NBA.COM: Bosh's value tainted by Raptors' defensive issues
Old 03-21-2010, 02:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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With less then four weeks to go in the season and fighting for one of the last two playoff spots in the Eastern Conference, this is not the time for the Raptors to have reverted to the way they were playing in November.

That was an ugly time for Toronto. After 20 games, they were 7-13 and in 11th place in the East. They had a top-five offense, but were allowing 115.2 points per 100 possessions on the other end of the floor, which put their defense on a level somewhere between "atrocious" and "worst ever."

A players-only meeting and a couple of tweaks to their defensive schemes turned things around at that point, and the Raptors won 22 of their 32 games heading into the All-Star break. They didn't exactly turn into the 2008 Celtics, but they were the 18th best defensive team in the league during that stretch, allowing 105.4 points per 100 possessions, good enough to get by with a highly potent offense.

But when the Raptors returned from the break, it was like they were starting the season over again. They won a couple of games over the Nets and Wizards to peak at seven games over .500, comfortably in fifth place in the East. But the cracks showed, and since then, the leaks have sprung.

Over the last 13 games, the Raptors have gone 3-10, and their defense has been just as bad as it was back in November, allowing 114.8 points per 100 possessions. They've slipped back down to eighth place, and if it weren't for injuries to Chicago's Joakim Noah and Derrick Rose, they would probably be lottery bound right now.

A trip to Secaucus on May 18 may still be their destiny. The Raptors are currently 2 games ahead of the Bulls for eighth, but both Noah and Rose made their returns for the Bulls on Saturday and Chicago's remaining schedule is slightly easier (they play the Nets twice more and have just five road games remaining) than Toronto's.

The Raptors' recent struggles will do nothing to quiet any speculation that Chris Bosh will want to leave Toronto this summer via free agency. The All-Star went on a post-game rant after last Saturday's 124-112 loss at Golden State, lamenting his team's inability to practice what they preach.

"For some reason, we just don't like to secure leads and win basketball games," Bosh said. "That's the only thing I can think of. We come out here, we talk about it. We have a billion meetings, but we can talk all we want. Unless we do something about it really doesn't matter."

Grit and toughness are certainly lacking in Toronto. A starting lineup of Jose Calderon, DeMar DeRozan, Hedo Turkoglu, Bosh and Andrea Bargnani just doesn't have the collective DNA to be a very good defensive team. And as Bosh weighs his options this summer, he might come to the realization that, as a finesse power forward, he's a better fit with a team that isn't so soft at the other four positions.


At this point, the Raptors have pretty much clinched the Worst Defensive Team in the League title for the 2009-10 season. The question is: Does that devalue Bosh in the free agent market? Can he be nearly on the same level as LeBron James and Dwyane Wade if he can't make an impact on both ends of the floor?

Bosh may have the best numbers of any power forward in the league, but he's not nearly the defensive anchor that Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan are, even though he just celebrated his 26th birthday and those two are both in the twilight of their careers.

The Raptors ranked 12th defensively in 2006-07, when they won the franchise's only division title. So it's not like Bosh has never been on a good defensive team. This may just be a case of an average defender being surrounded by a bunch of really bad ones. And with so many teams clearing cap space in order to make a free agency splash this summer, someone is going to give Bosh a max contract no matter how bad the Raptors have been defensively this season.

They'll just have to make sure that they have the right system and the right players around him. And they can look at this season's Raptors for an example of what doesn't work.
NBA.com: Bosh's value tainted by Raptors' defensive issues
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Old 03-21-2010, 03:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Bargnani's value is also tainted by this team...
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Old 03-21-2010, 03:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Urgh. so frustrating that we're a top 10 team offensively
Looking at each teams sched, The playoff picture doesn't look like it's changing. Rose and Noah are back Sat I believe and if we keep playing at this pace we're out of the playoffs

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Old 03-21-2010, 04:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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how about....Raptor's defense tainted by Bosh's defensive issues....

maybe the guy should watch some games....we are not a good defensive team, no arguing that...but Bosh is not a great defender buy any standard....he does not help the case....
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It could very well work both ways.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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orlando last year was the best defensive team in the league, and had turkoglu and lewis (two mediocre defenders), a rookie at SG and an undersized PG who is a competent, but never considered a great defender.

A good coach and an anchor inside goes a long way. Bosh is what it is, could be a great piece on a strong defensive team like Orlando or the Lakers - he would look a lot better. But on this team, his weaknesses on D can't be masked, in fact we expect him to actually carry the team on D, and that's an absurd demand.

Last season some people tried to defend him by saying he doesn't defend well because he needs to conserve his energy for offense, as we didn't have a ton of weapons. But his year should clearly show that the plain truth is that Bosh doesn't want to, or can't be a good defender.

But he's such a great offensive player and rebounder, that it won't matter. Many teams can easily mask him, because he's not a pylon or anything. Teams that need him for his offense, and will only ask of him on D to hold his ground, will not care one bit about his defense.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:10 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by A00715890 View Post
how about....Raptor's defense tainted by Bosh's defensive issues....

maybe the guy should watch some games....we are not a good defensive team, no arguing that...but Bosh is not a great defender buy any standard....he does not help the case....

