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View Poll Results: If we could only keep one of them, who should it be?
Jose Calderon 20 27.78%
Kyle Lowry 52 72.22%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Finally BC trying to fix his blunder by trading away Lowry for a first round pick. Finally doing the right fucking thing by keeping Calderon. Calderon wants to stay in Toronto the whole NBA knows that so why would anyone give up anything for a few months to rent Calderon only to see him leave.

I hate to say I am right ....but i have been around this game too long so what the hell guys just thank me by just kissing me where the sun does not shine......I am right again.......lol

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Old 12-27-2012, 02:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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It was written by Sam f***ing Smith - take what he said with a bag full of giant grains of salt.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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if they trade lowry and keep jose i'm done as a Raptors fan. this team has absolutely no long term vision.
+1
If true....i'm done
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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This organization is such a joke if this is true. A few games won against undermanned, or crappy teams does not make this Joses team. It still amazes me how much our fans and media overreact to one game or a stretch of games and put the blinders on. I used to too, but now I see through the organizations BS and call it like it is. If we end up getting jack all for Jose this year, and Lowry next year, then whats the point in following the team? They clearly have no aspirations to win, so why bother as fans to spend our money when the organization isnt even trying to win?
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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This organization is such a joke if this is true. A few games won against undermanned, or crappy teams does not make this Joses team. It still amazes me how much our fans and media overreact to one game or a stretch of games and put the blinders on. I used to too, but now I see through the organizations BS and call it like it is. If we end up getting jack all for Jose this year, and Lowry next year, then whats the point in following the team? They clearly have no aspirations to win, so why bother as fans to spend our money when the organization isnt even trying to win?
I agree our organization gave away a first pick for head case Kyle Lowry....hes been cast away by 2 other teams.....both times losing or failing to be the guy at the pg position. Jose Calderon at 31 is a better pg then Lowry. Get Lowry out of here while we can. Its strike 3 for Kyle we should have traded away our first round pick for a Small Forward. Ball dont Lie i give you a +1 good job !!!!
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I hate this team. The media has been doing everything they can to make Jose into a viable player again, even though he is a known failure.

Jose, Colangelo and Bargnani must be off this team for next season. Period.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:53 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Funny thing. I just thought about it last night. I think there is no chance that any GM will be stupid enough to take Jose and Bargs and give up decent value in return, I have a feeling it will be Lowry+Bargs in a trade. I won't be surprised.
I like DC as a coach, but you can't expect anything good from this team if your boss is looking for a new PG every year while we have a more than serviceable one.
This team should have gone for a SF or PF during the summer, but now it's too late to salvage.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I agree our organization gave away a first pick for head case Kyle Lowry....hes been cast away by 2 other teams.....both times losing or failing to be the guy at the pg position. Jose Calderon at 31 is a better pg then Lowry. Get Lowry out of here while we can. Its strike 3 for Kyle we should have traded away our first round pick for a Small Forward. Ball dont Lie i give you a +1 good job !!!!
You clearly didnt read my post. And dont you ever get tired of typing the same propoganda over and over and over? You remind me of BC at the start of every season promising the fans the playoffs, and how much the team has improved.

Though the message under your name made me laugh the first time I saw it, so I'm not as annoyed reading the exact same post as all of your other ones for the 10000th time.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Jeff and 'trane gone at the same time? Wow, Christmas comes but twice a year.

Seriously, though, if they went ahead and traded Lowry, it wouldn't be because of the way Calderon is playing at the moment. As many have noted previously, Jose is a well-known commodity and Lowry definitely didn't get enough time with the new teammates to seriously evaluate the chemistry.

So, unless the whole thing is complete BS, here's what I think might be happening:

1. Lowry has completely soured on the team and demanded a trade.
2. They are so desperate to move Bargs they see Lowry as the only way to do it.

Either doesn't sound too plausible, really, so I don't believe Lowry is going to be traded.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:11 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
You clearly didnt read my post. And dont you ever get tired of typing the same propoganda over and over and over? You remind me of BC at the start of every season promising the fans the playoffs, and how much the team has improved.

Though the message under your name made me laugh the first time I saw it, so I'm not as annoyed reading the exact same post as all of your other ones for the 10000th time.
Thanks No matter how everyone else twists it.... no matter who is the new flavour (pg) of the year.......no matter how many times i say it .....you say it thats its the 10000th time........fans still just cant figure it out lol ....Jose Calderon is the guy on the point until we draft a point guard....

