Now what? - Page 4
Old 11-27-2011, 06:45 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I definitely see your points... but who are their bigs.... Camby, LA and Oden? Anybody else?
Wallace can play the 4 and Aldridge can play the 5 at times. All they need is a decent backup PF/C such as Darko or Kwame (or even worse talent if Oden is healthy). Think about it, if they rid themselves of Batum, now they are left no backup wing players. Essentially they would be filling one hole, while creating another. It just doesn't make sense. Aldridge (played 39 mins/game last season) is their best player and I cannot see Ed Davis playing too many minutes behind him.

On the other hand, Wallace/Wes Mathews (33-35 mins per game each) are solid players and can definitely have room for another role player like Batum (31 mins) in rotation to take some of those minutes at the wing positions...especially if Wallace moves to the 4. Between just the SG/SF positions you have 96 minutes which is an average of 32 mins between those 3 wing players. Aldridge plays about 40 minutes (not all at PF) and Camby plays 26 (leaving 30 minutes between PF/C). Now, if Oden is healthy (big IF, but they are big on Oden and will re-sign him), he will take all those remaining minutes and leave NONE for Ed Davis. Now Wes Mathews and Wallace will be forced to either play extended minutes, or have dudes like Luke Babbitt (lol) take those remaining minutes.

If you have Aldridge/Camby/Kwame/Wallace, even that is enough to satisfy all 96 minutes at the PF/C positions. And that's if Oden IS NOT healthy. If he is, Ed Davis will be a complete waste of a roster spot and MONEY...
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:02 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Wallace can play the 4 and Aldridge can play the 5 at times. All they need is a decent backup PF/C such as Darko or Kwame (or even worse talent if Oden is healthy). Think about it, if they rid themselves of Batum, now they are left no backup wing players. Essentially they would be filling one hole, while creating another. It just doesn't make sense. Aldridge (played 39 mins/game last season) is their best player and I cannot see Ed Davis playing too many minutes behind him.

On the other hand, Wallace/Wes Mathews (33-35 mins per game each) are solid players and can definitely have room for another role player like Batum (31 mins) in rotation to take some of those minutes at the wing positions...especially if Wallace moves to the 4. Between just the SG/SF positions you have 96 minutes which is an average of 32 mins between those 3 wing players. Aldridge plays about 40 minutes (not all at PF) and Camby plays 26 (leaving 30 minutes between PF/C). Now, if Oden is healthy (big IF, but they are big on Oden and will re-sign him), he will take all those remaining minutes and leave NONE for Ed Davis. Now Wes Mathews and Wallace will be forced to either play extended minutes, or have dudes like Luke Babbitt (lol) take those remaining minutes.

If you have Aldridge/Camby/Kwame/Wallace, even that is enough to satisfy all 96 minutes at the PF/C positions. And that's if Oden IS NOT healthy. If he is, Ed Davis will be a complete waste of a roster spot and MONEY...
You're also assuming Camby is always healthy and that they can sign a Kwame/Darko talent.... likely for the minimum too. I'm also not sold they amnesty Roy as you assume.

Again, I definitely see your arguments, but I don't think it's quite as simple as you suggest. For the last three years they've struggled with health of their bigs.... I don't see Oden as anything solid... dude isn't ready till January at best either. I also remember reading how Wallace doesn't want to play the PF spot any more as it's been hard on his body.... but that was when he was in Charlotte.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:23 PM   #63 (permalink)
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You're also assuming Camby is always healthy and that they can sign a Kwame/Darko talent.... likely for the minimum too. I'm also not sold they amnesty Roy as you assume.

Again, I definitely see your arguments, but I don't think it's quite as simple as you suggest. For the last three years they've struggled with health of their bigs.... I don't see Oden as anything solid... dude isn't ready till January at best either. I also remember reading how Wallace doesn't want to play the PF spot any more as it's been hard on his body.... but that was when he was in Charlotte.
So let's say Oden is not healthy. They have Aldridge/Camby to occupy the PF/C positions. Wallace would still play the 4 for short stints during games. That leaves limited minutes for Ed Davis to play (considering Oden as injured and considering no other bigs are signed). Will those minutes be sufficient for him to develop properly? We know the dude is a raw talent right now, he needs time and the opportunity to play for him to blossom in to the player we might expect. So with no Batum, are you going to have Roy play 32-ish mins game? That's not really a good coaching decision, the dude is on a decline and will never be good again. I do think he will get amnestied as I remember the Blazers asking him to retire a few months ago. So that leaves only Wallace and Wes Mathews at those positions, and at times you might actually NEED Wallace to play the PF position. This is where their lack of depth at the wing positions would hurt them.

