upside locked into a restricted free agent contract @ ~1mill/year for 4 years. That's not a bad thing.
If we DID draft him in 2nd round, we only have him on contract for 2 years (unguaranteed) @ less money. But if you're going to invest on a project like this, you might need the full 4 years to realize his potential.

And 4 years down the road if he turns out to be a stud, a good defense player, our starting SF, or our SF off the bench with a decent stat line, you're only paying this guy under 2 mill on 4th year.
That's pretty good in my book

official rookie scale numbers: http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2015

for a team that paid:
Landry fields $5,225,000 for cheer leading,
steve novak 3,750,001 for passing the water bottle,
john salmons $7,580,000 to ride a bench last season.
I have no complaints.

Last edited by fantapoppa; 06-27-2014 at 03:00 PM.
fantapoppa is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 02:52 PM   #248 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,160
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
You kidding? They're being paid millions and are on the top of their respective fields and you think they rolled a dice to decide on the pick?
He wasn't gonna get past 23 to Utah.
says who?

And I do not think they rolled the dice so to speak, I thinkit was a stretch to take him at 20.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:00 PM   #249 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,160
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
I'm quite aware there is a difference between calling me a moron, and suggesting a post was moronic. That is why you were allowed to continue posting at all yourself. I did not see you saying my post was moronic. What i read was a mischaracterization of positive posts in this thread as being moronic and without any basis. That's false, and the kind of pure bullshit we might see at realGM, not here. There has been no opinion that has been worthy of being outright disregarded and insulted.

If the rest of us are forced to make the effort to figure out what you might be trying to say, then maybe you can try not to go overboard on passing judgment so readily without even trying to consider that there might be more thought involved than just following along with some sort of hype.

Now why was there no news on this kid? It's not that hard to imagine that a poor kid in a huge country where no news comes out of, let alone basketball news, is not going to be well known with so little exposure. Had the draft happened a few months later who knows? Maybe all the spying Canada has been doing on Brazil would have uncovered Bruno's budding talent.

A few months ago Stauskas was thought of as a second round guy, if that. Last night he was drafted 8th. Was it a reach? No, of course not. Would it have been a reach had it happened before the tourney? Well he is the same guy right? If a team liked him for his shooting and expanding offensive arsenal then they should be drafting him at 8 regardless of how much exposure he has had up to any point. It is entirely possible that all things considered, Bruno was the best player available at 20. Best player as to upside, yes, but aside from Napier, upside was what all the picks were about.
There is lots of news that comes out of Brazil.

And this is a player playing professional basketball, I find it curious that there is still so little written about this athletic freak.

I question the pick that is a simple enough to see, and I question the hype train. again that is not a complicating thing to understand, i should not have to explain that over and over again.

You can debate the other side of it all you want about how this is a grand design etc, steal of the draft, budding superstar I dont care. I still question the pick, especially at number 20 when other options were available at the time, and there is no word anywhere other than from Raptor brass mouths that there was any interest in the kid at picks in the first round.

At elast I have yet to find any, been sending messaged to friends in the states, they heard nothing, sending messages to friends who follow other teams die hardedly, they heard nothing about their team being interested.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:14 PM   #250 (permalink)
is excited about the brazilian connection

Member
 
SteveTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Meran, Italy
Posts: 211
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
There is lots of news that comes out of Brazil.

And this is a player playing professional basketball, I find it curious that there is still so little written about this athletic freak.

I question the pick that is a simple enough to see, and I question the hype train. again that is not a complicating thing to understand, i should not have to explain that over and over again.

You can debate the other side of it all you want about how this is a grand design etc, steal of the draft, budding superstar I dont care. I still question the pick, especially at number 20 when other options were available at the time, and there is no word anywhere other than from Raptor brass mouths that there was any interest in the kid at picks in the first round.

At elast I have yet to find any, been sending messaged to friends in the states, they heard nothing, sending messages to friends who follow other teams die hardedly, they heard nothing about their team being interested.
Well, i would not expect any team to come out and say: hey, we wanted that guy too.
First, because most are laughing at us, so they feel no need to share the blame
Second, because phoenix would look bad if BC should be a stud and Ennis only a rotation guy
Third, if BC should be that good, everyone who knew it gambled to take him as late as possible. If you do this, you for sure dont tell anyone (especially if he ends up somewhere else).

