NBA.com: Raptors hold pieces to put winning culture together
Old 10-16-2013, 12:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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After trading for Rudy Gay in January, the Raptors went 18-18 to close the season and had a starting lineup that was ridiculously good defensively. This wasn't a Kevin Garnett or Chris Paul trade that changed the culture of an entire franchise, but the way the team performed over the final 2 months of the season was something to build on.

The development of second-year center Jonas Valanciunas offers even more promise. After a year of learning the league and a summer of building his body, the 6-11 Lithuanian should be much better on both ends of the floor.

The changing Eastern Conference landscape, meanwhile, presents the Raptors with an opportunity to return to the playoffs for the first time in six years. Just gaining some postseason experience could play a big role in both the growth and psyche of the young players on the roster.

"I don't know how you teach winning by losing," Ujiri said in response to silly questions about the idea of tanking for a shot at Toronto native Andrew Wiggins in next year's Draft. "We have to build a culture of winning in some kind of way."

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Three points

1. While the focus is on defense, Casey believes his team can get better offensively by taking better shots. That means less mid-range jumpers and more threes from the corner. "We're going to emphasize shooting the three," he said, "but we're going to try to dictate what type of three."

2. After the Gay trade, the Raptors starting lineup -- Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan, Gay, Amir Johnson and Valanciunas -- outscored its opponents by 12.9 points per 100 possessions (in 343 minutes). All other Toronto lineups were outscored by 5.6 points per 100 possessions. So the play of bench additions D.J. Augustin, Austin Daye, Tyler Hansbrough and Steve Novak will be critical. Augustin and Hansbrough were available because Indiana was looking to upgrade its own bench.

3. After sharing time with Jose Calderon early last season, Lowry should be more comfortable as the only starting-caliber point guard from the get-go. "More important than his play and his numbers is his positive leadership," Casey said. "I don't want to lose the Kyle personality. I want the tough, ornery point guard that he is, which makes him the player that he is."
Raptors hold pieces to put winning culture together | NBA.com
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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"I don't know how you teach winning by losing," Ujiri said in response to silly questions about the idea of tanking for a shot at Toronto native Andrew Wiggins in next year's Draft. "We have to build a culture of winning in some kind of way."
Finally.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Finally.
let's send him to a crash course to golden state who tanked in the most blatant way two seasons ago and ended up with barnes and followed that losing experience by a monster season.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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let's send him to a crash course to golden state who tanked in the most blatant way two seasons ago and ended up with barnes and followed that losing experience by a monster season.
Blatantly tanked and got the #7 pick, who is now their 4th-5th best player. They started winning but it wasn't because they tanked and it wasn't because of Barnes.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Finally.
Cuz GMs never lie and always are truthful
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's simple. Trade for another losing teams pick and get on with building a winning culture.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Cuz GMs never lie and always are truthful
What are you suggesting is the lie there? You think that Masai has no interest in developing a winning culture?

Sounds like you just want to cherry pick what you want to hear, and call that being realistic.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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What are you suggesting is the lie there? You think that Masai has no interest in developing a winning culture?

Sounds like you just want to cherry pick what you want to hear, and call that being realistic.
GMs may say whatever the f**k they want to say and may do a 180. Just saying...
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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GMs may say whatever the f**k they want to say and may do a 180. Just saying...
That's not a lie though, to be clear, and fair to GMs. I think it's a bit late for him to do a 180 in this case. He's going to try to change the culture, assess what happens, and go from there. If he valued the draft over establishing a better culture, then he would have been in more of a rush to tear things down.

All in all he's been pretty honest and up front about what he and the team faces, and all the conditions laid out remain the same. It's about waiting and seeing, by choice and by necessity, and trying to make the most of the situation over the next couple of years. The man that sold bs regularly is gone.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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That's not a lie though, to be clear, and fair to GMs. I think it's a bit late for him to do a 180 in this case. He's going to try to change the culture, assess what happens, and go from there. If he valued the draft over establishing a better culture, then he would have been in more of a rush to tear things down.

All in all he's been pretty honest and up front about what he and the team faces, and all the conditions laid out remain the same. It's about waiting and seeing, by choice and by necessity, and trying to make the most of the situation over the next couple of years. The man that sold bs regularly is gone.
Exactly, waiting and seeing, if the team is say, 6-14 he may act on that. There is still a lot of time to do a 180. First 20 games will be key. Also, somebody loves to give me a -1
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Blatantly tanked and got the #7 pick, who is now their 4th-5th best player. They started winning but it wasn't because they tanked and it wasn't because of Barnes.
that's not the point, the point is that losing one season (on purpose or otherwise) has nothing to do with the next season. Furthermore, you don't lose on purpose in order to instill a winning culture. You do it in order to give yourself a better chance to assemble the kind of team that CAN have a winning culture.