The main thing is, Batum is more helpful to that team than Ed Davis simply because Batum will have more of an opportunity to actually play and contribute to the team. Trading Batum for Ed Davis would not help them in any way. It would leave their wing rotations very weak compared to what it is now (a defensive nightmare). Their wing rotations would become worse than their bigs rotation is now.

Last edited by ClutchCity; 11-27-2011 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:30 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Asking roy to retire is different than amnestying roy... they don't want to pay it.

Again, I see your points and they are valid and well thought out, but I still don't agree wholeheartedly with them. I'm no expert though.

You need a lot more than two bigs, but *perhaps* I am selling Oden short though I don't believe I am.
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:13 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Asking roy to retire is different than amnestying roy... they don't want to pay it.

Again, I see your points and they are valid and well thought out, but I still don't agree wholeheartedly with them. I'm no expert though.

You need a lot more than two bigs, but *perhaps* I am selling Oden short though I don't believe I am.
Asking a player to retire for medical reasons means you still pay the player but is not apart of the payroll of that team. I don't think it would be difficult to get a doctor's opinion for Roy to retire due to medical reasons.

They have only 2 bigs yes, but with Wallace's versatility, they essentially have three players who can occupy the PF/C positions. That's if they don't sign another insurance big like Aaron Gray. With no Batum you have only 2 players who can play the wings, and a broken down Roy. Wallace at PF is still a better option than Roy at SG. Who knows, maybe Oden stays relatively healthy and actually shows some promise. You never know. I just don't see Portland trading Batum (who they love) for a player who primarily plays the same position as their best player.

Last edited by ClutchCity; 11-27-2011 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:24 PM   #66 (permalink)
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-If the amnesty clause is still entact:
use it to waive Amir
- Trade Barbosa for a draft pick or young center (Thabeet?)

Bayless/Calderon
DeRozan/ Weems
Kleiza/ Johnson
Bargnani/Davis
Thabeet/Alabi

Hopefully we win no more than 15 games this season. Need a top 3 pick this year.
I would take a chance on Thabeet & Weems is not going to be playing for us this year we need to pick up a defensive sf/SG that can shoot the 3 in the worst way!
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:30 AM   #67 (permalink)
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seconded

why the hell would you use it on amir when you have guys like Calderon and Bargnani on this team? heck, id waive klieza before amir
Kleiza gets paid 4 million a year which is fair, considering he can score, play both forward spots, and has the ability to play defense.I don't like Calderon but his contracts up in 2 years, thus next year, we will have no trouble moving him as his contract will be expiring. On the other hard, amir johnson has 4 years left on his contract wherein he eventually gets paid 7 million. Paying that much for a pf, who really can just rebound and on occcasion score off a pick n roll, is not worth the price.
In short Kleiza and Calderon have a more imminent trade value, whereas A.johnson is pretty much immovable until the last year of his contract.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:32 AM   #68 (permalink)
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i hate to be thinking this way already ... who cares ... see what we have, then bring in short term bench help and tank.

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Old 11-28-2011, 07:42 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Two points... first, do the blazers need size? Yes. Oden is not a certainty and Camby has always been a health risk and with age that only gets more relevant. They're loaded on the wings and we're relatively loaded at PF... seems logical.

Second, even with Ed, teams always are looking for talented size. The basic rule is don't trade big for small and I'm sure the Blazers understand the need for young, healthy bigs after waiting on Oden, Pryzbilla, Camby etc in recent years. Does that mean we shouldn't trade big for small? Maybe, but we also have more holes to fill than most teams.... so it's a gamble we should probably take given Batum's lofty potential.

The blazers might not love the deal, but at the same time, both Davis and Batum are young talented players with alot of room to grow.... I can't see them being totally against it. Thoughts?

thoughts are still that it's a very realistic trade.

