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View Poll Results: If we could only keep one of them, who should it be?
Jose Calderon 20 27.78%
Kyle Lowry 52 72.22%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-28-2012, 11:59 AM   #61 (permalink)
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if we trade lowry carp and raptor123 will run this forum along with the other 13 members that voted to keep caldy.

i'd be done as a raptor fan too.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:22 PM   #62 (permalink)
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If Jose, DD and Bargs are starting again next season it will be very very very very sad
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:35 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Order of needing to be traded: B.C.... Calderon..................................Lowry.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:48 PM   #64 (permalink)
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if we trade lowry carp and raptor123 will run this forum along with the other 13 members that voted to keep caldy.

i'd be done as a raptor fan too.
You are so far behind.....we should never have traded for Lowry.....we should have used that 1st round pick for a SF . Here we are blowing hot air about Calderon vs Lowry........its too bad for Lowry because its the 3rd time hes been the odd man out. I dont blame Lowry i blame BC.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:35 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I'm not really happy with either Calderon or Lowry. Right now we should be focused on tanking hard for the highest chance at Andrew Wiggins and keep whichever PG gets us there.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:36 PM   #66 (permalink)
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if we trade lowry carp and raptor123 will run this forum along with the other 13 members that voted to keep caldy.

i'd be done as a raptor fan too.
I'd miss you but just because I advocate trading Lowry doesn't mean we can't be friends. The guy just isn't as good as he's been hyped here. His injuries will slow him down and smallish PG's just don't age well in this league beyond the exceptions.

Raptor123 already runs part of this forum with the way he has many of you gritting your teeth everytime he's been shown to be right!

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Old 12-28-2012, 02:32 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Lowry has not proven to be a better player than Jose. What has he done to prove that he is better in some people's eyes? Better talent, sure, but he is not a better player. He has proven in the small sample size with the Raps so far that he is a chucker, tries to beat teams on his own, does not have much chemistry with anyone on the floor (especially with our supposed best player AB). Sorry, but to me he is not a better player. He still needs to prove himself. Like I said, he has the talent, but he has to get better as an NBA player.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:43 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Guys, once again, you are probably sharpening your seppuku equipment for nothing. Relax and enjoy the holidays.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:44 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Lowry has not proven to be a better player than Jose. What has he done to prove that he is better in some people's eyes? Better talent, sure, but he is not a better player. He has proven in the small sample size with the Raps so far that he is a chucker, tries to beat teams on his own, does not have much chemistry with anyone on the floor (especially with our supposed best player AB). Sorry, but to me he is not a better player. He still needs to prove himself. Like I said, he has the talent, but he has to get better as an NBA player.
12 shots per game in 33min is a chucker now?
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:47 PM   #70 (permalink)
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12 shots per game in 33min is a chucker now?
No, it isn't.

But answer me a simple question - who is better at keeping the rest of the team involved in offence, Jose or Lowry?
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:52 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Order of needing to be traded: B.C.... Calderon..................................Lowry.
Brian Burke has done a great job turning round a dead franchise in a city that is historically pretty hard to win in as a Hockey player...in the modern age anyhow. It's more complex than you are giving credit.

Toronto was 6-8 points out of 4th I believe last year, thats three-4 wins. th NHL is tight. Toronto has the best farm system out there, or close to it, all built by burke. th AHL team is killing it, and the main squad has 3-4 really good young players, and three top forwards in grabovski, Lupol, and Kessel.

So ya, nice avatar.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:00 PM   #72 (permalink)
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No, it isn't.

But answer me a simple question - who is better at keeping the rest of the team involved in offence, Jose or Lowry?
to be honest it's far too early to say. When healthy i believe Lowry can do a fine job while also scoring, rebounding, getting to the line. At the start of the season before he got hurt nobody had a problem with the way he was playing, other than a few that suck Calderon's balls. Calderon then started several games and as a team we stunk. As a team, several players were playing selfishly at times and holding onto the ball far too much, even with Calderon starting in november. The team as a whole looked awful, which includes with Jose starting in November. With guys like Derozan, Bargnani, Kleiza the ball would die with them. Lowry would give the ball up early in the shot clock and someone would hold onto the ball and throw up though shots, he rarely got the ball back in the first half of games, so the lack of ball movement was on everyone as a team imo. For some reason Casey started making people more accountable again after that west coast road trip and the focus was back on defense and that is by far the main reason we've won games lately, close ones mostly. I just think the whole team, from the bench to the starters are just a lot more focused and tired of losing (as DD said). It has a lot less to do with one or two players than it has to do with the team top to bottom being a lot more focused at both ends and being held accountable. That and Casey finally has started to clue in on better rotations, no 2PG lineup etc.... and is coaching like he did last season.