Its so simple i say it over and over and over and many on here just dont get it !!!!
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:33 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
This organization is such a joke if this is true. A few games won against undermanned, or crappy teams does not make this Joses team. It still amazes me how much our fans and media overreact to one game or a stretch of games and put the blinders on. I used to too, but now I see through the organizations BS and call it like it is. If we end up getting jack all for Jose this year, and Lowry next year, then whats the point in following the team? They clearly have no aspirations to win, so why bother as fans to spend our money when the organization isnt even trying to win?
BC looking to shop Lowry might be true, but I'd be surprised if it had anything to do with Jose and his play recently. I would say the more likely explanations:

1. Lowry being a malcontent in the lockerroom. Either calling out the coach, other players calling out him, etc. Raptors have proven to have zero tolerance for players stepping out of line, ie James Johnson

2. Trading Lowry is probably the right move anyways. This team really has two logical actions to take this summer, either give Lowry a huge extension or trade him. Playing Lowry on a 1 yr deal would be a terrible decision. If he doesn't take an extension we have to treat it as if he's leaving the next summer, which in all liklihood he wants to, Lowry is an uber competitive guy who likely wants to spend his best years on a playoff team. The thing is though that I wouldn't even want to give him a max extension anyways. That's locking ourselves down to a bad, mediocre team with tons of heavy contracts, plus Lowry in no way is worth the max. On top of all this is the Wiggins factor. A Canadian prospect being ranked as undisputed #1, future superstar type of guy in his draft, is literally once in a lifetime type of event. Ownership likely knows that if they get Wiggins and he has a career somewhere between Durant and Carmelo, the financial implications would be insane. Even if finishing dead last only gives the team a 25% chance at 1st overall, one has to think if there's any season ownership wants to tank as hard as possible, it's next year

So if the team is fairly committed to trading Lowry next summer, why not do it now? Lowry's value will be higher at the deadline than next summer and then they get to tank for a top 3 pick the rest of this year to draft Anthony Bennett, who doesn't have the hype of Wiggins but could still end up 1st-3rd overall this draft in a 2006 year with a bunch of equally ranked players. Personally he reminds me of Larry Johnson and even Charles Barkley-lite - I could see BC selling MLSE that he indeed sees Bennett as a future perennial all-star and huge money making machine for him as a Canadian Raptors superstar, and if they happen to get both Wiggins and Bennett, even better. Trading Lowry could also help the Raptors get Bennett by giving them assets, like maybe they could have a plan where they get a few draft pick from Utah (GSW 1st, UTA 1st) for Lowry at the deadline, then eventually trade Davis for a lottery pick, then if Bennett falls to 5-8, combine everything to move up. If BC can secure Bennett and tells them 'now we're going to get Wiggins too' it might be enough for ownership to extend him a year

Last edited by The MVP of West Hollywood; 12-27-2012 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:57 PM   #32 (permalink)
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This is just stupid. Could have traded for a SF with that first round pick instead of chasing for "superstar" point guards. Hope it's just rumours or else it's a ducked up situation.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Jeff and 'trane gone at the same time? Wow, Christmas comes but twice a year.
i didn't say i'm leaving, just that i would no longer be a fan. it's amazing how people hang around this place, even though no one likes them. sometimes they even make polls at other sites to show how much they want to stay.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:08 PM   #34 (permalink)
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i didn't say i'm leaving, just that i would no longer be a fan. it's amazing how people hang around this place, even though no one likes them. sometimes they even make polls at other sites to show how much they want to stay.
Ouch. Do you really want to go there?
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:15 PM   #35 (permalink)
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if they trade lowry and keep jose i'm done as a Raptors fan. this team has absolutely no long term vision.
To me, maxing out Lowry this summer or riding him on a 1 yr deal just for the chance to resign him, would be the greater sign of having no long term vision.

A team with long term vision trades Lowry at the deadline IMO. As their vision would include seeing there's nothing good that can come out of a "max contract or he leaves in FA" situation that Lowry will represent starting next summer.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:34 PM   #36 (permalink)
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It's about asset management from here on out. We're not winning a championship anytime soon and Lowry can't stay healthy enough to take us anywhere. BC gambled that Lowry would have a huge year, thus cranking up his value and he lost that gamble. I'm actually glad he took that risk and was willing to peddle him at high value but it's just not worked out because of his mounting injuries.

Jose is not the longterm answer either but I do like the idea of Jose mentoring a young draftee way more than I do Lowry in that role.

Things never work out here, it's just unfortunate.... but I love Colangelo's creativity with his Lowry gamble.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:46 PM   #37 (permalink)
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To me, maxing out Lowry this summer or riding him on a 1 yr deal just for the chance to resign him, would be the greater sign of having no long term vision.