So i dont think your point proves anything.

I accept your opinion that it was a reach, but accept mine (among others) that are thrilled enough to consider it a good pick.
SteveTT is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:18 PM   #251 (permalink)
a Raps fan

Senior Member
 
creative1mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 1,321
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Some word for Fran Fraschilla: he acted like a dick as soon as the pick was announced, than, after he informed himself, he backpedaled and said he was aware of BC and friends of him have told him, and he thought it would be good to keep an eye on the kid. Such a tool.
That dude made the pic seem so awful, he got a little bit to excited on camera..

but good for MU for making a bold move, Jerry West received lots of criticism when he moved Divac for Kobe.. if you have an eye for talent and you have that feeling in your heart.. go for it.

fans will continue to voice their displeasure with the pic.. but I would rather him be bad then to be drafted by another GM and be a star

Last edited by creative1mm; 06-27-2014 at 03:29 PM.
creative1mm is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:34 PM   #252 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 867
Representing:
Default

i could care less about what fran says. he said he is too raw and wont be in the nba for years and yet he is coming this year. this dude just bull shited cause he didn't want to look dumb cause hes supposed to know "international players".

masai saw him, masai knows talent, im happy with it.
omar36 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:38 PM   #253 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
El Barto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nantes, France
Posts: 226
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
At elast I have yet to find any, been sending messaged to friends in the states, they heard nothing, sending messages to friends who follow other teams die hardedly, they heard nothing about their team being interested.
The same way nobody here heard about the Raptors being interested by this guy until they picked him. Once again, your personal intell doesn't mean nothing...

Quote:
Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun
Lots of teams were interested in the big Brazilian, but he would not work out. Would anyone else have gambled early, we don’t know
He had not any work out because of the promise he received from Masai months ago.

Quote:
Josh Lewenberg ‏@JLew1050
RT @ESPNSteinLine Indications are Caboclo never wouldve made it to 37 so Raps wise to gamble if they like him that much. Other teams in hunt
Quote:
Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun
Some info from a North American source: Utah and Phoenix were hot after Caboclo, would have taken him if on the board with next picks
So I guess some people have just better informations than your friends... I'm shocked.
El Barto is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:38 PM   #254 (permalink)
Landing flight 31

Senior Member
 
0nekhmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brampton Ontario
Posts: 3,106
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveTT View Post
I have my own idea about this:

MU with BWB scouts BC, and agrees that he will draft the guy (who was not sure to commit to draft, as i have read somewhere else - don't ask me sources, i have read to much in the last day :-) with pick 37.

MU finds a player (Ennis) he likes for the 20th pick (and probably even some backup plan). The days before the draft he receives signals from other teams that are interested in BC (perhaps from BC's agent) and becomes nervous --> he sets up the trade with the grizzlies.

Now Ennis is gone and MU is aware that even OKC could snatch BC, so he gets his job done. Probably the other picks around wasn't than worth the additional salary of Prince.

Some word for Fran Fraschilla: he acted like a dick as soon as the pick was announced, than, after he informed himself, he backpedaled and said he was aware of BC and friends of him have told him, and he thought it would be good to keep an eye on the kid. Such a tool.
That actually makes sense.. The 22nd pick would've def been bruno
0nekhmer is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:39 PM   #255 (permalink)
Is hating ISO ball

Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 148
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fantapoppa View Post
If anything, this speaks volumes on how much scouting the Raptors do and Masai's balls to pull the trigger on an unknown draft pick.

Like i mentioned previous post, we now have an athletic 18 year old 6'9 SF with huge upside locked into a restricted free agent contract @ ~1mill/year for 4 years. That's not a bad thing.
If we DID draft him in 2nd round, we only have him on contract for 2 years (unguaranteed) @ less money. But if you're going to invest on a project like this, you might need the full 4 years to realize his potential.

And 4 years down the road if he turns out to be a stud, a good defense player, our starting SF, or our SF off the bench with a decent stat line, you're only paying this guy under 2 mill on 4th year.
That's pretty good in my book

official rookie scale numbers: NBA Rookie Scale - RealGM

for a team that paid:
Landry fields $5,225,000 for cheer leading,
steve novak 3,750,001 for passing the water bottle,
john salmons $7,580,000 to ride a bench last season.
I have no complaints.
Salmons was paid to inbound the ball.
deaner is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:50 PM   #256 (permalink)
elT
brainfarting keyboard eater

Dwane Casey kicks ass!
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 562
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeToronto View Post
Why do we care to still talk about it with no information to substantiate any claim?