Last edited by jeffb; 12-28-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:04 PM   #73 (permalink)
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ugh..... Lowry was awesome at the beginning of the season, he just doesn't seem to run the team well, im sure he can learn if he's interested. Lets hope he is.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:06 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Brian Burke has done a great job turning round a dead franchise in a city that is historically pretty hard to win in as a Hockey player...
Until he gets a real Goaltender and makes the playoffs regularly it's too early to say he's turned anything around.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:10 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Reading some posts im convincing myself it could be a good thing to trade Lowry.

I was thinking about the possibility to blow up anything (like a fire sale) to stockpile picks.

Trade Lowry for a high pick
Trade DD for a high pick
Trade Calderon for a bad contract and a high pick (like the cavs did with baron)
Amnesty Bargs and Load another bad contract for a high pick
Trade Davis for a pick

Keep Ross, Lucas III, JV and the other players that are not worth a buck and tank hard next year.

With some luck if its not our pick, its one of the traded picks (if they are protected like ours with OKC we will receive multiple picks --> we end dead last and lower the chances other teams can keep their picks).

Last but not least, avoid to be bottom 3 this year, with some luck we can be around 7-8th in the standings (at this point buy back the pick, i dont think it will be this expensive in a weak draft ... in case we get unlucky and get a top3 ).

This is my way for a rebuilding and hard tanking for the stacked '14 class.

Last edited by SteveTT; 12-28-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:11 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveTT View Post
Reading some posts im convincing myself it could be a good thing to trade Lowry.

I was thinking about the possibility to blow up anything (like a fire sale) to stockpile picks.

Trade Lowry for a high pick
Trade DD for a high pick
Trade Calderon for a bad contract and a high pick (like the cavs did with baron)
Amnesty Bargs and Load another bad contract for a high pick
Trade Davis for a pick

Keep Ross, Lucas III, JV and the other players that are not worth a buck and tank hard next year.

With some luck if its not our pick, its one of the traded picks (if they are protected like ours with OKC we will receive multiple picks --> we end dead last and lower the chances other teams can keep their picks).

Last but not least, avoid to be bottom 3 this year, with some luck we can be around 7-8th in the standings (at this point buy back the pick, i dont think it will this expensive in a weak draft ... in case we get unlucky and get a top3 ).

This is my way for a rebuilding and hard tanking for the stacked '14 class.
Booooooooooooo!!!
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:23 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Booooooooooooo!!!
My problem is that i can't see a way to get better.

Say we trade Bargs and Calderon for a good SF (say Iggy)

than our lineup will be:

Lowry, LIII
DD, Ross
Iggy, AA, Pietrus, Fields, Kleiza
Davis, Kleiza, Amir
Gray, JV

Sorry, but bar an explosion from Ross and JV this team means treadmill with first round playoff exits for years to come, and if lowry keeps up with his injuries we are one injury away from the 12th-14th in the standings. At this point, if the '14 is stacked, why not tank hard?
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:24 PM   #78 (permalink)
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My problem is that i can't see a way to get better.

Say we trade Bargs and Calderon for a good SF (say Iggy)

than our lineup will be:

Lowry, LIII
DD, Ross
Iggy, AA, Pietrus, Fields, Kleiza
Davis, Kleiza, Amir
Gray, JV

Sorry, but bar an explosion from Ross and JV this team means treadmill with first round playoff exits for years to come, and if lowry keeps up with his injuries we are one injury away from the 12th-14th in the standings. At this point, if the '14 is stacked, why not tank hard?

Because tanking is stupid.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #79 (permalink)
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My problem is that i can't see a way to get better.

Say we trade Bargs and Calderon for a good SF (say Iggy)

than our lineup will be:

Lowry, LIII
DD, Ross
Iggy, AA, Pietrus, Fields, Kleiza
Davis, Kleiza, Amir
Gray, JV

Sorry, but bar an explosion from Ross and JV this team means treadmill with first round playoff exits for years to come, and if lowry keeps up with his injuries we are one injury away from the 12th-14th in the standings. At this point, if the '14 is stacked, why not tank hard?
I think Ross and JV are capable of being much better... and adding Iggy would be huge. One of the best two-way players in the game that makes others better and can be fit with many different types of players.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:27 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Because tanking is stupid.
And what we are doing is more intelligent?

I know that tanking is not a reliable option, but perhaps we can pull a okc?

Everything is better than this madness, its depressing.
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