A team with long term vision trades Lowry at the deadline IMO. As their vision would include seeing there's nothing good that can come out of a "max contract or he leaves in FA" situation that Lowry will represent starting next summer.
Sorry MVP.... but letting Lowry go and then PRAYING that we land Wiggins is NOT "vision". It's insanity.

You may as well buy $100 in lotto tickets, quit your job and hope that you win.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:19 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Sorry MVP.... but letting Lowry go and then PRAYING that we land Wiggins is NOT "vision". It's insanity.

You may as well buy $100 in lotto tickets, quit your job and hope that you win.
It's not necessarily about Wiggins. We'd get assets for Lowry. For example the trade everyone seems to agree fits the best is dealing him to Utah for their 1st and GSW's 1st. That gives us two draft picks, in the 14-23ish range. We can either get 2 talented players with those picks or combine them, maybe even with Davis, to get a top 10 pick and a player to add to our core. Secondly, the 2014 draft is not about Wiggins. The Wiggins high school class is being considered as potentially legendary and once a decade caliber like 2003. Jabari Parker is considered a superstar prospect, both Harrison twins, Julius Randle, Aaron Gordon, Kasey Hill are all being looked at as star talents. Also IMO Mario Hezonja is the best Euro prospect since Pau Gasol. It's a loaded class and anybody picking top 5 or 6 likely has multiple star talents on the board.

Then the difference between maxing out Lowry and trading him is significant in terms of cap flexibility going forward, which we badly need with all the bad contracts BC will have left us with on his way out the door

I actually think the whole 'Tank and pray' strategy is overrated and the lack of it has been a red herring for our lack of success. What it really comes down to IMO is using all assets efficiently. Part of that is hitting on high draft picks, but it also includes using capspace effectively, which we've shown no idea how to, trading players at the right time when their value is high before it plummets, etc. If we don't trade Lowry his trade value evaporates for us within 2 years. Either he'll be on an undeserved, maybe unmoveable max contract or he'll have left in UFA. The team is better served trading him early IMO
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:31 PM   #39 (permalink)
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The main problem with Lowry is he's absolutely a win now player

But to call the Raptors a team who should be in win now position is badly misdiagnosing things. Yes, after 5 years out of the playoffs and 2 all out tank seasons, we should be ready to be good, right? But it doesn't work that way. The problem is we have a terrible GM. We are in upcoming cap hell and nobody but Lowry is a legitimate starting caliber player. BC put his eggs into two extremely flawed talents in Demar and Bargnani. Once it's accepted those guys aren't starters, the team just has nothing else proven going for it. Neither Valanciunas or Davis have proven themselves to be more than hustle players yet. The SF position is LOL. Ross is a project. This team has bottom 5 talent and is capped out and has no draft pick this year. This is not a situation you retool into a playoff team, it's one you blow up.

Blame BC. Blame him for totally failing to use capspace effectively. While teams like the Cavaliers and Rockets have used it to stockpile draft picks and assets and then patiently strike at FAs in HOU's case, BC spent all of it on bench players like Kleiza, Amir, Bargs, Derozan, Fields, etc. Blame BC for in all liklihood, refusing to trade for Lowry just for the price of an 8 to 18 fall when Houston was stockpiling picks, eventually trading a more valuable future pick, just because he wanted to sign a 38 year old Nash to save his job instead. Blame BC for taking one of the worst 1st overall picks ever, getting nothing of value in return for his superstar asset in Chris Bosh, for emptying the bank for an overpaid JO. Blame BC for giving Demar and Bargnani a crippling 40-50 million each just for chucking up inefficient shots on a bad team, mainly because they were BC's draft picks and his boys. Blame ownership for creating a culture where GMs are evaluated on how quickly they make the playoffs after getting hired. The result of all this is a team that will likely be out of the playoffs for at least a 7+ year drought, which is an embarrassment. The Raptors got the same treatment JFJ did to the Leafs, the difference is BC is a master of snake oil and working the mic to make it seem like he's not completley out of his element. BC is as bad a GM as Bush was a president and to quote Chris Rock, Bush was as bad at being president as you and I will ever be at anything. When BC leaves if this team wants to make the playoffs before 2018 they need to blow up his mess as soon as possible like the Leafs did JFJ's, start the long process of getting him of his bad contracts and start acting with a plan and vision in regards to assets and team building

Last edited by The MVP of West Hollywood; 12-27-2012 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:39 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Sorry MVP.... but letting Lowry go and then PRAYING that we land Wiggins is NOT "vision". It's insanity.

You may as well buy $100 in lotto tickets, quit your job and hope that you win.
Ya and keeping Lowry, getting late lottery picks is obviously a much better plan for the future! Seriously though I don't think I want Calderon or Lowry in the future I'd prefer we draft a good PG.
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