I was getting at the fact that the blazers could go for a PF in the draft but they may be low enough that Ed is by far the most attractive option. And as you say as much as they probably like Batum they've got options on the wings.

i've always liked that saying "the best compromise/deal is the one where both sides go away a bit disappointed!" Much like the CBA.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:52 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Asking a player to retire for medical reasons means you still pay the player but is not apart of the payroll of that team. I don't think it would be difficult to get a doctor's opinion for Roy to retire due to medical reasons.

They have only 2 bigs yes, but with Wallace's versatility, they essentially have three players who can occupy the PF/C positions. That's if they don't sign another insurance big like Aaron Gray. With no Batum you have only 2 players who can play the wings, and a broken down Roy. Wallace at PF is still a better option than Roy at SG. Who knows, maybe Oden stays relatively healthy and actually shows some promise. You never know. I just don't see Portland trading Batum (who they love) for a player who primarily plays the same position as their best player.

i also do see where you're coming from, but agree with carp, i think blazers would take the offer seriously and maybe say no in the end, it's a realistic trade tho.

what about adding JJ or kleiza to the offer? Prob not kleiza although his contract is by no means ridiculous. I haven't bothered checking values on the generator but what about:

POR- batum & someone (suggestions?)
TOR- Ed & JJ OR Kleiza
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:26 AM   #71 (permalink)
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We should get Toby's opinion. I know Blazers are very high on Batum and I don't see them trading a player like him for a player playing the same position as Aldridge.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:26 AM   #72 (permalink)
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We should get Toby's opinion. I know Blazers are very high on Batum and I don't see them trading a player like him for a player playing the same position as Aldridge.
Agreed!

Also, just a point of caution.... remember how Bayless used to be untouchable by the Blazers? They wouldn't even take offers that included him.... fancies change, maybe with Wallace there things have changed.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:01 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Brandon Roy likely to be amnestied:

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Amnesty Clause Rumble of the Day: Blazer coaches have been advised that using provision to waive Brandon Roy is strong possibility. AND ...
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New Sota coach Rick Adelman, I'm told, would have level of interest in signing Roy after knee fears led to Wolves' Roy/R. Foye draft swap
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As @HowardBeckNYT notes in latest amnesty piece, releasing Roy wouldn't net cap room for Blazers. But if Paul Allen can stomach cost ...
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If Allen can eat $60-plus mil left on Roy deal, full mid-level exception usage AND re-signing of Oden easier to pull off for GM-less Blazers
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So it must also be said that B-Roy, if soon on open market, will have lotta teams calling ... all thanks to Game 4 fourth quarter vs. Dallas
https://twitter.com/#!/ESPNSteinLine/st ... 6877319168
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:38 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Brandon Roy likely to be amnestied:


https://twitter.com/#!/ESPNSteinLine/st ... 6877319168
Wow... but I do like how amnesty players go through a waiver format.... somebody is getting BRoy for a midlevel....
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:02 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Wow... but I do like how amnesty players go through a waiver format.... somebody is getting BRoy for a midlevel....
Man... if he could find a doctor to work some sort of miracle on him ala Grant Hill he could be an absolute STEAL for someone.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:07 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Roy is done. Yeah, he had one good game, but he was fighting just to have a good game. Over 82 + playoffs, that body won't be able to make it through the grind and be healthy (which is a shame).
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:14 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Roy is done. Yeah, he had one good game, but he was fighting just to have a good game. Over 82 + playoffs, that body won't be able to make it through the grind and be healthy (which is a shame).
Especially with a condensed 66 game schedule. With all the 3 games in 4 nights and each team will have 1 to 3 three games in three nights. He can't hold up with that.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:28 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Roy is done. Yeah, he had one good game, but he was fighting just to have a good game. Over 82 + playoffs, that body won't be able to make it through the grind and be healthy (which is a shame).
how about if you control his minutes, get him coming of the bench play 20 min max
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:44 PM   #79 (permalink)
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how about if you control his minutes, get him coming of the bench play 20 min max
dude still thinks he's a starter.... not going to be easy.... he's too competitive for his own knees.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:52 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Roy sucks. Like I said before, Afflalo is better than Roy.
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