Why not wait until at least summer league?
Because long wait, like long arms, does not a stupid ass conversation make, like basketball players! And snooch is either post count padding or playing devil's advocate or just plain spamming. One of the three.
elT is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:53 PM   #257 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 867
Representing:
Default

excited to see him on the roster. many experts thought Giannis wouldnt play in the nba for 2 years yet he played and was surprisingly good. not saying this kid will be as great in his rookie seson but just to have him on the bench learning the language/the plays/the system/getting a feel for nba life is good.
omar36 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 04:20 PM   #258 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,047
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
There is lots of news that comes out of Brazil.

And this is a player playing professional basketball, I find it curious that there is still so little written about this athletic freak.

I question the pick that is a simple enough to see, and I question the hype train. again that is not a complicating thing to understand, i should not have to explain that over and over again.

You can debate the other side of it all you want about how this is a grand design etc, steal of the draft, budding superstar I dont care. I still question the pick, especially at number 20 when other options were available at the time, and there is no word anywhere other than from Raptor brass mouths that there was any interest in the kid at picks in the first round.

At elast I have yet to find any, been sending messaged to friends in the states, they heard nothing, sending messages to friends who follow other teams die hardedly, they heard nothing about their team being interested.
So, you asked your friends in the States if they had heard of them. Unless they're scouts or working in upper management of an NBA team, why would you cite them as sources? Heck, not even the so-called experts knew about BC, which just shows there are still limitations in how armchair GMs make up lists and mocks.

And I don't see anyone here saying that BC is a steal. No one is really hyping him up. All people are saying is that BC has quite a few positive attributes that should help him develop. Whether he becomes a star, a starter, rotation guy, or out of the league remains to be seen. No one here has been throwing any names around. It was Fran V who said that BC is considered the KD of Brazil while Casey said BC reminded him of a young Rashard Lewis but more raw.
Northern Neighbour is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 04:39 PM   #259 (permalink)
On T-Ross Flight 31

Senior Member
 
Ataf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Catharines
Posts: 1,720
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataf
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
Your reading too much between the lines, that certainly doesn't mean if Ennis is there they take him over Bruno and that is not what everyone is saying. What is the franchise going to say and who knows what they would have done? It is what it is. They tried to trade for Ennis great but this Bruno was so heavily scouted that MU wasn't even willing to risk him not being there at 37. I'm not even sure they had one higher than the other but if MU wanted Ennis, they were others other than Pheonix to trade with.
If they got a trade 22nd pick. It'd be Ennis, then Bruno. That's what I'm saying, Bruno had to be scouted more heavy because tape on him is nearly non-existent. You're reading too much into it. I'm not doubting he'll be good but you're having that issue when people get a product and they try to make it out to look like the best because they consumed it. You wouldn't be saying any of that if they ended up getting the 22nd pick and got ennis with the first at 20 and 22nd with bruno, which is what managment and coach said they were trying to do in the first place. Managment doesn't believe ennis<bruno, they literally said the exact opposite by saying Bruno was 2nd on their board to be picked if ennis was avaliable and they actually were able to get the 22nd or w/e pick. Everything you're saying is really just in your head... there isn't anything aside from scouting a guy more than others, (Who'd been promised a spot) who's invisible to the media and internet.
Ataf is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 04:42 PM   #260 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,787
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Butch Carter was on the FAN and said he has known Franny since 1986, and he is not a good talent evaluator.

I think it is fantastic that they kept everything under wraps. The timing was good in that Bruno probably has not had a lot of opportunities to play in any notable way, but still, for the pick not to be tweeted out before it was made was wonderful. The Scouts are doing their job for this team and not worrying about covering their own asses and looking where they might get work next. That point was made by Butch as well.
And Masai came on and said that Fran's line about being two years away from being two years away was exactly what he was saying, along with his scouts. Some of that sentiment might have been to dampen the burn of the Butch comment. Butch is so good at burning bridges. One big reason he never got another job. Masai was not going to add any matches to the fire.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24