The need to trade Jose - Page 3
Old 01-30-2011, 01:57 PM   #41 (permalink)
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And how about trading Bargnani?
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:00 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Right now I see interior D as the biggest problem and Bargnani just provides no resistance. You expect to play adequate defense with a centre like that?
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Old 01-30-2011, 03:29 PM   #43 (permalink)
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who in their right mind would want jose and Bargnani unless we trade with d-league teams FACEPALM
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:14 PM   #44 (permalink)
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If they add a rookie contract to take over the starting role, then it's not an outrageous amount for the position. A position that counts more than any other.

And the longer he stays here the easier it will be to trade that contract, and get value for it, rather than having to take some other kind of garbage in return, or sweeten the deal with picks or something.
I agree with you on that it would make no sense to rush and take in an ugly contract. For instance, if the Hawks offer Pachulia and Bibby, I would decline. Why? The 3 years left in Zaza's deal. However, if Atlanta offers Bibby and an expiring then I'll pull the trigger immediately. We would relieve ourselves of 10.5 million in 2012-2013, a year in which we can actually make some noise.
Basically, I would make the move on any trade that involes the Raptors getting back a player who has 1-2 years left on his deal.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:16 PM   #45 (permalink)
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And how about trading Bargnani?
Oh please. Just a 5 game streak of Bargnani dropping 25+ for everyone to bring out the Nowitzki comparisons. Is he a primary scorer? No. But can he became a solid complimentary piece in the near future? yes.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:26 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Jose is averaging 8.5 assists which is tied for 6th in the league trade him now well his value is still decent.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:15 PM   #47 (permalink)
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How competetive have we been the last three seasons? Where have we gone with Jose the last 5 seasons? And this "we have no problem scoring" stuff isn't nesessarily just because of him, in fact when he's been hurt this season we've scored just fine, last season we had by far our best stretch when he was hurt and our offense didn't really suffer.

And by the way, our last 11 games we're averaging right around 96ppg, so not exactly lighting the world on fire. We've had games of 72points, 87pts, 94pts, 81pts, 79pts. To be honest without Barbosa this team sucks on offense with or without Jose.
When hes not playing we have no problem scoring?? are you kidding me, have you watched the beginning of the season when jose got injured and bayless and barbosa were running the point, we looked like a bunch of 3rd graders learning how to pass to each other, the turnovers were crazy. and where have we gone with jose the last 5 seasons? the same place with every other player on this team. Hes not the only one to blame, and id trade Bargs over jose anyday, Bargs can score big deal, but hes the crappiest person on the other side and he doesnt rebound. On friday amir did a better job guarding bogut at the end than Bargs did. So i dont knwo why peopel are targeting jose as the worse defender on the team, atleast he has improved form last year. Bargs is still the guy who will only score, but not rebound or defend
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:17 PM   #48 (permalink)
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until Jose starts turning the corner again on pick and rolls instead of settling for a 18ft jumper....I'm all for trading him
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:42 PM   #49 (permalink)
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How did Jose become the scapegoat once again? This team has been horrible lately, but Jose has been one of the more consistent guys out there. Look at DD and AB and how theyve played lately. In comparison Jose has been great.

By trading Jose we get rid of:
- The only guy on the team that can consistently hit a three (only one shooting over 40% from 3)
- The only guy on the team who can run an offense (Barbosa and Bayless are chuckers).
- The guy who is averaging most steals in this team that sucks in defense (I would also like to see a stat of whose taking most charges of the team, Jose would be in top-3 for sure)
- The guy who is helping young guys become better by giving them the ball in right situations (Amirs offensive number would take a huge dive and DD is also getting a lot of good well timed passes on breaks and coming of the screen)
- A guy that is actually looking decent in defense, despite his lousy reputation. We have no good defenders on this team, but based on this season Jose is far from the worst.
- A guy that can teach young guys about basketball and also how to handle things outside the court professionally

He is definately not a star PG, but he is one of our best players. Until we get an actually talented young PG, there is no point in trading him (and probably not then either). Yes we are tanking, but if we trade Jose for anything he might get us at the moment, watching the defeats is gonna become so much harder as we will not only suck at defense, but our offense will be so much worse too.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:42 PM   #50 (permalink)
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i think jose could go by the deadline, but andrea will be here until either his contract is up or a new GM steps in
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:05 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Let me re-iterate what some have already said here - Jose is not the biggest problem we have, at either end of the floor. In fact, having just suffered through the taped game vs. Wolves, I didn't see huge problems with Bargs defense either, especially in the post. Raps held the home team to very respectable percentages and clearly lost on a ton of wide-open, makeable shots they have missed. And the idea of Bayless running the team makes me cringe...
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:24 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Ya and start Bayless? Why don't we put Sonny at point too? Jose is the damn glue on this team.
+1

Jose's having one of the best years of his career; he's near his high for assists and ranks 7th in the league, he's 2nd in assist-to-turnover ratio and is averaging a new high for steals and rebounds. The only thing I'm disappointed with is that his shooting percentages from the floor and moreover from the line have dropped the past couple of years.

