The need to trade Jose - Page 6
Old 02-01-2011, 01:55 AM   #101 (permalink)
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We SHOULD trade Jose..... if we want to finish dead last this season. Because we'll be much worse without him.

Make it so!
A valid point. I concede.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:37 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Any way we can trade Jose & AB 4 Blake & Bynum + fillers?

Maybe we need to throw in Amir?

I just hope DeMar doesn't get pissed off because everyone is getting traded to LA & not him

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Old 02-01-2011, 04:27 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Any way we can trade Jose & AB 4 Blake & Bynum + fillers?

Maybe we need to throw in Amir?

I just hope DeMar doesn't get pissed off because everyone is getting traded to LA & not him
I don't trust Bynum to play a healthy season, think its really worth it? Huge payoff if he did, but I dunno, maybe its just me. Although I can't see the harm in the gamble really.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:39 AM   #104 (permalink)
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yes - the Lakers want Bargnani - absolutely. They desperately want to trade Bynum for Bargnani. I'm not sure how I never saw that before.

I loved how Jose stayed with Collison on most possessions last night. He forced him to the sideline, not letting him turn the corner, but rather forcing a bad pass instead. Unfortunately most of the time Collison had a good pass to Hibbert with ridiculously deep post position.

When Bayless came into the game the Indiana offense took off, with Collison being able to drive and kick regularly. And there was one play where Granger saw Andrea on him and immediately drove for a kickout and 3. There were two consistent forms of resistance last night, and they took the forms of Jose and Ed Davis. I guess you should throw Amir in there as well.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:48 AM   #105 (permalink)
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yes - the Lakers want Bargnani - absolutely. They desperately want to trade Bynum for Bargnani. I'm not sure how I never saw that before.

I loved how Jose stayed with Collison on most possessions last night. He forced him to the sideline, not letting him turn the corner, but rather forcing a bad pass instead. Unfortunately most of the time Collison had a good pass to Hibbert with ridiculously deep post position.

When Bayless came into the game the Indiana offense took off, with Collison being able to drive and kick regularly. And there was one play where Granger saw Andrea on him and immediately drove for a kickout and 3. There were two consistent forms of resistance last night, and they took the forms of Jose and Ed Davis. I guess you should throw Amir in there as well.
I'd also add Wright to that list, although his total lack of shooting ability sours a good defensive impression he leaves. Then again, the entire team forgot how to shoot all of a sudden.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:54 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
We SHOULD trade Jose..... if we want to finish dead last this season. Because we'll be much worse without him.

Make it so!
Finally, a post in this threat that I LIKE!
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:14 AM   #107 (permalink)
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We SHOULD trade Jose..... if we want to finish dead last this season. Because we'll be much worse without him.

Make it so!
all sarcasm aside, does it really matter how well we do or don't do this year? or even next? what matters to me is the long term - say the next 2-4 years - where we try to reconfigure the team, change the identity and set in place some key pieces that will let us contend for deep playoff position. having a mid to low quality starting pg who plays less than adequate defense (that's the best concession i can make. truthfully, i still think it's awful) can't possibly be part of that plan. and paying $9 mil for a mentor that will play 10-15 mins per game is just a waste of cap space. when you're under and trying to rebuild you need to shed these kinds of deals. they make it impossible to bring in new guys. even if losing him costs us 5-8 wins next year i couldn't care less. he's not part of the long term plan of a team that needs drastically improved guard play.


we are terrible with him, and terrible without him. keeping him here to salvage some kind of hope of winning a couple more games is pointless, as is any loyalty or whatever. this is a business, and he's a liability in terms of the need to rebuild. if we really did care abou jose we'd do everyting we could to send him to a team that actually has a chance to accomplish something.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:49 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Finally, a post in this threat that I LIKE!
I feel threatened. And somewhat disappointed.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:57 AM   #109 (permalink)
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How about getting Matt Barnes from LA for Jose?
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:00 AM   #110 (permalink)
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I feel threatened. And somewhat disappointed.
Aw, I like your posts, too. It's the anti-Jose ones that I cry about.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:02 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Aw, I like your posts, too. It's the anti-Jose ones that I cry about.
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:37 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Aw, I like your posts, too. It's the anti-Jose ones that I cry about.
I'm not anti Jose I just think it's time we move on & our record shows that he is not needed here anymore, we are in a drop bottom rebuild it is time to shed big contracts and veteran players, do all the things a rebuilding team needs to do...
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:03 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Jose can't do anything you need a PG to do. Can't penetrate, or break down defense. He is so fucking predictable now. You need a PG that can take over in the last minutes if your team isn't going. That's why I think Bayless should be in the last minutes. He can get to the line or the basket, and not just hold on to the ball for 20 secs and than pass it to AB. He would make a good back up that's about it. In todays league you need an aggressive PG.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:14 PM   #114 (permalink)
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greatest thread ever!!!!
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:21 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
We SHOULD trade Jose..... if we want to finish dead last this season. Because we'll be much worse without him.