Charlotte and Miwaukee have been trying as hard as they can for nearly a decade to win and they're still in the same spot or worse. Miami, OKC, GSW, Memphis, Clippers or the Nets have been lousy for years and years until they got the right players and then have magically established a winning culture.

Yes, you can get the right players without losing on purpose, it's just that it's obviously easier for a team do it if they do lose. And the argument that losing just dooms you is obviously bogus since lots of team made the transition from very bad to very good, sometimes with the addition of a single player, like Phoenix did with Steve Nash.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Exactly, waiting and seeing, if the team is say, 6-14 he may act on that. There is still a lot of time to do a 180. First 20 games will be key. Also, somebody loves to give me a -1
I gave you a + to even it out.

My point is that would not be a 180, but would be consistent with what he has proposed. And the timeframe involved will have as much, if not more to do with the needs and wants of other teams as it will with this team's record after 20 games.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I gave you a + to even it out.

My point is that would not be a 180, but would be consistent with what he has proposed. And the timeframe involved will have as much, if not more to do with the needs and wants of other teams as it will with this team's record after 20 games.
I'm touched.

Exactly so nothing is set in stone ie. he has the time and opportunity to tear down the team or deal 1-3 starters if he sees fit.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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All in all he's been pretty honest and up front about what he and the team faces, and all the conditions laid out remain the same. It's about waiting and seeing, by choice and by necessity, and trying to make the most of the situation over the next couple of years. The man that sold bs regularly is gone.
it's fairly easy to be honest when you remain very generic. Basically, whatever he does in the next few months , he will remain true to his words. He basically declined to answer the burning question, with which I have no problems with - in fact the less he says the better.

Oh yeah, and it's a lot easier to be honest about a team you didn't build and for which nobody holds you accountable yet. He doesn't have to promise playoff success yet, the pressure is not there quite yet - at least for a few more months.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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it's fairly easy to be honest when you remain very generic. Basically, whatever he does in the next few months , he will remain true to his words. He basically declined to answer the burning question, with which I have no problems with - in fact the less he says the better.

Oh yeah, and it's a lot easier to be honest about a team you didn't build and for which nobody holds you accountable yet. He doesn't have to promise playoff success yet, the pressure is not there quite yet - at least for a few more months.
+1

Well said.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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that's not the point, the point is that losing one season (on purpose or otherwise) has nothing to do with the next season. Furthermore, you don't lose on purpose in order to instill a winning culture. You do it in order to give yourself a better chance to assemble the kind of team that CAN have a winning culture.

Charlotte and Miwaukee have been trying as hard as they can for nearly a decade to win and they're still in the same spot or worse. Miami, OKC, GSW, Memphis, Clippers or the Nets have been lousy for years and years until they got the right players and then have magically established a winning culture.

Yes, you can get the right players without losing on purpose, it's just that it's obviously easier for a team do it if they do lose. And the argument that losing just dooms you is obviously bogus since lots of team made the transition from very bad to very good, sometimes with the addition of a single player, like Phoenix did with Steve Nash.
You sound like the scrabble player that passes and plays one or two tiles on too many turns, in the hopes of landing a bingo. Guys that play that way lose a lot.

Miami under Riley did not play that way for years and years. There was a good culture in place there from day one. Charlotte has never had that culture in place, and their talent gets wasted every year. The balance lies in maximizing the talent any team has and building from there, by knowing which players are in fact the right players to move a team forward, and make good trades to get as many of those that suit needs as possible. Those players will have shown both what they are and what they might be able to become with a pretty good degree of certainty. There is very little certainty in players that are drafted, so I'm lost as to how that route is easier to garner the right players.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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let's send him to a crash course to golden state who tanked in the most blatant way two seasons ago and ended up with barnes and followed that losing experience by a monster season.
ya...because barnes absolutely carries that team

lmao


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Old 10-16-2013, 04:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Cuz GMs never lie and always are truthful
Are you suggesting that Masai may have fibbed about his intentions in his statement about a team cant develop a winning culture by losing? Because that is a totally different thing than making decisions based on how the team performs in the first 20 games, and there is no inconsistency between the 2 statements.

Masai I'm sure is responsible for what he says, but he isn't responsible for what you understand.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:53 PM   #19 (permalink)
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a team cant develop a winning culture by losing
Worked well for OKC
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Worked well for OKC
they won't get a ring
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