But really, he's the heart and soul of the team. He helps keep the guys motivated and focused and knows how to run a team pretty damn well. He's absolutely a starter in this league. Anyone who saw how we played without him knows how important he is.
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:27 PM   #53 (permalink)
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what about changing the coach nstead of the players !

loveland triano don't match with our guys since he is here. the record his not better and worse than o'brien (pacers) record, and we still have him as our coach, and the system doesn't work.

we have a young team, and the two only vet who can lead this team are jose and reggie right now. reggie is out. and jose is injur. so lets face the reality for two second.
even if i don't like jose, he do pretty well right now.
but the gameplan does not work, face it.

i don't like Bargs alone in the world game, but that is my opunion. he is lost (not seems) when it gets about rebound and compete to get the ball. yes it's is weakness. but he is selfish too.
no a guy you want.
if you compare to jose, you see jose try every game, even if he make bad decision, or can not handle the ball very well.
jose is one of the best 15 pg in the league. you can say what you wnat, but ask yourself if we can land one of the pg above him, and i'm not sure it's possible.

so keep him as our backup if we can land a pg by draft. (i'm not sure of that)

if we trade jose, what can you have in return. with the new CBA and the lockout comming, wich team (exept contender) will want him.

so the situation is not good to trade him. not before the end of the season, and not before we know what we can have with the draft.

instead trade bargs, he has some value, and you can pair kleiza and his contract with him + TPE, and bring back some asset : maybe one SF who can start and defend + young prospect + 1 more draft pick.

so if i were BC Bargs is the solution to make a great deal for the futur. not jose right now.

a wallace-like player and a batum-like player + one draft pick will be fine.

a trade-like :
bargs + tpe for battier + patterson + 1 first round pick 2011, that will be better for us.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:44 PM   #54 (permalink)
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When hes not playing we have no problem scoring?? are you kidding me, have you watched the beginning of the season when jose got injured and bayless and barbosa were running the point, we looked like a bunch of 3rd graders learning how to pass to each other, the turnovers were crazy. and where have we gone with jose the last 5 seasons? the same place with every other player on this team. Hes not the only one to blame, and id trade Bargs over jose anyday, Bargs can score big deal, but hes the crappiest person on the other side and he doesnt rebound. On friday amir did a better job guarding bogut at the end than Bargs did. So i dont knwo why peopel are targeting jose as the worse defender on the team, atleast he has improved form last year. Bargs is still the guy who will only score, but not rebound or defend
Sorry but look at this team the last 3 weeks and tell me we're alot better offensively then we were when Jose was out. Ultimately we've been roughly the same if not worse now. And we won some games, now we're not winning and our offense looks worse the last 3 weeks then it has in a few years. Take a look at the ppg i put up and that's with Jose starting. It's been horrible. And to top it off he still sucks on D, even with the slight improvement in that department.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:48 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Jose is averaging 8.5 assists which is tied for 6th in the league trade him now well his value is still decent.
And i still have some doubts on his value even being decent. But he is tradeable. And yet his value will probably never be this high again. Do it by the end of next summer or it'll be regretted down the road imo.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:22 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I could be wrong but isn't Jose 2/1 assist to turn over in the last few games. His turn over numbers should be a lot worse too, they usually give it to the last touch, so he snakes his way out of being accountable for some of those brutal post passes.

Bargs has looked brutal on D. Bogut then Love and Darko had their way with him. He has taken to hedging guards for no reason, leaving these guys wide one in the center of the key. Dude your guarding the other giant white guy!?! He did it twice in the first quarter in both games
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:26 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Assist to TO ratio= extremely safe, predictable
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:39 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Jose must go away for the sake of the Raptors...
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:52 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Sorry but look at this team the last 3 weeks and tell me we're alot better offensively then we were when Jose was out. Ultimately we've been roughly the same if not worse now. And we won some games, now we're not winning and our offense looks worse the last 3 weeks then it has in a few years. Take a look at the ppg i put up and that's with Jose starting. It's been horrible. And to top it off he still sucks on D, even with the slight improvement in that department.
We were were worse offensively when Jose was out
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:53 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Assist to TO ratio= extremely safe, predictable
Yet again, what does this mean?

How is making a pass predictable? I dunno.

Perhaps the offense Jose is running is predictable.
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