Make it so!
Much worse? I highly doubt that. We have a 12 game losing streak. We have 13 wins this season, 5 of those were with Jose coming off the bench. So in other words in two months with Jose starting weve won 8 games. In the last 3 weeks since we last won we've had games of 87pts, 81pts, 72pts and 3 games of scoring over 100pts and 1 of those Bayless started. And we're the worst defensive team in the league, with him being one of our worst defenders.

If we're ANY worse then that, does it really matter at this point?

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Old 02-01-2011, 04:32 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Much worse? I highly doubt that. We have a 12 game losing streak. We have 13 wins this season, 5 of those were with Jose coming off the bench. So in other words in two months with Jose starting weve won 8 games. In the last 3 weeks since we last won we've had games of 87pts, 81pts, 72pts and 3 games of scoring over 100pts and 1 of those Bayless started. And we're the worst defensive team in the league, with him being one of our worst defenders.

If we're ANY worse then that, does it really matter at this point?
Stop bringing facts into this thread..they have no place here! How many times do I have to tell you
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:08 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Jose being one of the worst defenders is not all that factual. He's ahead of Kleiza, Barbosa, Weems and DeRozan, and about even with Bargnani and Bayless, taking into account defensive ratings and defensive win shares. I'm not sure how much such numbers can be taken as fact, particularly since the whole team is dragged down by defensive stats. But I have seen with my eyes, comeback wins thanks to Jose stepping up defensively. I can remember a few years back, when everyone called for him to be on the AS team, seeing him lose games single-handedly by allowing blow-by after blow-by. He was easily the worst defender, not one of the worst. He is a much different player now. He is actually one of the few guys capable of playing good team defense, along with Davis, Amir, Wright, and sometimes Reggie and Sonny.

Does it matter? Marginally. Certainly not in terms of wins and losses, although as a person in the tanking camp I can't think of better assurance of getting results by tanking then having Jose sit. But a young team needs vets that can make something of the system and lead a team forward. If we can find that in some form other than Jose, then I'll be all gangbusters. As things stand, Bargnani, Kleiza and Barbosa are not good fits for such a role. So until I see something beyond those guys, and until I see a solid backup pg in place, I'd say the rush to trade Jose could be something that bites us hard in the ass. Maybe not. But considering the importance of the position, and how often not having a backup that can contribute has bitten us in the ass already, I worry about seeing just that happen again, and needlessly.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:36 PM   #118 (permalink)
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oh there is certainly a need.

and i would be quite happy if kleiza, barbosa and weems were all gone as well, but their contracts don't warrant the same level of urgency.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:32 PM   #119 (permalink)
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ok - explain the urgency. To me we could be looking at getting some real value back by waiting until the deadline next year. At some point we are going to want to get real pieces for the puzzle right? You can't have nothing but picks, not that I would be utterly dismayed by a trade of Jose for picks. I just think you have to give some chance for a sense of structure taking hold, and I don't see Kleiza or Barbosa providing that at all.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:34 PM   #120 (permalink)
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ok - explain the urgency. To me we could be looking at getting some real value back by waiting until the deadline next year. At some point we are going to want to get real pieces for the puzzle right? You can't have nothing but picks, not that I would be utterly dismayed by a trade of Jose for picks. I just think you have to give some chance for a sense of structure taking hold, and I don't see Kleiza or Barbosa providing that at all.
urgency is likely too strong a word. that said, the sooner we can move to change the identity, and the sooner we can move the parts that don't fit long term, the sooner we can move in the right direction. his salary is just dead weight. if we move it now, it just opens up more options.
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