I saw this on NBA.com, and I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like Bosh has nothing to do with the horrible defence. lol His man out rebounds him more than anything.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
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This team just need Bosh to be like his old self before he went down; NJ game he was kinda back I think about 100% percent; he was playing kinda well in the OKC though we lost badly; maybe the win against Atlanta gave back him his confident back before he went down and I hope he's really back and at 100%
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Oddly enough, before the injury to Bosh, this team was playing a good stretch where they were in the top half of the league defensively. So Bosh can defend, obviously. And he obviously carried the team on defense. He needs to be able to contribute there over the course of a full season though - that is the lingering issue.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I really have not seen a lot of effort from Bosh since the all-star break which makes me wonder if this is on purpose and that he wants to leave Toronto.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:13 AM   #11 (permalink)
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It can't be all on Bosh, where the hell was Hedo this whole year. No one expected him to go A-Wall
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I really have not seen a lot of effort from Bosh since the all-star break which makes me wonder if this is on purpose and that he wants to leave Toronto.
He did get injured the first game out of the All-Star game. He missed two to three weeks and is slowly getting back to form. Once the Raps lost its best players, the soft pschye/mentality of the team crumbled under the presurre.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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He did get injured the first game out of the All-Star game. He missed two to three weeks and is slowly getting back to form. Once the Raps lost its best players, the soft pschye/mentality of the team crumbled under the presurre.
Actually, that's Bullshit. We went 3-4 without Bosh. Our record with him back in the lineup is alot worse, 2-7 if i'm not mistaken.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
hey babie you with the C-sectoin and no kids. I know DINO he will get us in :D

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This is what it means to have a good agent. Most of these articles are stirred up by agency PR people. This is the ugly side of any sport industry especially come FA time.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Actually, that's Bullshit. We went 3-4 without Bosh. Our record with him back in the lineup is alot worse, 2-7 if i'm not mistaken.
And 2 of those games were AT HOME against arguably the 2 worst teams in the league (WAS, NJ).

We just came off of a WC road trip where and played a bunch of athletic teams with stellar guard play that traditionally eat us alive.

Please don't try to insinuate that we've been worse with Bosh BECAUSE of Bosh.

If anyone's getting the blame for these losses it's Bargs and Hedo.... $20/yr of wasted space.

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Old 03-22-2010, 02:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I don't care about Hedo, he has fuked the dog all year long and Bargs has been Mr. Inconsistent, they haven't changed, Bosh has. Before the all-star break he played like an all-star since then he hasn't, except against the worst team in the NBA.
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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And 2 of those games were AT HOME against arguably the 2 worst teams in the league (WAS, NJ).

We just came off of a WC road trip where and played a bunch of athletic teams with stellar guard play that traditionally eat us alive.

Please don't try to insinuate that we've worse with Bosh BECAUSE of Bosh.

If anyone's getting the blame for these losses it's Bargs and Hedo.... $20/yr of wasted space.
I'm not insinuating that at all. That's not what i meant. I was just reacting to someone who said our fragil mental toughness/psyche fell apart (crumbled under the pressure as he said) when Bosh went down. All i was saying is we did ok, granted against not so good teams. But still, 3-4 was better then i expected.
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm not insinuating that at all. That's not what i meant. I was just reacting to someone who said our fragil mental toughness/psyche fell apart (crumbled under the pressure as he said) when Bosh went down. All i was saying is we did ok, granted against not so good teams. But still, 3-4 was better then i expected.
Before the All-Star, Bosh was a top 10 player in the league. When our best player went down and hasn't reached his previous from, the rest of the players have faultered when asked to step up to the plate. Getting blown out by OKC and Portland at home, going 0 for 4 on the West Coast Trip, home loss to Philly, blowout by Houston. Its ugly. For us to remain competitive , Bosh has play like a Top Ten Player in this league. Yes, the mental toghness/psyche of this team is weak which explains the downfall of this team when Bosh has not returned to form. How does the Celtics continue to win when one or two of the Big Three goes down, when Orlando continued to win when Carter & Lewis missed the majority of the beginning of the season, when the Lakers lose Gasol & Bynum for big chunks of the season.
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I don't care about Hedo, he has fuked the dog all year long and Bargs has been Mr. Inconsistent, they haven't changed, Bosh has. Before the all-star break he played like an all-star since then he hasn't, except against the worst team in the NBA.
Bosh was 100% healthy before the all-star break.... and got injured shortly after it.

Pretty much explains it.

The thing that drives me crazy is that it's the same damn thing year after year.... pray to God that Bosh can play 40 min/gm and dominate on both ends for 82 games so we can win.

One player CANNOT lead your team anywhere (unless he's Lebron).

He needs help.... and his "help" has failed him badly. Yet again.
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:35 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Bosh was 100% healthy before the all-star break.... and got injured shortly after it.

Pretty much explains it.

The thing that drives me crazy is that it's the same damn thing year after year.... pray to God that Bosh can play 40 min/gm and dominate on both ends for 82 games so we can win.

One player CANNOT lead your team anywhere (unless he's Lebron).

He needs help.... and his "help" has failed him badly. Yet again.
Bosh's injury had nothing to do with playing time. Twisting an ankle can happen in any game, to any player. More Raptors players had one this season. Just one of those things.

And since you mentioned "before the AS break" ... the team was playing really well then. And it wasn't a one man show.
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